Summoner questions

PhoenixCRO

Diabloii.Net Member
Summoner questions

(PvM, with occasional PvP versus trapsin, but focus is pvm)

1) How good is summoner in hell? (no need for Baal runs ofc but in general first few acts at least)

2) With solar creeper, a summoner who also uses volcano/fissure has enough mana, and doesnt need to invest in energy? Or he does? Observations?

Now, im divided between several strats so any help is appreciated:

I thought of using minimum str dex n mana, n putting all in vitality. This means going summoner volcano/fissure way, but it also means that due to low dex i cant use bow. Now, since im supposed to be away from combat, huge life isnt needed that much (well, it's still good ofc).. which means i have no prob having higher dex n getting a bow. Now,

3) would u advise me to use a bow (and thus be huntermentalist summoner in a way), or im gonna spend the time casting volcano/fissure and wont have much of time to shoot with bow anyway? Or should i simply use bow and have some club (or whatever has +skills) on switch? Basically, using a bow means i wont have a shield for resists and other bonuses (i dun care bout block)

4) If one doesnt use mega-super-unique bows, do bows deal solid damage, are they worth it? I cant afford godly items. Is bow better than crossbow here, or it simply depends? Pros n cons?

5) How useful would it be to invest 10 (or so) points in shockwave n pre-preq? That would be like 10 points less in fissure, and im not really sure it's worth it. Dont get me wrong, i know it's good for crowd control, but i prefer staying 'behind enemy lines' and collecting items (smashing barrels n jars etc) while my troops bash around (so, in a way it's cool for mfing). The bear wont be strong anyway, so i doubt it would be wise to go n do some melee damage. I know picking shockwave or not mostly depends on playing style; i was merely curious if anyone could give lil bit feedback on these thoughts. Wouldnt fissure give some crowd control too? :)

6) HoW - how many points? Should i max it, or put like 10 points and use +skills? But yea, i do need damage.

7) 1 point in grizly or 20? Should i just max his life with 20 points in dire wolves, n then use it against boses as meat shield, or should i really put 20 points in it? The thing is, i'd like to focus more on summoning n less on elemental tree. Nevertheless im trying not to waste points. Griz gives more damage to my wolves, so im really all for putting 20 points in it, but i'd like feedback on it. The reason why i would like 20 points is cause of damage synergy.. i mean, i actually expect wolves to kill, not just serve as meat shield.

8) Might merc or HF? No, i dunnot have that item that gives HF alongside Might, plus, i think it's lame, and one of those godly items that kill the fun of the game. So, basically HF gives higher survivability and another elemental attack (aside of physical attack and fire), and on the other hand might makes summons kill faster. I am of course leaning towards might because i can recast summons. However, i can think of tons of situations where HF would be more useful. I will most likely not have enigma, so im not really sure i will be able to outrun all enemies, or quickly cast town portal :)

9) Poison creeper. I have read a lot about it, but to be honest, half of the things seem contradictive :) Some say it's a solid way of killing the crowd, some say that no matter what it's slow etc etc. Should i even bother with this or just put 1 point and it's done deal? Wouldnt it be smarter to just put points in volcano/fissure/boulder instead? Yes, i'd like more focus on summoning tree, but only if it pays off. I dont want to spend half of the playing time recasting creeper at strategic points and doing micromanagement. How good is he in NM/Hell?

10) Plus skills dont count with synergies?


Just for the sake of reference, raw point distribution would be something like:

1 ravens
1 spirit wolf
20 dire wolves
1 or 20 griz
1 poison vine (prereq)
1 carrion (prereq)
1 solar
1 oak (prereq)
10-20 HoW

1 firestorm (prereq)
1 molten boulder
12+ fissure
20 volcano
(total of 100 points in d end)

If i go with 20 points in griz n HoW, i get only volcano maxed on elemental tree. I doubt it's too good without strong synergies.. so choices are (i think) putting less in HoW (dun think this is good), or less in griz (not sure bout this either). Perhaps putting only 12 in HoW and 20 in fissure? Or maybe just taking a bow and combining it with occasional volcano without strong synergy? Kinda sucky. I need strong volcano because pure physical summoner aint gonna work for me. Oh well, feedback? :) Im aware both choices have pros n cons, im mostly curious about game experiences of those who took one or more ways.
 

Forcefeedback

Diabloii.Net Member
Hi! :howdy:

How about:
20 how
20 grizzly
1 prequist***s
0 in vines since they aren't that useful for a summoner
20 fissure
20 volcano

If you don't want to have block you might as well have a bow to pelt monsters with and take full use off HoW.
Shockwave is a good defencive measure but you shouldn't need it against stunnable monsters with holyfreeze and everything.
Merc should be holyfreeze unless you are using godly equip.

Hope this isn't a too short an answer, if it is I'll write up a lenghtier answer tomorrow when I'm sober.
 

Comatose

Banned
PhoenixCRO said:
(PvM, with occasional PvP versus trapsin, but focus is pvm)

1) How good is summoner in hell? (no need for Baal runs ofc but in general first few acts at least)

2) With solar creeper, a summoner who also uses volcano/fissure has enough mana, and doesnt need to invest in energy? Or he does? Observations?

Now, im divided between several strats so any help is appreciated:

I thought of using minimum str dex n mana, n putting all in vitality. This means going summoner volcano/fissure way, but it also means that due to low dex i cant use bow. Now, since im supposed to be away from combat, huge life isnt needed that much (well, it's still good ofc).. which means i have no prob having higher dex n getting a bow. Now,

3) would u advise me to use a bow (and thus be huntermentalist summoner in a way), or im gonna spend the time casting volcano/fissure and wont have much of time to shoot with bow anyway? Or should i simply use bow and have some club (or whatever has +skills) on switch? Basically, using a bow means i wont have a shield for resists and other bonuses (i dun care bout block)

4) If one doesnt use mega-super-unique bows, do bows deal solid damage, are they worth it? I cant afford godly items. Is bow better than crossbow here, or it simply depends? Pros n cons?

5) How useful would it be to invest 10 (or so) points in shockwave n pre-preq? That would be like 10 points less in fissure, and im not really sure it's worth it. Dont get me wrong, i know it's good for crowd control, but i prefer staying 'behind enemy lines' and collecting items (smashing barrels n jars etc) while my troops bash around (so, in a way it's cool for mfing). The bear wont be strong anyway, so i doubt it would be wise to go n do some melee damage. I know picking shockwave or not mostly depends on playing style; i was merely curious if anyone could give lil bit feedback on these thoughts. Wouldnt fissure give some crowd control too? :)

6) HoW - how many points? Should i max it, or put like 10 points and use +skills? But yea, i do need damage.

7) 1 point in grizly or 20? Should i just max his life with 20 points in dire wolves, n then use it against boses as meat shield, or should i really put 20 points in it? The thing is, i'd like to focus more on summoning n less on elemental tree. Nevertheless im trying not to waste points. Griz gives more damage to my wolves, so im really all for putting 20 points in it, but i'd like feedback on it. The reason why i would like 20 points is cause of damage synergy.. i mean, i actually expect wolves to kill, not just serve as meat shield.

8) Might merc or HF? No, i dunnot have that item that gives HF alongside Might, plus, i think it's lame, and one of those godly items that kill the fun of the game. So, basically HF gives higher survivability and another elemental attack (aside of physical attack and fire), and on the other hand might makes summons kill faster. I am of course leaning towards might because i can recast summons. However, i can think of tons of situations where HF would be more useful. I will most likely not have enigma, so im not really sure i will be able to outrun all enemies, or quickly cast town portal :)

9) Poison creeper. I have read a lot about it, but to be honest, half of the things seem contradictive :) Some say it's a solid way of killing the crowd, some say that no matter what it's slow etc etc. Should i even bother with this or just put 1 point and it's done deal? Wouldnt it be smarter to just put points in volcano/fissure/boulder instead? Yes, i'd like more focus on summoning tree, but only if it pays off. I dont want to spend half of the playing time recasting creeper at strategic points and doing micromanagement. How good is he in NM/Hell?

10) Plus skills dont count with synergies?


Just for the sake of reference, raw point distribution would be something like:

1 ravens
1 spirit wolf
20 dire wolves
1 or 20 griz
1 poison vine (prereq)
1 carrion (prereq)
1 solar
1 oak (prereq)
10-20 HoW

1 firestorm (prereq)
1 molten boulder
12+ fissure
20 volcano
(total of 100 points in d end)

If i go with 20 points in griz n HoW, i get only volcano maxed on elemental tree. I doubt it's too good without strong synergies.. so choices are (i think) putting less in HoW (dun think this is good), or less in griz (not sure bout this either). Perhaps putting only 12 in HoW and 20 in fissure? Or maybe just taking a bow and combining it with occasional volcano without strong synergy? Kinda sucky. I need strong volcano because pure physical summoner aint gonna work for me. Oh well, feedback? :) Im aware both choices have pros n cons, im mostly curious about game experiences of those who took one or more ways.
1.) A good summon druid can tank hell easy, my summon druid is capable of doing Hell trav runs in a full 8 man game.

2.) Put ONE skill point into Solor and Carrion. With good items it will immeditally get the maxium %10 LL or ML per corpse... you shouldent even need a Solor creeper if your a halfway decent druid in the end ; )

3.) No, do not use a bow. Use a low rec Beast for the fanta boost or a weapon with a large amount to + skills... I reccomend HOTO if you have a decent amount of "cash". If you are poor just get a islestrike.

4.) Bows are pointless, if your good your bear will do around 4k ON SKILL. Meaning not counting your auras. (Mine has Fanta / Might / heart of wolverine)

5.) 1 skill into shockwave.

6.) Max

7.) Max

8.) Might.

9.) No, its not worth it at all. 1 into for prequist.

10.) Dont bother being elemental, you cannot really be a efficent elemental / summoning druid since they both require so many skillpoints. I would just decide on one or the other.
 

PhoenixCRO

Diabloii.Net Member
0 in vines since they aren't that useful for a summoner
Hmm, well it only takes 3 points for solar (2 of it for prereq), i think it would pay off no? I think it can be useful.
---

A good summon druid can tank hell easy, my summon druid is capable of doing Hell trav runs in a full 8 man game
Hmm, can you tell me what u use? What skills, stats n equip?

you shouldent even need a Solor creeper if your a halfway decent druid in the end ; )
Hmm lol, 2/2 people saying no creepers... ok now i have to think it over. I get 3 skill points if i dun use solar. Is it really that useful? I mean, if i use volcan n fissure, wont i really need every bit of mana i can get? Even tho volcano has 4sec timer? I mean, are you sure it's really not needed? :)

No, do not use a bow. Use a low rec Beast for the fanta boost or a weapon with a large amount to + skills... I reccomend HOTO if you have a decent amount of "cash". If you are poor just get a islestrike.
Hmmm i dunno have runes for Beast lol im not really rich :p wizardspike i have lol! nah seriously, im not that rich, i can twink lil bit here n there, but i have no godly items to be honest. What's islestrike? There's a chance i will have runes after some aditional playtime, but it's unrealistic

Bows are pointless, if your good your bear will do around 4k ON SKILL. Meaning not counting your auras. (Mine has Fanta / Might / heart of wolverine)
Eh, i doubt i'll have fana, for above reasons.

1 skill into shockwave.
Bleh, even tho i know with +skills it will be solid, i still need to put points in prereqs. Not to mention, lycantropy wont be that huge, so i'll prolly need to shift in n out often, which i abs hated with my werewolf n werebear while they were at lower levels. I abs hate micromanagement tho, constant shockwave... i mean is this really worth it? u sure? wouldnt volcano be d same in a way or shockwave is definitely easier n better? Truth is, i'd really prefer volcano n spell over this. Btw, the bear is supposed to only do schockwave, not actually fight right?

lol, can two of u make up ur mind ;)

Dont bother being elemental, you cannot really be a efficent elemental / summoning druid since they both require so many skillpoints. I would just decide on one or the other.
Well, i still need volcano dammit, even weaker mediocre one. It helps me alot against Diablo (i cannot take on this guy with summons cause his ring kills em uber fast; however, volcano kills him fast n easy). Volcano also gives me something to do while my summons rage around.
 

Beowulf

Diabloii.Net Member
Comatose said:
1.) A good summon druid can tank hell easy, my summon druid is capable of doing Hell trav runs in a full 8 man game.

2.) Put ONE skill point into Solor and Carrion. With good items it will immeditally get the maxium %10 LL or ML per corpse... you shouldent even need a Solor creeper if your a halfway decent druid in the end ; )

3.) No, do not use a bow. Use a low rec Beast for the fanta boost or a weapon with a large amount to + skills... I reccomend HOTO if you have a decent amount of "cash". If you are poor just get a islestrike.

4.) Bows are pointless, if your good your bear will do around 4k ON SKILL. Meaning not counting your auras. (Mine has Fanta / Might / heart of wolverine)

5.) 1 skill into shockwave.

6.) Max

7.) Max

8.) Might.

9.) No, its not worth it at all. 1 into for prequist.

10.) Dont bother being elemental, you cannot really be a efficent elemental / summoning druid since they both require so many skillpoints. I would just decide on one or the other.

Whatis wrong with using a bow? A hunter is much better then a pure summoner due to the extra source of damage.
 

Comatose

Banned
Beowulf said:
Whatis wrong with using a bow? A hunter is much better then a pure summoner due to the extra source of damage.
Bows require dex that could go into vita.

Bows require 2 slots, meaning no fanta / + 25-40 str boosts from beast. And meaning no +2 to skills / okay res / + to vita / + to mana from a spirit monarch.

The fanta alone with give all the damage your... bow... would be doing against monsters to your minions (Bear / Merc) as well as giving yourself a big strength boost for your spirit monarch.

The +2 to skills ties the +2 to skills a Faith Hydra bow would give.

(I tried the bow deal, its just ****ty overall ... IMO of course, but I have made around 4 summoning druids.)

And my items?

Helm: Um'd Up'd Jalas
Armor: Superior BP enigma
Weapon: 32 Str beast double axe
Shield: Perfect spirit
Belt: Aracnids
Rings: Duel 5LL BKs (I dunno why I got 5LL's... just for the hell I guess)
Ammy: +3 to summoning / +%10 FCR
Boots: Sandstorm / Aulders / War Travs... depending on the situation
Anni
10x +1 to druid summon gc's ... 5 with + to life... working on the other 5 :)
8x20 life sc's and x1 +5 all res sc
On switch is a 5/5 CTA and a Splendor boneshield.

The build... in total has...

1426 base life 3428 in wearbear around 5k with CTA
370 base mana
197 str
20 dex
448 vita
50 energy

The bear is lvl 42 with the following stats.

7637 BASE life.
4900-5061 BASE damage.
An BASE attack boost of 1075%
An BASE defence boost of 460%

The merc does 8k BASE damage (He uses a eth cryptic axe obediance / eth dusk FORT and a eth 39%ed jewel p up'd vamp)

the Heart of Wolveriene does 307%ed and 312% AR boost with a 74 yard radius.

All in all I find this to be basically the best build in the game, IMO, for dueling... you ust teleport next to any char you want to kill and bla.. with the x3 Aura ed averaging around 700% MORE ed on the bear and your merc... yay...
 

Beowulf

Diabloii.Net Member
Comatose said:
Bows require dex that could go into vita.

Bows require 2 slots, meaning no fanta / + 25-40 str boosts from beast. And meaning no +2 to skills / okay res / + to vita / + to mana from a spirit monarch.

The fanta alone with give all the damage your... bow... would be doing against monsters to your minions (Bear / Merc) as well as giving yourself a big strength boost for your spirit monarch.

The +2 to skills ties the +2 to skills a Faith Hydra bow would give.

(I tried the bow deal, its just ****ty overall ... IMO of course, but I have made around 4 summoning druids.)

And my items?

Helm: Um'd Up'd Jalas
Armor: Superior BP enigma
Weapon: 32 Str beast double axe
Shield: Perfect spirit
Belt: Aracnids
Rings: Duel 5LL BKs (I dunno why I got 5LL's... just for the hell I guess)
Ammy: +3 to summoning / +%10 FCR
Boots: Sandstorm / Aulders / War Travs... depending on the situation
Anni
10x +1 to druid summon gc's ... 5 with + to life... working on the other 5 :)
8x20 life sc's and x1 +5 all res sc
On switch is a 5/5 CTA and a Splendor boneshield.

The build... in total has...

1426 base life 3428 in wearbear around 5k with CTA
370 base mana
197 str
20 dex
448 vita
50 energy

The bear is lvl 42 with the following stats.

7637 BASE life.
4900-5061 BASE damage.
An BASE attack boost of 1075%
An BASE defence boost of 460%

The merc does 8k BASE damage (He uses a eth cryptic axe obediance / eth dusk FORT and a eth 39%ed jewel p up'd vamp)

the Heart of Wolveriene does 307%ed and 312% AR boost with a 74 yard radius.

All in all I find this to be basically the best build in the game, IMO, for dueling... you ust teleport next to any char you want to kill and bla.. with the x3 Aura ed averaging around 700% MORE ed on the bear and your merc... yay...

Well I have been playing summoner builds since the xpac came out and the most fun and interesting to play imo is the huntermentalist. With this I have my bow, volcano and fissure, the bear or wolves depending on the situation and myself doing damage. My bear is still around lvl 37 or so and does fine damage. I have about 1.3k life but who needs life when you are a hunter you should be behind your merc and minions. Also I do not play ladder and likely never will. I also do not trade and play with what I find and I have been lucky over the years.
 

Parapsycho

Diabloii.Net Member
9) Poison creeper. I have read a lot about it, but to be honest, half of the things seem contradictive Some say it's a solid way of killing the crowd, some say that no matter what it's slow etc etc. Should i even bother with this or just put 1 point and it's done deal? Wouldnt it be smarter to just put points in volcano/fissure/boulder instead? Yes, i'd like more focus on summoning tree, but only if it pays off. I dont want to spend half of the playing time recasting creeper at strategic points and doing micromanagement. How good is he in NM/Hell?
Poison creeper isnt the best summon a druid has, but it is not completely worthless. You can make it all the way to NM with a decent weapon and high level poison creeper. The damage it does in Hell isnt particularly notable, but it does help against PIs and pretty much cancels out monster healing, which is helpful. If you are going for a pure summoner, I would max it. If you are doing any sort of hybrid build, I would reccomend at least 5, and let +skills take care of the rest. Combining fissure and Poison creeper works really well,
 

PhoenixCRO

Diabloii.Net Member
Bows require 2 slots, meaning no fanta / + 25-40 str boosts from beast. And meaning no +2 to skills / okay res / + to vita / + to mana from a spirit monarch.
Oh geez, i dont have godly equipment, and i dont even know what Spirit monarch is lol... ok ok, i'll try to do some MFing and see what i can come up with, or simply check if friends can share an item or two, or trade.


Soooo... shockwave or just hunter/elemental?
Might or HF merc?
 

ChthonVII

Diabloii.Net Member
1) I've heard they can do alright. Probably not as good as either shifter or caster, but alrighty nonetheless.

2) Vines die when you need them most. It's good to have one to help out, no doubt, but relying on one will get you into trouble.

3) to be a viable summoner, you won't hardly have the skill points left to be a powerful caster. Not that a bow is going to do great damage either...

4) X-bows are all horribly slow. This effect is only multiplied by the fact that you have no skills w/ which to shoot multiple arrows. Only shaeled buriza & double shaeled hellrack qualify as merely sluggish. Otherwise avoid x-bows altogether.

5) No shockwave. The transforming/manuvering into & out of position time outweights the stun time. Unless you plan on spending time as a bear and hitting stuff, it'll be over before you can do anything useful w/ it.

6) I believe all summoners max this.

7) I believe most summoners come as close as possible to maxing all three bear/wolf skills.

8) Might

9) Poison creeper is good through about act 1 norm, after which it totally sucks.

10) Plus skills dont count with synergies. However, the wolf/bear passives are just that, passives, not synergies, so plus skills DO count for them.
 

LordQuas

Diabloii.Net Member
I think a bow is an excellent way to compliment your summons, not only as an extra souce of damage, but as a way to deal with those pesky PIs.

Some bows of interest:

Kuko Shakaku
Witchwild String
Widowmaker (if you play ladder)
Double Shael'd Hellrack (3 element damage is nice, but speed could be an issue, gear helps here though)
 
I can honestly say, with 100% certainty, that carrion vine has saved me from death many more times that I can even remember.

and it saves you from death by corpse explosion at certain points of the game.
 

Beowulf

Diabloii.Net Member
ChthonVII said:
1
9) Poison creeper is good through about act 1 norm, after which it totally sucks.

1
Another person that speaks before they know what they are talking about. Look into the guides for electricblues poison creeper guide and you will see how powefull it can be in hell.

As for bows I use to use kuko but now prefer a silence crusador bow. Gives nice damage, +2 skills decent speed and amazing res with some other usefull mods.
 

ChthonVII

Diabloii.Net Member
1. I don't particularly enjoy being flamed.
2. I'm aware of what electric blue thinks of poison creepers, I just don't agree. Even if I accept, arguendo, that the damage is something to right home about, it just dies too easy. At no point in the game after act 1 norm does it have enough hp to survive long enough to pop out enough mats to take advantage of the stacking effect. Unlike the other 2 vines, poison creeper is always trying to do its thing right next to a bunch of live monsters, and it's only got 350 life at lvl 25.
 

Beowulf

Diabloii.Net Member
ChthonVII said:
1. I don't particularly enjoy being flamed.
2. I'm aware of what electric blue thinks of poison creepers, I just don't agree. Even if I accept, arguendo, that the damage is something to right home about, it just dies too easy. At no point in the game after act 1 norm does it have enough hp to survive long enough to pop out enough mats to take advantage of the stacking effect. Unlike the other 2 vines, poison creeper is always trying to do its thing right next to a bunch of live monsters, and it's only got 350 life at lvl 25.
Wow that was a flame? If you call that a flame you have a very low flame threshold. And as long as you know how to cast it and work it you should have no problem keeping it alive long enough for it to do it's job.
 

PhoenixCRO

Diabloii.Net Member
to be a viable summoner, you won't hardly have the skill points left to be a powerful caster. Not that a bow is going to do great damage either...
Well, it's kinda given that i cant be powerful caster, but that wasnt my intention either. My point was simply putting sth like 20 points in volcano and 12 in fissure. The rest goes to summoner tree. Now, im just curious how good would this work. Imo, volcano wont be too weak, and it can give me versatility. Again, this is in theory, so i was just wondering how it worked for those who tried it in practice.

If i dont put points into volcano n fissure, i have lots of points left, and dunno what to do with em. I could like put 20 in poison creeper, but that still leaves me with around 12-14 points.. and honestly imo volcano would give more versatility than poison creeper (again, imo), and would give me sth to actively do.

I believe most summoners come as close as possible to maxing all three bear/wolf skills.
I dont see the point of putting more than 1 point in spirit wolves..
-------

Beowulf (and others) - how much do u use spells (volcano fissure) and how much bow? How much damage does ur bow inflict - and i dont mean in numbers, but just general picture, like is damage noticeable? :) Is ur volcano/fissure nuff strong to deal with PIs? How much (raw) dex u have? What about putting dex into vit, and just using spells? Mmm do u have probs without shield, or minions/merc absorb enemy fire anyway? Do u use poison creeper n if yea how many points (raw) in it? Did u manage to kill Hell diablo w summoner, alone? :p
 

PhoenixCRO

Diabloii.Net Member
And? should i bother with volcano/fissure or just go with summoning tree and hope bow will kill PIs miraculously?
 

electricblue

Diabloii.Net Member
ChthonVII said:
2. I'm aware of what electric blue thinks of poison creepers, I just don't agree. Even if I accept, arguendo, that the damage is something to right home about, it just dies too easy. At no point in the game after act 1 norm does it have enough hp to survive long enough to pop out enough mats to take advantage of the stacking effect. Unlike the other 2 vines, poison creeper is always trying to do its thing right next to a bunch of live monsters, and it's only got 350 life at lvl 25.
what I think?
what i say about poison creepers is based on tests, not thoughts.

i am saying that I did solo hell cows with just poison creeper, not to mention pit runs etc.. no mercs, no bear no elemental skills or bow.

life of the creeper doesnt mean much, since you already need to recast him for killing blows. he has enough life to lay his mats, and thats what we need.

here is the link to the related forum.
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=224438
 

Beowulf

Diabloii.Net Member
electricblue said:
what I think?
what i say about poison creepers is based on tests, not thoughts.

i am saying that I did solo hell cows with just poison creeper, not to mention pit runs etc.. no mercs, no bear no elemental skills or bow.

life of the creeper doesnt mean much, since you already need to recast him for killing blows. he has enough life to lay his mats, and thats what we need.

here is the link to the related forum.
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=224438
And voila!!! Thanks
 
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