Tesladin or Frost Zealot?
- Thread starter Chaplain
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Well if you're talking PvM each one owns really decently until hell then they run into major problems (Especially if solo'ing) without the right equipment. I wouldn't put too much stock in the guides listed by these guys since the guys listing them are *rich* or item wealthy. I've been searching for an UM rune for the crescent moon in the guide for ages, on ladder its friggin expensive I haven't found anything good enough to trade for it and I've been playing my Frosty for a while now.
The first act in hell if you're soloing will have you frustrated unless you have +skil equip and max resist and a decent amount of life (at least 180+ vitality, probably ~700+ hitpoints), dont underestimate leech if you can get your hands on tal-rashas and socket a rare or unique life stealing weapon with an AMN or two (since your a frosty/tesladin) it will keep you alive vs. cold/lightning immune demons (which there are a lot of) when you switch to fantaticism if you're soloing (if you chose to spend 3 points to put the 1 point in FNT). You'll fight champions and uniques every... damn... step which may get frustrating solo, or without good support team of characters that can lower their resists.
I've maxed both Holy freeze and its synergy salvation if you play solo a lot it will be rough going without a good physical damage merc /w his resists maxed. I'm level 76 and I'm only doing roughly ~1200-1600 damage /w every necessary skill maxed (I'm +skill item/charm poor, plus I have an awesome resists shield that I refuse to give up for a +skill shield with crap resist).
Also you'll have to stick a decent amount of skillpoints in zeal or you wont be hitting much (unless you find a nice weap/ignore target defence) if you're going to be item/runeword poor for a good amount of time. I'm using fools ancient sword of evisceration on the non-cold immunes in hell (since most of your damage comes from Freeze+vengeance or freeze+zeal). The best part (I think) about it is if you die you can still kill weaker monsters around your dead body with 1000+ damage on your hands alone haha!
The AR on the fools is godly, combined with a rare helm with the visionary property and ur set @90+ hitrate at least for most regular monsters and probably champions and uniques with the exception of act bosses.
Note that AR% chance to hit against monsters is partly determined by the difference in your levels so if the monster is like level 85 and you're level 70 your AR will suffer so you want to be as close to the monsters level as possible for best to hit %.
This is from an 'item poor' frost zealot so I thought I'd let you know, all is smooth riding until you hit hell then it starts to be painful, especially if you want to MF for items using FZ in hell. Holy shield you only need a few points in, then swithc to +skill equipment, cast holy shield, then take off the +skill equipment, to give you longer holyshield duration. It's cheap but it works at least until the recast. Really a FZ and Tesladin need to shore up with casters, an assasin or druid because of the immunities otherwise you'll find yourself running a lot and leaving certain areas and/or restarting your games if you solo and find theres areas you can't get past.
The first act in hell if you're soloing will have you frustrated unless you have +skil equip and max resist and a decent amount of life (at least 180+ vitality, probably ~700+ hitpoints), dont underestimate leech if you can get your hands on tal-rashas and socket a rare or unique life stealing weapon with an AMN or two (since your a frosty/tesladin) it will keep you alive vs. cold/lightning immune demons (which there are a lot of) when you switch to fantaticism if you're soloing (if you chose to spend 3 points to put the 1 point in FNT). You'll fight champions and uniques every... damn... step which may get frustrating solo, or without good support team of characters that can lower their resists.
I've maxed both Holy freeze and its synergy salvation if you play solo a lot it will be rough going without a good physical damage merc /w his resists maxed. I'm level 76 and I'm only doing roughly ~1200-1600 damage /w every necessary skill maxed (I'm +skill item/charm poor, plus I have an awesome resists shield that I refuse to give up for a +skill shield with crap resist).
Also you'll have to stick a decent amount of skillpoints in zeal or you wont be hitting much (unless you find a nice weap/ignore target defence) if you're going to be item/runeword poor for a good amount of time. I'm using fools ancient sword of evisceration on the non-cold immunes in hell (since most of your damage comes from Freeze+vengeance or freeze+zeal). The best part (I think) about it is if you die you can still kill weaker monsters around your dead body with 1000+ damage on your hands alone haha!
The AR on the fools is godly, combined with a rare helm with the visionary property and ur set @90+ hitrate at least for most regular monsters and probably champions and uniques with the exception of act bosses.
Note that AR% chance to hit against monsters is partly determined by the difference in your levels so if the monster is like level 85 and you're level 70 your AR will suffer so you want to be as close to the monsters level as possible for best to hit %.
This is from an 'item poor' frost zealot so I thought I'd let you know, all is smooth riding until you hit hell then it starts to be painful, especially if you want to MF for items using FZ in hell. Holy shield you only need a few points in, then swithc to +skill equipment, cast holy shield, then take off the +skill equipment, to give you longer holyshield duration. It's cheap but it works at least until the recast. Really a FZ and Tesladin need to shore up with casters, an assasin or druid because of the immunities otherwise you'll find yourself running a lot and leaving certain areas and/or restarting your games if you solo and find theres areas you can't get past.
Wurmer
Diabloii.Net Member
Sorry here but I don't agree,
You don't need to be wealthy to make those builts work. True the ritcher the better but that pretty much applies to every built. The secret to make a succesful Tesladin/Frostzealot is CRUSHING BLOW. That's the most efficient and cheapest way to go. Guilliaum's face helmet is not expensive and gore rider boots aren'too expensive either. Right there, you have 50 % crusing blow. Blood gloves can add some more % of cursing blow. This will make a huge difference. Ok you might have a rough going if you play in a 8 players games but it's certainly very doable. Also there is many sub variant that can be made to deal with immunities.
Also, you can do a Tesladin without the use of a crescent moon. Any speedy weapon with IDT or - % to monsters defense can be use in this regard.
I don't know if you took the time to carefuly read Both my guide and Kitiara's frost zealot but there is plenty of gear options for not so wealthy people. I took more than a couple of Tesladins through the game without uber gear and Kitiara's guide is based on a self found gear approach.
Both built are pretty much equivalent and which one you should make is really a matter of personel preferences. The Froszealot has more consistante damage and provides a more defensive stance with his huge slowing factor which makes it a prime choice for hardcore player.
You don't need to be wealthy to make those builts work. True the ritcher the better but that pretty much applies to every built. The secret to make a succesful Tesladin/Frostzealot is CRUSHING BLOW. That's the most efficient and cheapest way to go. Guilliaum's face helmet is not expensive and gore rider boots aren'too expensive either. Right there, you have 50 % crusing blow. Blood gloves can add some more % of cursing blow. This will make a huge difference. Ok you might have a rough going if you play in a 8 players games but it's certainly very doable. Also there is many sub variant that can be made to deal with immunities.
Also, you can do a Tesladin without the use of a crescent moon. Any speedy weapon with IDT or - % to monsters defense can be use in this regard.
I don't know if you took the time to carefuly read Both my guide and Kitiara's frost zealot but there is plenty of gear options for not so wealthy people. I took more than a couple of Tesladins through the game without uber gear and Kitiara's guide is based on a self found gear approach.
Both built are pretty much equivalent and which one you should make is really a matter of personel preferences. The Froszealot has more consistante damage and provides a more defensive stance with his huge slowing factor which makes it a prime choice for hardcore player.
SimontheBulletFreak
Diabloii.Net Member
I'm playing both a Frosty and a Tesla on single player and I've been flying. Yes the first two acts of Hell are difficult but get yourself a merc that compliments your build and MF in NM for a some help. I'm lvl 78 and on A3 Hell without any uber gear. Great guides Wurmer and Kitiara! :thumbsup:
Whats your guys damage outputs and telling us your main weaps if you dont mind? Also if you do solo with a frosty, yes... hell is more difficult this was *my point*. If you dont like dying ... a lot... esp when lag pops up because more often then not ur going to be getting in close /w frosty and because of lots of monsters use curse to increase their damage so that you can die in one or two hits and same goes for your merc, I'm using a barb and he still gets owned by uniques /w curse and whatnot if I'm not very careful. I've only been able to find +1 skills amy's shields and weaps nothing greater then +1, have found no +skills grand charms either even though I've tryed cubing for them with charms found in hell. What mercs and what items is your mercs using and whats their damage output?
Uhgii
Diabloii.Net Member
There are so many threads like this, debating between frost zealots and tesladins.
You want the blunt truth? Here it is:
They're both awesome. From first hand experience, I can tell you personally that they're both awesome. You'll be happy with either. The upside to the Tesladin is that it's extremely easy to make variants using the Holy Shock synergy (Tesladin/Templar) and just load up on CB to make the low physical damage seem like its not a problem. Another upside to the Tesladin is that with his best end-game weapon, Crescent Moon Phase Blade (CMPB), he has -% enemies lightning resistance, ITD (not much, if any, need for AR), no repairs/ridiculously fast, and additional open wounds to name a few attributes. The downside is the non-consistant damage, since the minimum damage, regardless of shock level, is 1. However, the average overall damage will be, typically, slightly higher than the frost zealots, and the maximum is much higher than the frost zealot.
However, the frost zealot is a favorite because of 2 reasons: firstly, it gives a more defensive and safe standpoint, as you can slow your enemies over 50% over a huge range with just the aura pulses. Secondly, it's cold damage! Everyone loves cold damage. The downside to the frost zealot would be the lower potential damage, no easy variants (other than some vengeance/conviction, which can be done on the tesladin anyway), and typical AR problems. Most of the ideal end-game weapons for the frosty include weapons like Heavens Light, Astreons, and the 'Black' runeword, none of which provide ITD, the best -% enemies defense coming from heavens light (-33%), but all providing huge crushing blow benefits (33-40%). I, personally, had trouble finding a way to enhance AR without using enchant on a demon limb, and while avoiding the use of 2x Ravens, or 1-2x angelics with the ammy, since I had other plans for my rings/ammys. So unless you come accross a Jah to spare on the weapon, if you're truly that devoted to the build, there are potential AR problems. However, if you just throw on the angelics/ravens, and max zeal, you'll probably be okay.
I wouldn't know which to pick if I had to choose... but if I was on hardcore, I'd definitly pick a frosty... hands down. But I enjoy my Teslafister (The tesladin/templar hybrid build) just as much, if not more, than my frost zealot.
From a non-biased point of view, I'd say pick either, or an even better choice: try both! I find that the tesladin can be a little cheaper, and may be more fun to start with, but I definitly wouldn't pass down the chance to create your very own frosty. :thumbsup:
Good luck! I'm positive you'll love either one... or both!
You want the blunt truth? Here it is:
They're both awesome. From first hand experience, I can tell you personally that they're both awesome. You'll be happy with either. The upside to the Tesladin is that it's extremely easy to make variants using the Holy Shock synergy (Tesladin/Templar) and just load up on CB to make the low physical damage seem like its not a problem. Another upside to the Tesladin is that with his best end-game weapon, Crescent Moon Phase Blade (CMPB), he has -% enemies lightning resistance, ITD (not much, if any, need for AR), no repairs/ridiculously fast, and additional open wounds to name a few attributes. The downside is the non-consistant damage, since the minimum damage, regardless of shock level, is 1. However, the average overall damage will be, typically, slightly higher than the frost zealots, and the maximum is much higher than the frost zealot.
However, the frost zealot is a favorite because of 2 reasons: firstly, it gives a more defensive and safe standpoint, as you can slow your enemies over 50% over a huge range with just the aura pulses. Secondly, it's cold damage! Everyone loves cold damage. The downside to the frost zealot would be the lower potential damage, no easy variants (other than some vengeance/conviction, which can be done on the tesladin anyway), and typical AR problems. Most of the ideal end-game weapons for the frosty include weapons like Heavens Light, Astreons, and the 'Black' runeword, none of which provide ITD, the best -% enemies defense coming from heavens light (-33%), but all providing huge crushing blow benefits (33-40%). I, personally, had trouble finding a way to enhance AR without using enchant on a demon limb, and while avoiding the use of 2x Ravens, or 1-2x angelics with the ammy, since I had other plans for my rings/ammys. So unless you come accross a Jah to spare on the weapon, if you're truly that devoted to the build, there are potential AR problems. However, if you just throw on the angelics/ravens, and max zeal, you'll probably be okay.
I wouldn't know which to pick if I had to choose... but if I was on hardcore, I'd definitly pick a frosty... hands down. But I enjoy my Teslafister (The tesladin/templar hybrid build) just as much, if not more, than my frost zealot.
From a non-biased point of view, I'd say pick either, or an even better choice: try both! I find that the tesladin can be a little cheaper, and may be more fun to start with, but I definitly wouldn't pass down the chance to create your very own frosty. :thumbsup:
Good luck! I'm positive you'll love either one... or both!
TheKbob
Diabloii.Net Member
Ladder isnt that hard to get stuff. Heck, on this new one I have all the stuff for summoner//mf necro and am working on polishing off some of the gear for my Fire elemental druid. Granted no uber runewords (HotO or CoH), but many an um rune has gone through me to make a Crescent Moon.
I made a crescent moon phase last season and got 223% (13% sup phase), but never made a shocker.
I'm quite pleased with my Froster and have maximized his gear to the fullest.
~Kbob
I made a crescent moon phase last season and got 223% (13% sup phase), but never made a shocker.
I'm quite pleased with my Froster and have maximized his gear to the fullest.
~Kbob
I just started a Freezealot and am only lvl 30 and I can attest to the harsh AR problems. The way I am getting around it is by using a Diggler dirk..it's ITD and wicked fast. Gives decent resists and some dex too. For CB I have a pair of venom grip gloves on. It's only 5% CB though...I'm hoping to pick up a Guillame's face or goreriders/goblintoe boots to boost that.
Wurmer,
I have a blessed aim merc..good ole Zanarhi
I have to level him some though, he dies too easily in Worldstone.
One question though, I have a crushflange and stopped using it because the knockback annoys me to no end. How do frostzealots use this thing?! It seems like one hit knocks em back and then I just whiff on the other hits due to the monster being out of range...
I have a blessed aim merc..good ole Zanarhi
I have to level him some though, he dies too easily in Worldstone. One question though, I have a crushflange and stopped using it because the knockback annoys me to no end. How do frostzealots use this thing?! It seems like one hit knocks em back and then I just whiff on the other hits due to the monster being out of range...
TheKbob
Diabloii.Net Member
Well it breaks down to this:
Use angelices, but then u lose Ravenfrost and 20% ias from ammy. Then u have to make up CBF somewhere else, and for end game for these guys, its usually helm. (End game being prob some runeword armor and P diamond/um HoZ).
Now to make up 20 ias (speaking for frosters, shockers have phase blades),
you gotta ditch your wonderful tap giving dracs.
It's a viscious cycle. I'm highly thinking of getting a BA merc just because I dont need the dmg boost at all.. and what else would I use... Holy Freeze :lol:
~Kbob
Use angelices, but then u lose Ravenfrost and 20% ias from ammy. Then u have to make up CBF somewhere else, and for end game for these guys, its usually helm. (End game being prob some runeword armor and P diamond/um HoZ).
Now to make up 20 ias (speaking for frosters, shockers have phase blades),
you gotta ditch your wonderful tap giving dracs.
It's a viscious cycle. I'm highly thinking of getting a BA merc just because I dont need the dmg boost at all.. and what else would I use... Holy Freeze :lol:
~Kbob
space_loner
Diabloii.Net Member
Sup all, back from other stuff to dwell into D2 for a while again.
It is so very, very, very true that the choice between freezealot and tesladin can not be made based on if one is better than the other, because they aren't.
But, on the other hand, the majority of this thread isn't even talking about that
Concerning ability to solo in hell ladder, I'd say they are very decent, and though they might be less damaging than your average hammerdin, they are a lot less gear dependant. (And hell, I dont know what you are talking about, saying the guides name eqs too godly, since they are all very plain and an um rune is not expensive in any ladder. Do a few nm baal runs with decent mf and you'll have all you need)
You don't need lightning facets, you don't need 4fps breakpoint, and you don't need a high damage weapon for this build to be successful, where can you find a better deal! The primary damage comes from your skill and skill alone, and with fully synergized holy shock you can cruise nightmare.
That is, presuming you can hit decently, which is why you can get a nice ITD weapon. They drop in tons and appears in so many good uniques. Hell, like I said, use wizardspike.
It is so very, very, very true that the choice between freezealot and tesladin can not be made based on if one is better than the other, because they aren't.
But, on the other hand, the majority of this thread isn't even talking about that
Concerning ability to solo in hell ladder, I'd say they are very decent, and though they might be less damaging than your average hammerdin, they are a lot less gear dependant. (And hell, I dont know what you are talking about, saying the guides name eqs too godly, since they are all very plain and an um rune is not expensive in any ladder. Do a few nm baal runs with decent mf and you'll have all you need)
You don't need lightning facets, you don't need 4fps breakpoint, and you don't need a high damage weapon for this build to be successful, where can you find a better deal! The primary damage comes from your skill and skill alone, and with fully synergized holy shock you can cruise nightmare.
That is, presuming you can hit decently, which is why you can get a nice ITD weapon. They drop in tons and appears in so many good uniques. Hell, like I said, use wizardspike.
space_loner
Diabloii.Net Member
See, this is funny. Daggers have a breakpoint of 5fps, and they generally have a base speed of 5fps as well, so you don't even need shaels. Too bad wizardspike isn't ITD.