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The “Size Matters†Tournament - IDEA

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by mwille, May 17, 2008.

  1. mwille

    mwille IncGamers Member

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    The “Size Matters†Tournament - IDEA

    I’m sure everyone has wondered how the same piece of armor can perfectly fit both the bulky barbarian & the petite sorceress (not to mention the changing shape). Well, here is a chance to play in a world where everything doesn’t fit everyone. Each character will have to declare their size (Small, Medium, Large, X-Large) at the beginning of the tourney which will affect both your equipment & skills.

    Equipment
    Most items will be sized & you will be allowed to only wear/use those items matching your character’s size. The last digit of the listed defense on armor (body, helm, gloves, boots, & belt) will determine what “size†it is, as listed below.
    Small = 0,1,2
    Medium = 2,3,4
    Large = 5,6,7
    X-Large = 7,8,9
    Note: There exist certain special items that will magically change size as you level up (+def/clvl). So if they don’t fit when you find one, you may want to store them in your stash until they do. However, when you level up again & if it no longer fits, you must remove it (storing it for later if you wish). There are also 2 ways to change an item’s size. You can socket a +def jewel in body armor & helms, & Anya will custom fit any item for you when she personalizes it (meaning that personalized items are always allowed).

    Any weapons & shields are allowed since they are carried & not worn, making sizes irrelevant.

    Although the same theory applies to charms, their naturally varying sizes fit in quite nicely with the theme. So, you are only allowed to carry charms that match your character’s “sizeâ€. Since the so-called large charm in the game is actually the medium size, here’s how they are assigned.
    Small = small charms (1x1)
    Medium = large charms (1x2)
    Large = large charms (1x2)
    X-Large = grand charms (1x3)

    The game uses 5 random graphics for rings & 3 for amulets, so I could assign sizes to each of them. However, I think it would be much easier to just pick your favorite graphic for each to serve as your “size†& only be allowed to use the rings/amulets with that particular graphic. (Once again, size doesn’t really matter for amulets, but it goes along with the theme.)
    Questions: Should the graphic be the same for each ring, or allow different “sizes†for each hand? Should you have to choose the graphic for rings & amulets before you find one, or should it be that once you find one your size (when you start wearing it), that will be the graphic you have to continue to use? I’m leaning toward the latter. How long would you go without jewelry in hopes of finding the perfect one to start using?

    There are no other sizing restrictions for items that are not listed above, such as gems or potions.

    Skills
    A single point may be placed in any skill, even if it isn’t a prerequisite. However, the number & quality of skills you are allowed to USE will be determined by your character’s “size†as shown in the table below. By “useâ€, I mean to have it assigned to one of the mouse buttons. So, 1-pt passive skills are like a bonus. The quality of a skill (Q#) means a skill that will have that # of points placed in it (if you live long enough).

    Code:
    [b][u]
    Char Size   Q5  Q10  Q15  Q20  #Skills  Max-Pts[/u][/b]
    Small        1   2    3    0      6       70
    Medium       1   1    2    1      5       65
    Large        0   1    1    2      4       65
    X-Large      0   0    0    3      3       60
    
    Once you have all of your skills maxed at the levels listed above for your size, you may place any future points in any of the skills NOT being used. You will still not be able to use those other skills, but they will be useful for synergies, passives, & masteries. For example, a medium-sized character will choose 5 skills to use & spend a total of 65 points in those skills (1 with 5pts, 1 with 10pts, 2 with 15pts, & 1 with 20pts). It doesn’t matter how or in what order you choose to build up your skills as long as you don’t go over the maximum allowed for your “sizeâ€.

    Attributes
    No restrictions.

    Mercs
    Although the 4 types of mercs could be assigned to the 4 “sizesâ€, I don’t think that would follow the spirit of the tourney. So, any merc is allowed. However, you must hire one that matches your “size†so that you can share equipment. This means they will have to follow the same sizing restrictions that you do for their armor & helm.

    I’m guessing all the “normal†tourney rules would work, along with the standard scoring system (WP + Quests - Level). The thing is that I don’t know if I could host this properly, so anyone should feel free to put finishing touches on it. I may consider finalizing & posting it myself, but I know there are several tourneys already in progress. So, I don’t even know when a good time would be to start it. I just get these ideas & can’t quit thinking about them until I get it written down.
     
  2. Merlin The Wizzard

    Merlin The Wizzard IncGamers Member

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    Re: The “Size Matters†Tournament - IDEA

    Nice idea. Very interesting concept... Some suggestions
    - Rather then go with the 'last digit on the defense' , go with durability. Each armor/weapon will have a different durability. You could still easily wind up with a sorceress wearing a full plate mail, even if she chose small, because it has a defense of 112 or something akin to that.
    - More true to the spirit of the tourney would be if small characters could only wear the lighter items, while the corresponding larger classes could wear more.
    Let's say : Small - Only Leather type armors.
    Medium - All armor up and including breastplate.
    LArge - All armor up and including gothic plate.
    X-Large - All armor.

    This list could be expanded for weapons etc. also. To balance things out, you could make some attribute changes -
    Small - no restrictions.
    Medium - 1 Str point each lvl.
    LArge - 3 Str point each lvl.
    X-Large - 4 Str point each lvl.

    Just my two cents.

    You say that weapons etc. don't matter, since you carry them rather then wear them. I'd beg to differ... It takes some serious condition to wield and use some of the more heavy weapons in the list (and not just in the game... try swinging a maul around once, or wield a great sword.)
    And armor often/always plays second fiddle to weapons. The smart money then says that the biggest game impact would lie in restricting the weapons as well.
     
  3. rickcarson

    rickcarson IncGamers Member

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    Re: The “Size Matters†Tournament - IDEA

    Other semi-random suggestions:

    Enforce a certain number of points into Strength per level up
    Small - 0-1
    Medium - 1-2
    Large - 2-3
    X -Large - 3-4
    // looks at Merlin's post more carefully and smacks self: D'oh!
    // mutters something about great minds thinking alike

    Restrict reruns based on size
    Small - rerun any
    Medium - rerun end bosses and countess
    Large - rerun end bosses up to N times
    X-Large - no reruns

    Players setting
    Small 1-3
    Medium 3-5
    Large 5-7
    X-Large 7-8

    For shields I suggest that Bucklers shouldn't be able to be used by X-Large since they are too big and the shield is too small...?

    With respect to Merlin's suggestion about armour sizes, I would say that (for instance) Gothic Plate can be made in both small or large sizes, but a large person will not fit into a suit of armour made for a small person, and vice versa. One imagines that breastplates have a similar limitation, though perhaps on a gender basis...
     
  4. mwille

    mwille IncGamers Member

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    Re: The “Size Matters†Tournament - IDEA

    Thanks for the suggestions. My initial thoughts were based on just the size of armor that the characters wear not how strong they were, meaning that all armor would come in 4 sizes (similar to clothing in the real world). What I meant by size not affecting weapons is that it's possible to have a small dynamo that can lift many times their weight or a weak giant that can barely carry an axe. I guess that by adding a strength restriction to the attributes of the 4 sizes would in turn limit the weapons they could use.

    Durability was my first thought on "sizing" items, but it constantly changes. And the max durablility of items is a set value for each base item unlike defense which has a range of values (allowing for more sizes of each item).
     
  5. skoolbus

    skoolbus IncGamers Member

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    Re: The “Size Matters†Tournament - IDEA

    I kind of like the idea of making you use your stat points a certain way depending on your size.

    @rick, it seems that you really shaft the X-large by making them pump almost all strength, no reruns, and must play on p7 or p8. I guess the p8 wouldn't be much of an issue in norm, but if you make it to hell (difficult with putting 1 point in vita max each level) I doubt any of the XL's would last very long. I do like the idea of making these restrictions, but maybe change them up a little bit (perhaps the reruns)?

    I don't know about rings, I think it would be fine restricting them, but I have a feeling people will find a great ring and forget they can't equip it in their excitement or something (but maybe they won't). I say choose at the beginning, else people will go ringless well into NM when you can get lots of good ones. Same thing with ammys. Also, I'd say same size, most peoples hands are the same size, so the rings should be too.

    I think it would be cool to restrict weapons based on size. I think a good way of doing it might be based on the strength needed to wield it. Have 3 tiers because weapons are normal, excep, and elite. Maybe something like
    Code:
    size   norm    excep   elite
    S      0-40     0-60    0-70
    M      10-50   50-70   70-85
    L      20-60   60-80   80-110
    XL     30+     80+     130+
    I didn't actually think about these, you'd have to find something that works. Just a suggestion though.

    From what I can see, XL definately has a great advantage later in the game, and small has the advantage early, but I actually think that quite intriguing. It will be interesting to see what everyone picks.

    In terms of hosting a tournament, if you have really clear rules to start with, you shouldn't get many questions. From what I can see now, you've done a fine job coming up with clear rules. Once the tourney starts, there isn't much work to do, just answer peoples questions as they come up, and figure out penalties for people that break the rules (accidently, purposely shouldn't be allowed).

    Great idea for a tourney though!:thumbsup:
     
  6. Hoop76

    Hoop76 IncGamers Member

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    Re: The “Size Matters†Tournament - IDEA

    I like the way you got it set up. I'd probably join even though i got plenty of tournament chars to play. One more wont hurt.
     
  7. Colorless Green

    Colorless Green IncGamers Member

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    Re: The “Size Matters†Tournament - IDEA

    While it seems like you're going more towards allowing every type, but just randomly disallowing certain pieces of any given type, you should keep in mind that armor has light/medium/heavy sizes defined by the game (so do shields for that matter). It might make sense to require various sizes to wear their equivalent weights. Also, heavier armor carries a frw penalty, which would force a small-but-quick and large-but-slow factor.

    This is interesting enough that I might wind up joining even though I'm already participating in a different tourney.

    -CG
     
  8. mwille

    mwille IncGamers Member

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    Re: The “Size Matters†Tournament - IDEA

    Ok, thanks again for the input. I think I came up with a way to limit weapons & shields in the same manner as the charms, based on how much space they take up in your inventory. Rerunning Act Bosses will be allowed (but not required?) until they drop something in your size. The same will go for The Countess but will be based on the quality of the rune she drops. (I’ll use the clvl of the runes instead of names to hopefully make it easier to tell if it is your “sizeâ€.) The following table shows what size weapon/shield each size character may use & the quality of runes for Normal Countess & NM/Hell Countess. (I based the range of runes on the ones that have better than 1:100 chance to drop, as shown by ATMA.)
    Code:
    [b][u]
    Char Size     Weapons    Shields  Runes (NM/H)[/u][/b]
    Small       1x1,1x2,1x3    2x2    11-13 (11-17)
    Medium      1x2,1x3,2x3    2x3    13-15 (15-25)
    Large       1x3,2x3,1x4    2x3    15-17 (17-29)
    X-Large     2x3,1x4,2x4    2x4    15-19 (23-35)
    
    Just to include everything, I guess it makes sense to restrict the points placed into strength for the different sizes (without going overboard). So, here is how I propose points to be spent in strength each level up: S(0-2), M(1-2), L(1-3), XL(2+), with remaining points going wherever you want.

    Is this getting too complicated? Simple is usually better, but now that you guys brought up these ideas, I like how they fit in.
     

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