The Answer to the Age Old Question...

HappyAssassin

Diabloii.Net Member
That sounds great, but compiling the data would be really hard. Such attempts at gathering generally turn into heated debates, since people are never satisfied with the skill level of the players who become "champions" for their class. People always say they can do better. Just determining who was better at killing a necro, BvC or WWsin, because a huge debate, mostly because the skill levels of the necros involved were an issue.

To get good %s, you'd need to have all the best players of a class duel each other, then have the best fight to 10 and take the %s for there. Even with this, it's flawed, because the best at say, BvC vs BvC (a kinda ridiculus fight anyway) isnt necessarily the best at BvC vs All. As for the "average" of a class, not only is there a big discrepency (the average Ghost is a lot better than the average Smiter, simply because there are 100x more smiters and most of them are bad), but you would generally have a decent pubby level dueler as your standard, which no one would consider representative of how good a class is.
 

ATTACKYOU

Banned
Liquid_Evil said:
What is the best PvP character?

Firstly, understand that no one character class can ever be the “bestâ€, as that implies it surpasses *all* others. This cannot be the case as every character CAN be beaten.

When determining the best and top PvP characters for this experiment, we need to know how to define “bestâ€. For our purposes, we will assume that it means, “The character that can consistently beat most other classes and character variantsâ€.

I polled about 20 people that were to assume **that standard PvP rules were enforced** (no Teleport, no potions/shrines/mercs, no slow gear, no over-absorbing, etc…) I asked them to rank their top five choices based on their own dueling experiences. From their responses I have created a list of the top 10 ranked characters based on averaging the placings and tallying the actual votes for each character. The results were very interesting.

1) Bone Necromancer
2) Whirlwind Barb
3) Blizzard Sorceress
4) Vindicator/Templar Paladin
5) Trapper Assassin

6) Wind Druid
7) Fury/Rabies Druid
8) Blessed Hammer Paladin
9) Bow Amazon
10) Whirlwind Assassin

#1 Bone Necromancers- This was no shocker with every person except two putting this class somewhere in their top 5 list. This is a class that casts unresistable, homing missiles averaging about 550+ damage a pop. That is enough damage to kill most characters in 2-3 hits. They can wreak havoc on melee chars by casting Bone Walls between themselves and their attackers and absorbing 700+ physical damage via Bone Armor. Definitely a tough nut to crack with 1.10 synergies.

“…Again minions to distract home attacks. Clay Golem has Slow.â€
“…has a MEAN attackâ€


#2 Whirlwind Barbarians- This, to me, was a very surprising number 2 choice. However, I can see the advantages of this class. Any character capable of having over 4K life, 15+ AR, and 15K Defense is a force to be reckoned with. Whirlwind is arguably the best melee skill in D2 existence; hitting quickly, having big damage, being uninterruptible, and making it hard for others to hit back with its movement.

“Whirlwind can be extremely hard for many melee characters to get in close to, can do some massive damage, and hits very often. An anti caster can easily get a range 5 spear or polearm and take out casters from-afar...â€


#3 Blizzard Sorceresses- Even without using Teleport, she still ranks high. Capable of dishing out ungodly (6000+) amounts of cold damage. Couple that to her high level Cold Mastery and most opponents have to stack well over 150 extra cold resists to even stand a chance. Although Blizzard is timered, it is a very wide spread skill.

“Opponents have to rearrange so much gear to even try and combat them…â€
“…so tempting to try and overabsorbâ€


#4 Vindicator/Templar (V/T) [FoH + Smite]
Fist of the heavens name locks, does mighty lightning damage, and is easily played passively with. Conviction can significantly lower the chances of anyone resisting it. Then you have one of the mightiest melee skills in the game - Smite. It can't be blocked and does very nice damage.

“V/T - Versatile and dangerous to most classes.â€
“If you don’t stack lightning resists you will die…periodâ€


#5 Trapper- Lightning and Fire traps both ranked high. This is a popular character as its ability to effortlessly stunlock opponents with traps and Mindblast is unmatched. Also rolls with a hugely effective minion, the Shadow Master, capable of killing opponents by herself.

“….with an array of decent traps can trap opponents even off screenâ€
“…need so much FHR and resists to even have a chance…â€



This list is a good representation of what people in this community find hard to duel effectively and although it doesn’t agree with my personal list to the tee, it comes close in most areas. There are however, many other factors other than character build that determine duel outcomes, some being: Character Level, Items/Gear, Player Skill and Experience, and Computer/Internet Speed. If these other areas aren’t at acceptable levels, the best character in the world won’t win a duel for you. Like I said, there can never be a “best†PvP character but I hope this gives you some idea as to which are the most threatening to most people.

Remember when replying to this post that this is just a general sampling taken from a small pool of duelers. It is just an interesting block of information that could influence newer players that are interested in participating in mannered duels. This is also based on the notion that general guidelines are enforced. In short, this is not applicable to pubbies.
sry but ure wrong melee druit beat all of those
 

SicHalo

Diabloii.Net Member
i think WW sin would do very well in a no tele situation and even builds like a kicke would become more viable vs caster duelers.

Hammer certainly will do well in an enviroment like this due to the power of high dmg and desync, charge+vigor. or mage.

With no tele certain builds have huge chances like fury/rabies druids.

However i still think this is irrelevant unless u play EP or play for certain leagues but most duelers play pub type duels and items like abs and enigma( tele) have to be taken into consideration and will definetly change the order on that list.
 

stoutewolf

Diabloii.Net Member
Phyrexial said:
- Fury/Rabies again is a joke against any sort of ranged, especially one that can slow them down like a necro. Unless they are careless with minion use or are really really slow.
I guess thats why I win 80% of my duels vs sorcs?
 

pedu

Diabloii.Net Member
I was JUST about to comment on the same quote as stoute, but then i saw the date. :laugh:
But a table like that would be nice. Even if it would be a rough one. Even if its heavily flawed, it only produces many intresting discussions like "bvc beaten 5-2 by hammer!!!" topics. And we all like those dont we? :laugh:

Anyways, how about posting a poll, through pms, or someone make a nice webpage or something. And then we vote. Or something.

Then the % numbers dont have to be right on, as in a xxx beats an yyy 76.4% of the time. More like 0/25/50/75/100

Then the rules... both (imaginary) players are equally skilled with the char and equally skilled in dueling against the other char. ping/lag/whatever are the same. Both feel the same, theyre as concentrated, not sleepy. etc etc.
Theese all thing must be taken in account.
 

Phyrexial

Diabloii.Net Member
stoutewolf said:
I guess thats why I win 80% of my duels vs sorcs?
Without alot of resist/sorb gear, I don't see any Wolf Druid beating an equivalent sorc. I would question the skill of the sorcs you duel but perhaps you know some tricks that I don't. Still, 80% of sorcs isn't too much to brag about if you are dueling in your average public games. I've got a stockpile of lvl 70+ sorc ears on my lvl 35 kicker which in no way implies that 35 kicker > 70+ sorc. People who bring high levels to low duel games just tend to suck miserably.

That said, kudos to you for making an underdog build work.
 

Liquid_Evil

Diabloii.Net Member
People like HappyAssassin and pedu *get* what I was meaning with the table and understand the basic concept. I'm not saying this won't be difficult but I sure don't need the "sry but ure wrong" or "my build is better than 80% of ..." crap. I don't want to hear it, I'm looking for objective reviews of characters that base the outcomes of the average match on both players having equal skill, equal ping, and similar wealth. I want an average representation of character classes. I'm looking for ideas on how we would best be able to get this table as my computer/webpage skills are severely lacking for something like this. Anyone up for something like this?

Also, realize that this thread is several months old and that the newest post is at the bottom of page 2.
 

stoutewolf

Diabloii.Net Member
Phyrexial said:
Without alot of resist/sorb gear, I don't see any Wolf Druid beating an equivalent sorc. I would question the skill of the sorcs you duel but perhaps you know some tricks that I don't. Still, 80% of sorcs isn't too much to brag about if you are dueling in your average public games. I've got a stockpile of lvl 70+ sorc ears on my lvl 35 kicker which in no way implies that 35 kicker > 70+ sorc. People who bring high levels to low duel games just tend to suck miserably.

That said, kudos to you for making an underdog build work.
120+ Frw, 25k Rabies, predicting where they tele(most morons tele in a pattern)
playing defensively, + fully charged Feral Ball= dead sorc.
 
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