The 20 pts question: HS or Defiance?

[xts3]

The 20 pts question: HS or Defiance?

I was wondering... after reading over different guides and some of them suggesting sinking all the points into holyshield. Isn't it better to sink them into defiance (for the syngergy) then make up the lack of points in holyshield with +skill equipment because you end up getting +6-8 (or more if you have grand charms) so that would be level 7-9 holyshield with only *one point* invested in it to get the bonuses from +skill equipment, you sacrifice a few % in block but wouldn't the increased AR/decent shield/dex and defiance syngergy bonus 20x15% defiance bonus to holyshield, +6 HS from +skill equipment x 15% holyshield make up for it? Seems to me the recommendation should be for defiance if one is going to use +skill equipment.

 

[iMMoRtaL_kiiNg]

They both add 15% def per lvl so your better off putting points in holy shield for the chance to block and longer duration

 

[Koop]

Yeah but if you have a ton of + skills then you put the put the points into defiance. The reasoning is that +skills dont work as a synergy, so if you pump defiance and let + skills raise holy shield then your in buisness.

 

[iMMoRtaL_kiiNg]

Ahhh i get it. Thanks a lot for that dude

 

[Loboleal]

Yeah but if you have a ton of + skills then you put the put the points into defiance. The reasoning is that +skills dont work as a synergy, so if you pump defiance and let + skills raise holy shield then your in buisness.

In this case, it doesn't matter where you place points. Both skills give +15%ED and due to the fact that +skill don´t work with synergies, as you said, you'll get the same +%ED. You can see it with an example:
20 skill points to spread between HS/Defiance and +10 to skills

Case 1:
1 HS (11 with +skills)
19 Defiance
Total enhanced defense: 11*15 + 19*15 = (11+19)*15 = 30*15 = 450

Case 2:
20 HS (30 with +skills)
0 Defiance
Total enhanced defense: 30*15 + 0*15 = (30+0)*15 = 30*15 = 450

Case 3:
10 HS (20 with +skills)
10 Defiance
Total enhanced defense: 20*15 + 10*15 = (20+10)*15 = 30*15 = 450

As you can see, it doesn't matter. So well, its better to put all 20 points in HS for longer duration and more CTB. That is the reason why all guides advice to place your skills in HS.

 

[xts3]

In this case, it doesn't matter where you place points. Both skills give +15%ED and due to the fact that +skill don´t work with synergies, as you said, you'll get the same +%ED. You can see it with an example:
20 skill points to spread between HS/Defiance and +10 to skills

Case 1:
1 HS (11 with +skills)
19 Defiance
Total enhanced defense: 11*15 + 19*15 = (11+19)*15 = 30*15 = 450

Case 2:
20 HS (30 with +skills)
0 Defiance
Total enhanced defense: 30*15 + 0*15 = (30+0)*15 = 30*15 = 450

Case 3:
10 HS (20 with +skills)
10 Defiance
Total enhanced defense: 20*15 + 10*15 = (20+10)*15 = 30*15 = 450

As you can see, it doesn't matter. So well, its better to put all 20 points in HS for longer duration and more CTB. That is the reason why all guides advice to place your skills in HS.

I think it boils down to personal preference and the build you're playing. If you play a lot in multiplayer games with other paladins /w complementary skills its probably better to go with defiance if you dont mind 10% less block and less duration (duration is fine @ lv4-5 IMHO). Plus you can stack holyshield and defiance. HS at LVL5 gives 25% block, at slvl 20 it gives 35% thats 15 points for a measily 10% increase and an ability which you can only use on yourself. With + skills adding more but if you go all the way to level 20 you have more then enough block anyway at that level (20) it's 35%. What is the extra+skill buying you other then duration since the extra block % is wasted especially since you need dex anyway for item req's and hit %?

Also does anyone have a link to the skill charts (for all classes) that are expanded beyond SLVL20?

 

[Loboleal]

I think it boils down to personal preference and the build you're playing. If you play a lot in multiplayer games its probably better to go with defiance if you dont mind 10% less block and less duration (duration is fine @ lv4-5 IMHO). Plus you can stack holyshield and defiance. HS at LVL5 gives 25% block, at slvl 20 it gives 35% thats 15 points for a measily 10% increase and an ability which you can only use on yourself. With + skills adding more but if you go all the way to level 20 you have more then enough block anyway at that level (20) it's 35%. What is the extra+skill buying you other then duration since the extra block % is wasted especially since you need dex anyway for item req's and hit %?

Believe me, you are not going to go with Defiance aura in multiplayer games. You can use a merc for that. Obviously, its a matter of taste how many points you put in each skill, but if you give me 20 points and only those 2 options, the optimum way is 20 to HS.
Another different discusion would be if you add some more options to spread those 20 points because the optimum way would depend on many more things.

 

[xts3]

Believe me, you are not going to go with Defiance aura in multiplayer games. You can use a merc for that. Obviously, its a matter of taste how many points you put in each skill, but if you give me 20 points and only those 2 options, the optimum way is 20 to HS.
Another different discusion would be if you add some more options to spread those 20 points because the optimum way would depend on many more things.

And I was thinking multiplayer games with other paladins /w complimentary auras, I should have been more specific.

I still would like to know if the mercs defiance is capped at a certain level or if it goes up with the mercs level. Otherwise the mercs aura isn't that great if its capped or permanently stuck at some low level.

This is why would like to know if the mercs defiance is capped at a certain level or if it goes up with the mercs level. Otherwise it renders investing points in defiance redundant.

 

[Loboleal]

And I was thinking multiplayer games with other paladins /w complimentary auras, I should have been more specific.

I still would like to know if the mercs defiance is capped at a certain level or if it goes up with the mercs level. Otherwise the mercs aura isn't that great if its capped or permanently stuck at some low level.

It's capped to some level (15-19 I can't remember), and it doesn't go straightly with merc's level.
If you pump you Defiance aura, it will be better than your merc's one, of course, but I don't know if it worth those skill points. It's up to you to decide.