Teleportation: still have not been invented

[TheNix]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

Hands up anyone who would let some machine diddle with your atoms, disassemble you, send you by parcel post, and then reassemble you at the other end.

*I don't expect to see too many hands up*

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

Your argument is pretty bad, no offense. I have a feeling mine wont be any better, because I really am not sure of what I am trying to say. Here goes:

Time is a THEORY; there is no way of proving it exists or doesn't exist. Kind of like souls (please don't turn this into a religious debate). Also, it is man made. The first humans didn't come to Earth and automatically they had a concept of time, someone finally showed the concept to some people and they liked the idea of it. Something like that. Here is another way to look at it; time is like inches, centimeters, Fahrenheit, or Celsius, or in other words, measurements. They are ideas someone had and thought up and showed people. I am not sure how the concept of time started, but I imagine it was similar to all the measurements listed above.

Also, language is man made, so without someone thinking of time we would have a different type of language with no tenses. Also, memories have nothing to do with time, because memories are not man made like time and languages. We had memories before someone brought the concept of time to us. I can't really say what I'm trying to express here so I hope at least some of that makes sense. Ughh.

my arguments are not bad. in fact, they accomplish what i was trying to say: arbitrarity rules in human language aquirement and development

anything we say can simply be refuted by arbitrarity on an individual level.

however on a group level the element of convention comes in (just read standard language development books) and you have to choose in how far you want to be part of that group. you'll have to choose whether you accept their word definitions, concept-word-links, bla bla...
such is the case with words like "time" or any other word, like i said!

so what you're doing is not actually refuting what i said, but assuming i said something else due to misunderstanding my post and then refuting that illusion

i'll show you why:

Time is a THEORY; there is no way of proving it exists or doesn't exist. Kind of like souls (please don't turn this into a religious debate). Also, it is man made.

time(1) is a theory, yes, and that theory is man-made, yes... i brought elements of time(1) into my post because time(1) consists of part of time(2)

time(2) is what i was talking about. it is a term-concept link, and as a term-concept-link can exist between any one concepts and words that we humans make or innately accept (see gene affecting concept theories or environment affecting concept theories and see determinism theories). this link will be arbitrarily established by each individual, varying simply by its degree of conventional acceptance within the group.

time(2) is what i was talking about, because galabab said this: "Time is only aterm describing that things actually happen.", which implies the term part and "so people came up with the concept of time. But actually time isnt there! The universe just exists and stuff flyies around and interacts. Sure you can measure 'time' but its an invented thing just to help understand the universe.", which implies the concept and link part

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now i will make comments on your other stuff based on the time(1) that you're using:

1.)the first humans came from evolution. therefore we can argue on a biological scale: can biological organisms have the concept of time embedded in their gene structure or not? if so, which do and which don't? which one is the human?
now it's clear that humans can have the concept of time develop entirely because of genes, entirely because of lifetime experience or out of a combination of both. if you are for the latter two, then i guess you can consider yourself correct

2.)memories have NOTHING to do with time? are you joking?? memories have at least as much to do with time as all other things that happen (yes, i also mean time(1) ). also, memories we link to the past out of convention and arbitrarity, so we give them something to do with the concept of time by definition...
now if you mean the purely biological aspect of memories, then, as said, they happen, and so, have to do with time BUT i wasn't talking about the purely biological aspect, also memory(1), but i was talking about the one that included language theory, which would be memory(2)

3.) i hope i wasn't too hard on you, i can see how you're still like:
"I can't really say what I'm trying to express here so I hope at least some of that makes sense. Ughh."

try to understand that you have not shown why my arguments were bad...

 

[nicro tower]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

Teleportation has been invented in diablo. :tongue:

:hide:

 

[BobCox2]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

it is funny how much the old star trek transporter technology looks like it's using quantum entangled particle generation

 

[DailySupernova]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

my arguments are not bad. in fact, they accomplish what i was trying to say: arbitrarity rules in human language aquirement and development

anything we say can simply be refuted by arbitrarity on an individual level.

however on a group level the element of convention comes in (just read standard language development books) and you have to choose in how far you want to be part of that group. you'll have to choose whether you accept their word definitions, concept-word-links, bla bla...
such is the case with words like "time" or any other word, like i said!

so what you're doing is not actually refuting what i said, but assuming i said something else due to misunderstanding my post and then refuting that illusion

i'll show you why:



time(1) is a theory, yes, and that theory is man-made, yes... i brought elements of time(1) into my post because time(1) consists of part of time(2)

time(2) is what i was talking about. it is a term-concept link, and as a term-concept-link can exist between any one concepts and words that we humans make or innately accept (see gene affecting concept theories or environment affecting concept theories and see determinism theories). this link will be arbitrarily established by each individual, varying simply by its degree of conventional acceptance within the group.

time(2) is what i was talking about, because galabab said this: "Time is only aterm describing that things actually happen.", which implies the term part and "so people came up with the concept of time. But actually time isnt there! The universe just exists and stuff flyies around and interacts. Sure you can measure 'time' but its an invented thing just to help understand the universe.", which implies the concept and link part

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now i will make comments on your other stuff based on the time(1) that you're using:

1.)the first humans came from evolution. therefore we can argue on a biological scale: can biological organisms have the concept of time embedded in their gene structure or not? if so, which do and which don't? which one is the human?
now it's clear that humans can have the concept of time develop entirely because of genes, entirely because of lifetime experience or out of a combination of both. if you are for the latter two, then i guess you can consider yourself correct

2.)memories have NOTHING to do with time? are you joking?? memories have at least as much to do with time as all other things that happen (yes, i also mean time(1) ). also, memories we link to the past out of convention and arbitrarity, so we give them something to do with the concept of time by definition...
now if you mean the purely biological aspect of memories, then, as said, they happen, and so, have to do with time BUT i wasn't talking about the purely biological aspect, also memory(1), but i was talking about the one that included language theory, which would be memory(2)

3.) i hope i wasn't too hard on you, i can see how you're still like:
"I can't really say what I'm trying to express here so I hope at least some of that makes sense. Ughh."

try to understand that you have not shown why my arguments were bad...

You weren't to harsh on me, in fact, I thought I might have been a little to harsh on you. No offense, but I really have a hard time reading your posts because of the way you type. I suppose the first post I responded to was correct, there is no way of proving any side of the argument right or wrong.

So this is what I have to say:

Fine.

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

this is what i have to add:

if more people lightened up from time to time like you do, we might be living better lives

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

teleportation...

first why do we need to teleport now. we already have communication means to instantly communicate with anyone in the world (earth). why do we need to be there in person. we can now do virtual meetings and interact even in a virtual world with current technology. what's the need for teleportation anymore? (i know teleportation has still some uses, but due to the communication technology we already have we don't really need to move much anymore).
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as to the science of teleportation:

theoretically it is possible. however, as of right now our scientific knowledge lacks the ability of being able to "teleport".

the theoretical way to "teleport" is to "simply" warp space. instead of us moving..we move the world/universe. our own personnel wormholes to "teleport" where ever we want.

the problem is it is not so "simple". we don't have any idea how to warp space significantly and safely. and then even if we could and we could make a "contraption" for use for individuals, we'd have to figure out how to make it take us where we want to go...or when... etc...

theoretically it is completely possible to "teleport", but the problem is that with our current technology and understanding/knowledge of the world/universe/physics/science it is impossible to do. it is impossible in terms of practical-ness.
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about time:

time DOES exist, however, einstein and his special relativity theory proved/proves that time is relative.

let's take a clock. the hands on the clock on always moving at the same speed. however, to the person watching the hands on the clock they seem to be moving at a much slower speed.

let's take a person in a moving car and a person outside a moving car. the person inside the moving car seems to be going at the same speed as if he was walking. however to a person ouside the car the person inside the car is zooming by.

the GPS sattelite's clock has to be constantly adjusted. the time on the satelite is going at the same speed. however, for our cell phones and blackberries on earth, they have to wait for the gps signal to reech them. if the gps satelite's clock wasn't reseted...your cell phones and black berries would register it being before noon when it is really after noon. (i don't know/remember the exact amount they are off by, so i used a super loose example).

let's say u have a beam of light bouncing back and forth in a container. that light is always going at the same speed. however, if u move that container, now the light beam is bouncing all over the place (traveling greater distances). and it seems to be taking longer to go back and forth to the person looking at it. the beam of light will seem slower or faster (not sure which) to the person looking at it when the container is moving, compared to when the container isn't moving.

than einstein further discovered with his general theory of relativity, that not only is time relative, but time and space are the same thing, and that space-time can be altered by gravity.

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

teleportation...

first why do we need to teleport now. we already have communication means to instantly communicate with anyone in the world (earth). why do we need to be there in person. we can now do virtual meetings and interact even in a virtual world with current technology. what's the need for teleportation anymore? (i know teleportation has still some uses, but due to the communication technology we already have we don't really need to move much anymore).

have you ever played command and conquer: red alert2?
do you remember what a chrono-commando can do? (the guy that teleports and places charges on buildings to explode)

as to the science of teleportation:

theoretically it is possible. however, as of right now our scientific knowledge lacks the ability of being able to "teleport".

you meant to say "lacks the knowledge of being able to teleport significant things", right? We are clearly already able to teleport some of the smaller particles as written in a link in a previous post...

about time:

time DOES exist, however, einstein and his special relativity theory proved/proves that time is relative.

it stated that, it didn't prove it. a theory can never prove anything, experiments do. THAT would be more scientifically exact and accurate...

let's take a clock. the hands on the clock on always moving at the same speed. however, to the person watching the hands on the clock they seem to be moving at a much slower speed.

let's take a person in a moving car and a person outside a moving car. the person inside the moving car seems to be going at the same speed as if he was walking. however to a person ouside the car the person inside the car is zooming by.

the GPS sattelite's clock has to be constantly adjusted. the time on the satelite is going at the same speed. however, for our cell phones and blackberries on earth, they have to wait for the gps signal to reech them. if the gps satelite's clock wasn't reseted...your cell phones and black berries would register it being before noon when it is really after noon. (i don't know/remember the exact amount they are off by, so i used a super loose example).

let's say u have a beam of light bouncing back and forth in a container. that light is always going at the same speed. however, if u move that container, now the light beam is bouncing all over the place (traveling greater distances). and it seems to be taking longer to go back and forth to the person looking at it. the beam of light will seem slower or faster (not sure which) to the person looking at it when the container is moving, compared to when the container isn't moving.

than einstein further discovered with his general theory of relativity, that not only is time relative, but time and space are the same thing, and that space-time can be altered by gravity.

you don't have to explain the theory of special relativity in your post... seriously, just tell us to look it up in any physics educationary book if it's so important to you

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

i assume everyone is too lazy like me to do that....

 

[sevencreature]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

Then assume everybody just thinks - TLDR; - exactly like me :wink:

About time and space - so far human knowledge is 'rather' limited I am afraid. We have theories of course, but well, theories are just theories.

Also, Cat > Einstein (Quantum fan here ).

 

[stillman]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

Well, maybe it is possible someday to do the 'next best thing' to teleporting matter.

Einstein described matter and their antimatter particles as 'spooky behavior at a distance'. So let's say you separate a particle and its antiparticle, putting each at both ends of the universe (VERY far apart). Then, you do something to your particle on your end of the universe to flip it to its opposite form (not sure what that is, positive/negative charge, orientation, don't remember). Well the instant you change your particle, the anti particle also changes to make sure it is opposite.

Now how the heck did it do that? The two are separated by some vast distance. Either information traveled faster than the speed of light to reach the antiparticle to tell it to change instantly, or everything is conected somehow and space of separation is irrelavent. Both answers seem ridiculous based on most of what we understand.

So instead of teleporting to Mars (for example) to do some work there quickly, why not just send a robot there with some antimatter components? Then, you just stay here on Earth and manipulate some matter, and then the antimater on Mars reacts instantly to what you do, and the robot does the work you want. So you'd only need to spend time sending the robot once, then this would eliminate the need to teleport because you can just have the antimatter robot do whatever you would do after teleporting.

One more note: If you take 2 identical atomic clocks (which keep time accurately to many decimal places) with identical times, and put one on a jet and leave one on the ground, something amazing happens. You compare the times after the flight and their times differ a bit because the one on the jet was moving. Time was manipulated by movement.

 

[nicro tower]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

Wouldn't anti-matter annihilate itself with matter though?

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

dude, stillman! every physics teacher would tell you that matter and anti-matter are just opposites... nothing more: let's say you turn a photon, full of energy into an electron and a positron (matter and anti-matter representatives) by slowing it down, which has been done alot of times before, and put each at either end of that great distance... now if you do something to the positron, NOTHING will change with the electron... it will stay an electron, a small particle of wave-like properties and negative charge, because the electron does not have any sort of magical link to the positron, and vice versa...

@nicro: yes, if you let the positron collide with the electron, then they will annihilate themselves into a photon again..., in fact, it does not have to be THE electron, just pick a random electron and do it...

 

[stillman]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

Well, maybe I'm using the wrong terms since this aint my field, but there ARE particles where you flip one and the other instantly flips accordingly, regardless of how far away it is. Einstien described it and he was puzzled by it, and you can see it being described in the documentry called: What the Bleep Do We Know?

nicro: Not sure if it's antimater that does it as I figgured in my last post, but if it were, you wouldn't need to worry about it annihilating itself since the 'matter' is separated from the 'antimatter'. The matter is on Earth and the antimatter is on Mars doing things according to manipulations you do to the matter on Earth. But let's just call them 'particles' since idk what they're called yet.

I'll tell you what, I'll look this up when I'm back from work.

 

[nicro tower]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

Yes but the anti-matter on Mars comes into contact with matter on Mars.

 

[BobCox2]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

it is funny how much the old star trek transporter technology looks like it's using quantum entangled particle generation

Please see the highlighted part of my post above for what you are talking about stillman, it has nothing to do with antimatter.

Recent experiments have been done with Quantum entangled particles.
Quantum entanglement has applications in the emerging technologies of quantum computing and quantum cryptography, and has been used to realize quantum teleportation experimentally[1].

Quantum teleportation

Quantum cryptography

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

he probably wasn't referring to your post, then, bobcox, AFAIK he can just post his own theories that he found somewhere without it having anything to do with your post...


@stillman: yes, you should look that up, it's probably not matter and antimatter

 

[BobCox2]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

I don't think he saw my post but it's what he meant, he just got the particle types confused with matter/Anti-Matter which is completely different stuff.

Teleportation (of a type) can be done using quantum entangled particles, no matter or energy is transported but as you can flip the state of one entangled particle at one location and the other one flips at the same time regardless of the distance separating them you can use them to send information from one place to another instantaneously (faster than light etc) thus teleporting the information from one point to another.

 

[Trip]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

JAH+ITH+BER worked for me

 

[Tanooki]

Re: Teleportation: still have not been invented

Would you want teleportation if it was "The Prestige" type? So as far as you can tell, nothing happened... depending on if you're the one that was moved or stayed still. If you didn't move, you'd be killed and the one who moved would be the "legal" you.

Would you take that risk?