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Summonmancer Baal runner

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Knightmare, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. Knightmare

    Knightmare IncGamers Member

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    Summonmancer Baal runner

    Someone please help me. I'm in the middle of a horrible crisis after reading all these summonmancer guides!

    Which type of summon necromancer is best for baal running? I've already started on a summon necromancer. He's lvl 20 and has already maxed Raise Skeleton and put some points in Skeleton Mastery.

    I read the Necromancer Encyclopedia and found a build that might be the best in my case which is the Skeleton/Poison Necromancer. Will this build help me in Baal Runs in Hell?

    Should I max block? Get bone armor or bone prison or bone wall?

    Here's the guide I had my eye on:

    4.4 Poison/skeleton
    One of the first necro’s I had considered playing for 1.10 and when done right one of the

    best options. I’ve yet to find the ideal skill point set-up but this is a good start.

    Poison and Bone
    10-20 p.dagger
    5-20 p.explosion
    20 p.nova
    1-5 c.e.
    1 bone armour
    1 pre-reqs

    Summoning
    10-20 skele mastery
    15-20 raise skelton
    0-3 mages
    0-5 revives
    1-5 clay
    1-5 g.mast
    1-5 summon resit
    0-1 fire golem
    2 pre-reqs(if revives, or fire golem used)

    Curses
    1 in all curses
    10 in all curses

    Solid tanks, both high physical and poison damage, and his array of curses makes this necro

    among the best all around in 1.10.

    :hanky:
     
  2. spuddogg

    spuddogg IncGamers Member

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    I have a mf skelliemancer that eats baal for breakfast.
    Can't give you the exact skill point allocation at the moment but here's a rough outline -
    Maxed RS and SM.
    Curses have 1 each.
    CE pumped to about 10 (count on your +skills gear to increase even more).
    1 in CG.
    1 in Revive.
    I have 1 in PN (at 9 with +skills), but I never really use it.
    Now that my merc has Crushing Blow (don't throw that Rattlecage away!) I can drop baal in 30-45 seconds.
    Minions are no problem (attract, amp and CE takes care of them).
    Only things to watch out for are Souls (DV takes them out) and Obliv Knights (their IM wipes my boys out in a heartbeat if i'm not careful).
     
  3. spuddogg

    spuddogg IncGamers Member

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    Oh and lastly -
    Dex is pumped to keep my block around 66% (highly recommended if you do Pit Runs).
    Str is minimum req for gear.
    Nrg is base.
    All else in Vit.
     
  4. Knightmare

    Knightmare IncGamers Member

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    Thank you very much. :worship:

    But why only one in revive? What type of merc did you get btw?
     
  5. Dausuul

    Dausuul IncGamers Member

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    I would assume he only has 1 in Revive because more than 1 is a total waste. Revives kill much slower than skeleton warriors, they get in the way, they cause nasty lag, and they get lost and vanish unless you spend half your time babying them along. With +skills, 1 in Revive is plenty. I hardly ever bother Reviving except when preparing to fight Lister and his pals.

    For the merc, I'd guess a Might merc (Act 2 offensive), which will boost a skelemancer's killing speed tremendously. (I'd say my skeletons inflict about twice as much damage with the aura on, though it's hard to judge for sure.)

    That bit about crushing blow sounds... interesting. I think I may have to dig up a Shael rune and upgrade my Rattlecage. It'd sure be nice to be able to engage Baal without needing a book to read while my minions nibble him to death.
     
  6. Knightmare

    Knightmare IncGamers Member

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    I'm startin to get worried :(

    I'm at lvl 24 now and I have 10 skeleton warriors (that's it). I've been doing some baal runs in normal but when they get to baal (my skeleton warriors), they are constantly distracted by the tentacle things and baal keep on teleporting around! How will I defeat Baal in Hell solo? How will I eat him for breakfast just like the other summon necros? :(
     
  7. Ravenforce3

    Ravenforce3 IncGamers Member

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    When my Summonmancers go up against him, I try to swarm him on the bridge. It gives fewer places for tentacles. For some reason, he never teleports when I surround him. That could be because I keep Gumby and Decrep on him constantly (making him move like a gerriatric.) Try to slow him down some. If he can't attack, he can't teleport. Slower enemies are easier to keep in Hit Recovery.
     
  8. Knightmare

    Knightmare IncGamers Member

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    I see. What is gumby?

    Do you only use your skeleton warriors? No direct hits like poison nova? Should I go along with this poison nova/ skellie necromancer build to solo hell baals? (as in mf :p)
     
  9. Ravenforce3

    Ravenforce3 IncGamers Member

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    Gumby=Clay Golem

    Primarily, I would solo Baal with just skeles and as many Council Members/Balrogs as I could get. It takes a while to do, but if you get your merc a Hone Sundan or something else with the mod Crushing Blow, it'll go a lot faster.

    Incidentally, the skelemancer I usually do Baal with also uses .09 Trangs, so I usually lay out a few firewalls to drain his HP a little faster.
     
  10. disci

    disci IncGamers Member

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    Decrep+Clay combination works wonders vs Baal.
    I have Reaper's Toll on my merc, so I can go make coffee while Baal is getting hit left and right.
    :)
     
  11. Xiamet

    Xiamet IncGamers Member

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    When approaching the bridge to Baal, immediately cast CG on him, followed by a Decrepify. This slows him to a crawl and allows you time to then run past baal on the bridge...why run past him? This forces your skeles to follow you til they meet baal and forces your skeles to focus on baal instead of his tentacles. I find that constat Decrepifying and CG when needed tends to minimize baal's teleporting.

    Spam Bone Spirit if you have it to hasten the kill, or sit back and sip some tea while your minions work him.

    A merc with the CB mod definitely does wonders to speed up the kill. I equipped mine with a Hone Sundan and a Blackhorn's for the Prevent Monster heal and slow features. Between the CG's slow, my Decrepify and the merc's slow...Baal is ususally slowed to an almost frame by frame animation. it's glorous...lol

    -X
     
  12. mes_uno

    mes_uno IncGamers Member

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    At low levels baal can be quite difficult. You will definitely want maxed skeletons and skeleton mastery. The massive boost in life and damage makes it well worth while. As far a poison goes, i tried poison with my first mf necro and am now rebuilding with maxed corpse explosion. The increased range on the corpse explosion makes getting to baal very fast as it will cover most of the passage way each time you cast it. It makes for a more versatile mf char i feel, as it does both fire and physical dmg more quickly than an unsynergised poison nova could do.

    My build as it looks at the moment:

    Maxed SM/RS
    1 mages
    1 revived (6 with plus skills; all i ever need or want)
    1 in each golem and golem mastery/summon resists

    Corpse Explosion - maxing at the moment
    1 bone armour
    1 bone prison (may max later?)

    1 in all curses (+3 from items)

    Once i have maxed CE i will probably be putting points in decrepify for the duration increase. It gets frustrating casting it every 6 seconds on baal.

    When i'm killing baal i use a Chu-Ko-Nu socketed EthEthEthEthShael and swap in some crushing blow gear. It easily halves the time it takes to kill him (think sorcs static). It will be even faster when i get some crushing blow gear on my merc.
     
  13. niomosy

    niomosy IncGamers Member

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    Your build almost looks more like a Venomancer with some skellies than the other way around.

    If you're wanting to go the summoning route, I'd suggest maxing RS & SM then going for good 'ol Corpse Explosion.
     
  14. Knightmare

    Knightmare IncGamers Member

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    Interesting. So mages aren't all that great?

    Hmm...luckily I haven't put any in any of the poison skills. I've put 1 in CE, 1 in Clay Golem and 1 in Summon resist, Golem Mastery, and Amplify Damage. I maxed Raise Skeleton and put at least 8 in Skeleton Mastery so far.

    Now I'm wondering what route I should take.

    Oh and why should put one in EACH golem when I'm only using Clay Golem? :\

    I don't get that part with the Chu-ko-nu with the eth and shael's part. What will that do?

    Thanks all. :wave:
     
  15. WNxBeeky

    WNxBeeky IncGamers Member

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    My current necro is a lvl 84 summonancer (in hardcore)

    Maxed mastery and skels (both at lvl 33 after skillers)
    1 in mages and revives, 1 in all curses, and 1 in CG, BG and IG, GM, and SR.

    I have Corpse explosion around lvl 15 after skillers, along with 1 point in bone armor, and maxed bone wall. This absorbs 420 melee dmg. :)

    My might merc is lvl 84 - equipped with a Hone Sundan (shaeled - not much else atm), a rattle cage and sazabis helm). Total of 65% crushing blow is fantastic against anything big and +1 skills helps boost skelli dmg a lot.

    All i can say is that i rarely use revives or mages. I have 13 skels that deal fantastic dmg with might and amp. They stick with me all the time, and in single player mf runs, lvl 15 CE in combo is awesome.

    I use Irongolem for general monster clearing (e.g the pits) since with its 350% dmg returned it can be used easily to create the first few corpses for skels. I would change to CG for baal or meph, but only if my IG was made from something worthless.

    Skel mastery is vitaliy important to skels, so i suggest u max that to. (think raised = more skels. Mastery = better quality skels)

    I found that after i maxed RS and SM and one point in all curses that there was not much else i could spend points on. (in the end i went bone armor synergy for saftey in hell - and it is well worth it.) :)
     
  16. mes_uno

    mes_uno IncGamers Member

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    The Chu-Ko-Nu is a very fast base speed weapon which can reach 11FPA with only 9 Ias. By socketing it with EthEthEthEth it gets -100% target def which works on bosses where as Ignore Targets Defense (ITD) does not.

    This makes it a very good weapon for hitting rapidly to deal crushing blow dmg, if you are wearing crushing blow gear. I find that if you carry goblin toe boots/Guillaume's Face you have time to switch back to your mf gear before baal actually dies. This gives you 60% crushing blow.

    You can also use a 6 socketed phase blade EthEthEthEthShael + socket of your choice. I personally don't like the fact that you have to go melee against baal with it, and it has a much higher dexterity requirement than the chu-ko-nu. Crushing blow from melee attacks does, however, do more dmg than from ranged 1/10th targets current life removed, as opposed to 1/16th.

    The Chu-Ko-Nu takes a little longer to kill, but in my opinion is safer which, to me, is more important in HC.
     
  17. patheticloser

    patheticloser IncGamers Member

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    This thread has given me a lot to think about, my summonmnacer is at lvl 50. I have marrowwalks, and when I put it on I will have a lvl 30 SM.

    Clearly I want a might merc, and I have a reapers toll to put on him, which means I can move decrip off of my hotkeys and replace it with dim to take care of thsoe @#$&^@ gloams. I have a rattlecage, and as soon as I see a shael drop I am going to upgrade it. Also, I think I will move the CG off of the hotkey, I only cast it when I first enter a game, as he almost never dies. If I ever build another summonor I will only put points in CG as prereqs for summon resist.

    I was wondering what to do with the "extra" skill points. After maxing RS I plan on alternating between CE, Wall and SM (I will need the elemental damage against IP's in hell, and they are not affected by the IM curse). Combined with the marrowalk bug I should be able to have a nice bone armor.

    It seems the general consensus on revives is that they suck. I agree! The best stragegy seems to be to only use them to raise the monstors before baal's minions come up. Perhaps they could come in handy in hell pit runs.


    Also, WITH DECRIP ON BAAL WILL NOT TELEPORT. Try it, you will see what I am talking about.

    I have a question regarding the Iron Golumn. I know it takes on properties of the item you use to create it. But what does that mean? If you use a Rattlecage to raise it will it get crushing blow? Can you make and Iron Golumn out of any metal item, or just normal ones?
     
  18. mes_uno

    mes_uno IncGamers Member

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    A few things here:

    Rattlecage:- I don't think this is worth upgrading. The defence is all that will increase, and as the high def comes from +200 to defence, rather than +%def the increase will only be a hundred or so. If you have the stuff to burn feel free though. This is probably best placed on a might merc.

    Reapers Toll/Decrepify: While the decrepify on reapers toll appears to be useful, you may find you still want it hotkeyed. When you find your minions scattered for example, or to curse a large group immediately on first contact.

    Clay Golem:- Probably the single best use for clay golem is to cast immediately next to a Boss monster. A single hit will significantly slow the target. The damage the golem actually deals is negligible however.

    Physical Immunes:- Why are you using Iron Maiden (IM)? The damage per second from this is utterly negligible compared to the damage you are missing out on from Amplify Dmg with your skeletons. Also Amp has the ability to break almost all physical immunities in the game. I Have only found one monster that I couldn't break in getting to Hell A5, and that was a random unique, not any boss that you would be likely to run.

    Also one point in Skeleton Mage, with the plus skills you should have will probably give you four or five mages without wasting more points there.
     
  19. patheticloser

    patheticloser IncGamers Member

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  20. Knightmare

    Knightmare IncGamers Member

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    Ok. So I've picked out a few VERY good pointers thus far.

    -Get a might merc and equip him with crushing blow
    -DO NOT use poison skills when you're a summoner; use maxed CE
    -Slow Target and Decripify works great against Baal
    -Crushing Blow is good....for..............umm......Baal :surprise:
    -MAX SM/RS
    -No more than one point in Revive, Golems, Skeleton Mage, Curses, SR, GM

    ................ :(

    I'm still confused about some things. How does Iron Golem work? What "things" are best to summon it from? And why?

    Will the Crushing Blow from my might merc be enough or should I socket a Phase Blade or Chu-Ko-Nu (a random one of any type?) with Eth's and a Shael for more ambitious damage?

    Why should there be a point in every curse? It'll be hard to hotkey all of them and doesn't everyone use Amp Damage and Decripify and maybe Lower Resist only?

    Hmm...well I've managed to structure an adequate guide with a few loose screws out of all of these super duper responses. Thanks all! :thumbsup: [No sarcasm intended; it's the truth! :fish:]

    I think I will: Continue to Max Skeleton Mastery and Corpse Explosion, and put 1 point in Amp Damage and Decrep, and Clay Golem, Iron Golem, Summon Resist, Golem Mastery, Skeleton Mage, and Revive (72 points used) until I feel it's safe to go on in a good direction that will make good use of the 30 remaining points or so.

    Thanks!
     

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