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Summoners: How do you get your first kill?

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by prion, Mar 28, 2004.

  1. prion

    prion IncGamers Member

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    Summoners: How do you get your first kill?

    I know there are guides out there for pure summoners, the one I read didn't really cover this.

    As i think about the next weird build I want to try, I am wondering what is a reliable way to get the first kill to build up your army? I like to use mercs but hate to rely on them for anything. Would a bow in conjunction with a golem do it? as long as all I need to do is kill a quill rat when solo to get my first skeleton this should work?
     
  2. 10 Speed

    10 Speed IncGamers Member

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    I use my merc with a little bit of curse and golem aid. Or, you can go to the bloody foothills, which has 3-4 corpses just sitting there, or you can go to pindle, where there are even more corpses just sitting there.
     
  3. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    If you want to use the bow you need to get either a lot of AR or ITD.

    If you are not yet in Act V you can use Attract and a Merc to get the first corpse. Why do you not like to rely on Mercs? I think they are one of the most important parts of a build.
     
  4. Dr3vil

    Dr3vil IncGamers Member

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    A3 fire merc + max dps fire golem (20 fg, 20 clay) + LR

    As long as I don't keep running into a tightly packed mass of monsters, the first kill isn't much of a problem.
     
  5. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    A3 Merc for a Skelliemancer. Unusual, have you tried the Might Merc?
     
  6. Skips

    Skips IncGamers Member

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    nah ya see he has the merc on switch, after hes got his first kill then he switches to the might merc. *nods sagely*
     
  7. prion

    prion IncGamers Member

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    hmmm...yeh...that won't do it in hell then

    I didn't want this to be a merc discussion but since you asked think there's lots of reasons not to *rely* a merc.

    For one, mercs can be stupid sometimes--if you are expecting them to kill, they might be stuck on a rock or something, running in place. They'll also continue to hit things that hurt them, like LEB's and anything when they've been IM'ed.

    If you go up against an act boss, most of the time the boss will kill your merc. Now your build is broken.

    Minions aren't always reliable either but they can be resummoned.

    Leveling a merc is tedious. It's worse than doing mf runs. When you're trying to let a merc get most of the kills is when their stupidity really shines.

    Sometimes they take damage too fast and die while youre trying to kill things. If you stop to heal them, that's a distraction.

    Mercs are great, my paladin has a might merc that does more damage than he does. I was lucky to find a nice rare ethereal pike that I'll consider upping once or twice if I can't find anything better. I've had very few problems with him so far. Sometimes, tho, mercs are just a pain to keep around.

    This is just my personal preference and opinion, but as a whole I don't think it's good to *rely* on anything outside of your skills. Now equipment is important and obviously you need certain kinds of equipment, but I think a build that relies on 'x' unique item or runeword might be a lot of fun but I don't consider it a 'good' build. I feel the same way about mercs. Obviously they are helpful, but if you need a particular merc just to survive then I don't consider the build to be 'good.'
     
  8. GIR

    GIR Banned

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    Just give something a few whacks with your uberleet Cracked Wand.
     
  9. Phyrexial

    Phyrexial IncGamers Member

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    If you party with people, getting that first corpse shouldn't take that long. Barring this and assuming you are playing solo, a merc is the best way to do it before you can simply get minions from Act 5. (Pindle)

    A couple tips about Mercs:

    1) You don't need to let them get the kills, they get experience from your kills too. Generally, you can kill much faster than your merc so its just more efficient and faster to go about your business killing things rather than prepping a monster for your merc to kill. My sorc leveled up her Act 2 HF merc while running Pindle actually. He rarely ever got a kill but he still leveled up every 5 or so runs.

    2) Lifetap will save your merc if he can deal decent damage.

    3) If you really need to get him out of a bad situation, use a tp to reassemple your minions to your position.

    4) Leveling mercs doesn't take that long if you get them as soon as you can so they are roughly your level to begin with.
     
  10. jmprockstar

    jmprockstar IncGamers Member

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    This doesn't happen enough to matter in regular games and it certainly shouldn't happen when you've just used a WP to Act 1 to get some easy corpses. Not a good reason to ignore using a merc.

    I cannot remember the last time this happened to me. You merely have to equip your mercenary as you would equip yourself, namely, well. Some resistances and a lot of life leech and, boom, you're done. Throw in some damage reduction, if you want. Not too touch, especially the Might Mercs, since they start in the 40s.

    Only golems, really, and they're support minions, since they cannot kill on their own.

    Only if you rushed and did Baal runs before getting the merc, but that is your fault for badly planning your build, not the mercenary's. Get the merc as soon as you're in Act II Nightmare and, like I said, equip him well. You shouldn't have any problems.

    Again, if they're badly equipped, this is a problem. Also, they're worth a distraction if their aura is a major cause for your minions doing any damage, which they are. However, if you spend your time keeping him alive, it means that you've bought your merc late in the game, meaning, again, you're reaping what your bad plan has sown or a perpetrator of Mercenary neglect by sending them to battle for you with cracked voulges.

    A merc is even easier to keep alive with a summoner than with a pally because you have minions who protect him and benefit from his aura.

    This is a straw man; that is, no one has made this argument. So why raise this point? Besides, it isn't even relevant. A summoner could make it through Hell without a mercenary. It would just be slow and suck a whole lot. That doesn't make them a bad build. Mercenaries are a game feature, just like items, and should be used in ways that improve your overall effectiveness. It simply makes no sense to deny the quality of a build merely because they utilize a game feature you dislike, especially for the rather bad reasons you've listed.

    It sounds to me your impressions of mercenaries were developed by unknowingly mistreating them. They're very useful if you use them correctly. I suggest you revisit them with your next summoner by hiring them as soon as you can and having great items for them to use as you advance.

    The other ways of getting corpses--Pindle, Bloody, and wiping out Act 1 Cold Plains monsters--are great, too. But, sadly, this has turned into a merc discussion. Threads about first kills always do. :)
     
  11. sunbearie

    sunbearie IncGamers Member

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    I use a bow on my skellimancer (pus spitter +2 necro skills) and basically I just cast bone prison on one monsters and shoot away. Terror/Dim vision and attract keep the rest of the monsters away. Even with only 50% to hit (I have 2500ar), the quill rat dies eventually.

    Btw, if you're using a merc etc, often its more benefical to cast CE on the first corpse. It kills the pack, hence giving you more corpses to summon skellies.
     
  12. Necro

    Necro IncGamers Member

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    Merc + golem + amp. Or in act 5 i run into anya's portal and start raising before those guys come alive.
     
  13. prion

    prion IncGamers Member

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    Well like I said I didn't want this to turn into a merc discussion so I will try to keep this brief.
    That's all well and good, but I play through normal also, and to keep a merc in normal is sometimes difficult. Rogues especially will lag behind several levels--in a party, they get almost no kills, so i can get a lot of experience due to my own kills and sharing, while they get only the little bit they can leech off of me.

    like I said, I was lucky to find an awesome pike for the merc I had in normal (prayer or something) upgraded him to might merc in nightmare. If he died too much, eventually I would just leave him dead. As for mercs being protected, I had an a3 lightning merc tag along with my MBAN and he kept getting wasted. By comparison, my IG almost never died, and skeletons and revives could pop out of the next corpse.

    I wasn't even making an argument; since Mad Mantis asked why I don't like to rely on mercs, I was explaining.
    I don't dislike the feature, I just think it has flaws and limitations.

    I was sure someone would misundrstand me when I said a 'good' build which is why I put it in quotes. To me, relying on a mercenary is just like being a melee sorc and relying on Beast runeword. Builds based on something outside of your own skills can be viable and fun and whatever else, but, game features or not, I just don't like to *rely* on that sort of thing. Maybe I can't explain it very well. It's just my preference, and is pretty harmless since I don't go around telling people their build sux.
    Fact is, I always start the game with a mercenary, right after a1 q2. If they die too much, I move on. As far as these "great items" go, it better be something I've found on the ground, because most of the time I prefer to play with just what I find.

    Well it's late and i'm done. I'm not against mercenaries and I hope this explains my thinking.
     
  14. Silent-Predator

    Silent-Predator IncGamers Member

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    After i finished my summoner i had plenty points to spare. Now some people won't agree to this but it works wonderfully on my summoner. Using the marrows glitch and maxing out BS i can get 1.5k dmg easy. That takes care of ur first kill no prob. I also got an act2 nm might merc which can take care of it too. BS is more or less normally my support skill on the tough monsters and bosses.
     
  15. Roach

    Roach IncGamers Member

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    Lol sounds like your making a case for Animal Cruelty, or in this case Merc Cruelty. Quick someone call the ASPCA (American Society for the Provention of Cruelty to Animals) Or in our case DSPMC (Diablo Society for the Provention of Cruelty to Mercenaries)

    :clap:
     
  16. prion

    prion IncGamers Member

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    I'm not opposed to marrowbug in this situation but I don't ever expect to find them so I've already determined not to use them
     
  17. Singollo

    Singollo IncGamers Member

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    mercenaries are nice and should be used by all. thay can tank very well if geared right, and can kill just about anything. as a necromancer leveling the merccan be easy. you have life tap witch can heal them if thay do phy dmg, amp to mmake them do more dmg or decrepify for them hard fights. the necro is the best character to aid a merc imo, and should be no trouble leveling or keeping alive.

    use the merc, its the best way to get the 1st kill, and you can rely on a merc more then a golem or most definitely another player :uhhuh:
     
  18. MithrandirX

    MithrandirX IncGamers Member

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    I'm not exactly sure what kind of build you are playing, and what kind of setup your merc has, but an act three merc properly levelled and moderately-well outfitted shouldn't be dying on you. Occasionally (hardly ever) I lose one to poison, but that's about it.

    And, while my summoners don't "rely" on mercs, I definitely enjoy the 50% boost to my killing speed that a might merc provides. I've never had any trouble keeping him alive, and leveling him was simple -- he just came along for the ride and lagged about two levels behind me.

    As for the original topic (first kill), I use a might merc (crud gaze, eth courpsemourne, eth bonehew), a clay golem, attract and amp. It takes about four seconds. Or else I just make Pindle's minions into my boys.

    Mith
     
  19. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    An Act II Merc with the proper use of curses should also not be dying.
     
  20. Curry-Chi

    Curry-Chi IncGamers Member

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    Or Use your WP to go back to Act I and kill afew Fallens and summon your army up.. Thats what i do in NM Difficulty. Easy, Efficent, and Deadly.. I jus got into NM and i can already own Andy without any assistance.. i can summon 9 skellies and 3 skellie mages. fun fun fun =D

    Also, Get a Act 2 Offensive Merc with some badass eq on it.. if he dies, your skeleton army gets a HUGE drop in Offense...beware..

    Currently im in Hardcore Mode, so i gotta watch muh back ;P
     

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