Summoner on Steriods

[THRiLL KiLL]

Summoner on Steriods

i am about to try another summoner, and i am looking for advice.

My current necro, is a fishymancer (/w full trangs), and sad to say, i
don't use ce as much as i should.


you constantly see Godly builds for other chars (pally/sorcs etc) but i have never seen one for a necro. i have everything i have listed with the exception of Pride. and i want to run it through the community before i make that investment.


here is what i am thinking for skill layout:


20 Skel
20 skel mast
1 skel mag
1 revive
20 golem mast
20 clay golem(the 20k life makes for an interesting tank)
1 summon resist
1 teeth (pre-req)
1 ce
1 amp (increase damage.)
1 dim (pre-req)
1 attract (for starting armys)

** points total. im trying to decide if i should put the rest in ce or
amp


Gear:


Helm:
Harlequin Crest

+2 skills life\mana\mf all yummy mods.


Armor:
Enigma.

+2 skills, life,mf, damage reduction, and most important Teleport
(helps with keeping your minions in check)


weapon1
Pride

16-20lvl of concentration, will give your army a nice damage boost (285% to 345% damage added)

weapon2/shield
CTA/sprit

Battle orders will add 32% to 50% to life for your army. battle command will add +skill
spirit will add additional +2 skills to the cta.

Ammy
Maras

2+ skills, and much needed resists.


belt
Verdungos.

damage reduction, +life

Gloves:
Trangs

Cold resists and +2 to curses

rings: raven / soj

add in a torch, and a anni. and a bunch of resist charms ....


For the merc i was thinking

act 2 merc (defiance)

Andariel's Visage
+2 skills, life leech

Infinty polearm (probly eth thresher)

Bramble (for the thorns)




my goal is to put my army on steroids. infinity/amp will remove physical resists. Bo will give more life and a higher lvl army, rift will add damage. the merc can go for defiance (for improved defense). i know higher def will cut down on the thorns ability. i can also go the route of blessed aim (better hit rates for the army)

the golem will be one of the key parts, 20k life before bo, and 68% slow enemy.

The army will be 12 skele 5 skele magi, 11 revives.


any improvements on gear or skill distribution? lmk.

 

[Wizdomm]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

You absolutely want to get a Might merc for a summoner. There is no other act 2 merc aura that really does anything for the summoner. Defiance will do nothing for a high-level summoner because your skellies will almost never die anyway. Might plus Infinity is the way to go.

Instead of having your necro carry Pride, instead carry a Beast axe (for fanaticism). Fanatacism plus skellies equals "kick butt" plus you get to carry a shield (for more plus skills/resists).

Not sure I'd put a Bramble on the merc either. Thorns isn't as useful as you would think. Your merc won't do as much damage without Fort, and for the thorns aura to be useful your merc/summons have to get hit. You'll find (at high levels) that your merc/skels will kill monsters before they ever damage themselves in anyway with thorns. I think using the typical Fortitude on your merc (drastically increasing his dmg) will work much better.

For skills, I think it is a big waste of points putting 40 points in Clay Golem and Mastery. With the high-end gear you are planning on using, with just one point in all the golems and one point in both mastery and resist, your Clay Golem will have a ton of life and NEVER die anyway...and all those points will not make any real difference in slowing power either. And no doubt you will be decreping when needed. So spend those other 38 points somewhere else....

...I like maxed mages alot...especially with an infinity merc. You also will have enough points to max CE if you choose. But with high-end gear just 1 point in CE is plenty if you would rather invest those 20 points in Bone Wall (for the Bone Armor synergy) With 1 point in Bone Armor and 20 in Wall...with alot of plus skills....you will get a nice 400-500 bone armor. The added defense is great. Don't bother maxing Amp. With one point (with alot of plus skills items) you're range on the amp will be as big as you'll ever need.

 

[canudig]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

Agree......I'd go might merc with fort + infinity. Beast on you, with summon gear on switch. If you really want to be serious as well, when you summon use a +3 summon ammy instead of maras (after shouts for the +skill). If you insist on the CTA have it in your cube.....Also I'd rather have another SoJ instead of ravenfrost since being frozen doesn't really matter anyways. And unless you're thinking of PvP against casters or something, I'd skip the res charms for summon GCs and res scs if you really want......the max mages, with the rest of the points into bone wall/bone prison to boost bone armor life......don't forget to 'ral' the andys since I occasionally have trouble at councils with my merc when he doesn't have ral in his andys......

 

[THRiLL KiLL]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

update.

20 Skel
20 skel mast
20 skel mag
1 revive
1 golem mast
1 clay golem
1 summon resist
1 teeth
1 ce
1 amp
1 dim
1 attract
1 bone armor
20 bonewall

Gear:

Helm:
Harlequin Crest

Armor:
Enigma.

weapon1/shield 1
beast/Homunculus

weapon2/shield
Arm of king Leoric/spirit

Ammy
+3 summon

belt
Verdungos.

Gloves:
Trangs

rings: soj / soj

add in a torch, and a anni 4x summon charms


Merc

act 2 merc (might)

Andariel's Visage (ral'ed)
Infinty polearm (probly eth thresher)
Fortitude



should i socket any of the non runeword gear?

thanks for the sugesstions and keep them coming =)

 

[maiku]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

i am about to try another summoner, and i am looking for advice.

My current necro, is a fishymancer (/w full trangs), and sad to say, i
don't use ce as much as i should.

CE is the lifeblood of a Fishymancer. If you got it, flaunt it!

20 Skel
20 skel mast
1 skel mag
1 revive
20 golem mast
20 clay golem(the 20k life makes for an interesting tank)
1 summon resist
1 teeth (pre-req)
1 ce
1 amp (increase damage.)
1 dim (pre-req)
1 attract (for starting armys)

** points total. im trying to decide if i should put the rest in ce or
amp

I would definitely dump the extra points into Corpse Explosion...but then again, I would max it as is part of the standard Fishymancer build, because it is so powerful. I would take points from Golem Mastery and divert them into maxed Skeleton Magi for a lot of added elemental damage, since you're going to have an "Infinity."

It's an interesting idea to have an almost immortal Clay Golem. Without a doubt, he'll be tougher than an Iron Golem or Fire Golem ever can get. I've done some tinkering with the Necro Pet Calc, and it's possible to achieve Clay Golems with 40K+ life. No kidding. You might as well have such a golem tanking all three Ubers simultaneously while you grab a cappucino, read the NY Times, and have a smoke.

On the other hand, a normal 1-point Gumby gets a fair chunk of life and Slow just by being raised by +skills items and he is recastable. I'm more of the opinion that unless you have a strong need for an immortal tank (as a Golemancer, Poisonmancer, or Bonemancer might rely on), the points could be used better elsewhere. And if you wanted something like a very tough Iron Golem made out of a nice item ("Insight," "Pride," etc.), then naturally 20 points in Golem Mastery would pay off handsomely, giving such a golem around 6-8K+ life (10K+ I think if you have a lot of skill GCs).

weapon1
Pride

16-20lvl of concentration, will give your army a nice damage boost (285% to 345% damage added)

Yes, definitely raises their damage quite a bit.

Battle orders will add 32% to 50% to life for your army. battle command will add +skill
spirit will add additional +2 skills to the cta.

I don't believe the addition of life is that large. It's actually very small, because the addition to life is treated as a % added on top of other bonuses the skellies/minions get, such as from Skeleton Mastery, Golem Mastery, etc.

I don't see a point in equipping a Ravenfrost. You're not engaged in melee or need to run away. If you're chilled, teleport away using your "Enigma." It also doesn't affect fcr, so don't worry about it too much. Just make sure to have either good block or high life + FHR to avoid sticky situations.

For the merc i was thinking

act 2 merc (defiance)

Andariel's Visage
+2 skills, life leech

Infinty polearm (probly eth thresher)

Bramble (for the thorns)

Because you want to use "Bramble," a Defiance Merc is, in my mind, a really, really bad choice. Maxed and powered skellies will have high defense, and Defiance will up that even more, meaning that monsters will have a lot of difficulty damaging your minions and getting damage returned to them. In that case, there's no point to using a "Bramble." Read the Corrupted Televangelist guide, and notice the writer's points about using Revives as vehicles to deliver the pain of Thorns: low defense, high life, multiple minions, Amp. Those are what make Thorns hurt. You need to encourage monsters to attack and throw themselves onto your minions, let your minions take a pounding, and monsters will kill themselves in the process. The solution is simple: dump the Defiance Merc and use the Might Merc. Why would you *not* use one when much/most of your damage will be dealt by minions anyway? The only other Merc I would consider using here is a Holy Freeze Merc (so I could control the battlefield to a T), but then again, I don't believe he's as good as the traditional Might Merc. Might tanks better, hits harder, kills faster, and boosts the entire army.

my goal is to put my army on steroids. infinity/amp will remove physical resists. Bo will give more life and a higher lvl army, rift will add damage. the merc can go for defiance (for improved defense). i know higher def will cut down on the thorns ability. i can also go the route of blessed aim (better hit rates for the army)

Wait, when did a "Rift" something come into the picture? That throws out Level 21 Frozen Orbs, and while it is *very powerful* it is also not really suited to a physical damage build like the Fishymancer is. Necro summoner builds which could possibly include a "Rift" to great success are Lord of the Magi or Poisonmancer/Bonemancer builds, where Lower Resist + Conviction can be used to augment Frozen Orb and Tornado damage more. Not only that, the chilling effects will make your Thorns even more worthless. It really does not fit with this build as proposed. If you want to see how it might be incorporated, search for a thread by me where I discuss how "Rift" and/or "Voice of Reason" might be used in a Lord of the Magi variant, with the focus on getting the most damage out of dual "Rift" setup on Merc + "Rift" Iron Golem.

"Infinity" also lowers the defense of monsters via Conviction, so there's no need for a Blessed Aim Merc. Skellies already have a good chance to hit, get better as you level up (because their AR is based on your character's level), and will be boosted by Conviction.

the golem will be one of the key parts, 20k life before bo, and 68% slow enemy.

I don't think he's that useful of an addition or investment in this setup, unless you plan to have him fighting the Ubers solo. Actually, it could be interesting if you wanted to use him primarily for Ubers, and I might see some reason for such a Clay Golem.

The army will be 12 skele 5 skele magi, 11 revives.

That's a pretty small army. My Fishymancer can raise 13-14 Warriors, Magi, and Revives, and I don't have him equipped as well as I could.

any improvements on gear or skill distribution? lmk.

Here's how I would lay out a high-damage build with the focus on physical damage:

20 RS (1st)
20 SM (2nd)
20 Corpse Explosion (3rd)
20 Golem Mastery (4th)
20 Raise Skel Magi (last one to max)
1 point Iron Golem
1 Revive

or

1 point Magi
20 Revive (max last)

The max Revive option will essentially make your Necro a variant Corrupted Televangelist, and you can use an unbelievable number of Revives to all carry Thorns and let enemies beat on them (while the enemies are killing themselves in the process) and while your Skeleton Warriors + Merc cut down enemies. I believe you get 1 Revive for every point in the skill. This means you could have 20-40 Revives shambling about if you could summon them quickly. You trade off the elemental damage you would've gotten from Magi for more pure physical damage from Thorns. That'll make for one hell of a minion stack as you teleport around. Don't expect the Revives to actually kill stuff. Their purpose is to let enemies kill themselves.

With 20 points invested into Golem Mastery, this opens up the way for you to play with a unique Iron Golem, like an "Insight" or "Pride" IG who is also tough. The only time he should die is if you die. Therefore, don't die! 6-8K life can be expected with a good number of +skills, 10K+ life if you have a ton of +skills. His purpose is to augment your skelly warriors and Merc to the max. If you have a "Pride" Iron Golem, you can also equip yourself with a "Beast." If not, make him out of an "Insight" and hold the "Pride" yourself, so you augment the army and lead. Spam CE liberally. Everything should die or be cut down.

This is total overkill BTW, both in number of minions and in total cost. A well-equipped Fishymancer is pretty godly as is.

 

[THRiLL KiLL]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

dont ask me why i said rift. i think i have been spending way to much time with my auradin.


the idea of the revives and thorns sounds very very interesting :grin:


ugg. now comes the hard part. which direction should i take. both seem to be fun.

 

[NumtyDoo]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

If you are looking for the highest damage output possible I would go with:
20 RS
20 SM
20 RSM
20 CE
1 point wonders (the "good" curses, golem, golem mastery, summon resist, revives, etc)
If you want to use IG then rest in golem mastery.
If not then I would go with 1 bone armor whatever is left in bone wall.

(The following is based on 20 +skills)

Why max CE? Because maxed with + skills the blast area is bigger than the screen. With amp and conviction (from infinity) In less than a 4 player game 1-2 CE's will kill everything on screen and then some. Hard to kill faster than that, 1 click and everything is dead.

Why mages? Here is why. With lots of +skills, infinity, and beast, your mages will be doing over 10k a second of elemental damage (total not each). Conviction from infinity basically doubles mage damage, think of it as AMP for mages. Not sure why, but the IAS from fanatcism increases mage cast speed (would have thought you needed FCR for this not IAS, but anyway), allowing them to cast 2 or 3 break points faster. The other thing about mages is it makes you not all physical damage, so nothing is immune to you. Skellies will be doing 30k physical damage a second, mages will do 10k elemental per second. Amp will break 99% of physical immunes, infinity will break alot of elemental.

There are other ways to spend points such as DV, or more into golem or bone armor synergies. But if you are looking for the most damage output possible the list above is how I would do it.

 

[exxoizzle]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

Beast runeword iron golem if your committed

 

[shijo]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

I run:
20SM
20RS
20CE
20RSM*

Also, if you want this build to work, you need as many +skill items as possible. 9 summon gcs, torch, annilus will make this build flat out crazy. You'll end up, on average, with 17-19 skeletons, and pretty close to the same number of mages (not that you have to summon that many, but you can).

Gear:
Beast/AoKL/CTA
Enigma/Chains of Honor (big dog resists)
Shako (um'd)
Homunculus (um'd)
Mara's/+3 summon Ammy
+2 Marrowwalk
Soj x 2
Arachnid Mesh(very important - fcr, +1 all skills)

Merc:
Guillaume's Face (35% cb)
Infinity CV (don't put it in anything less than a Colossus Voulge or a Cryptic Axe, or you're wasting the runes)
Eth Fort

Your merc will rarely take enough damage to warrant needing leech. It typically happens only on ubers. Everything else dies so fast. If he does need it, life tapping real quick does the job, then just switch back to amp. I usually Um the Guilluame's.

75% crushing blow is your bread and butter here. It chews through things when your skeletons can't.


*I usually put this in bone wall(synergy), but I like what I see in the comments about mages, so lets run with that.

 

[mrstack]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

ok so ne1 mind givin me tips? (want to be able to uber soon)
so heres my gear rundown
im lvl 81

mpnigma
shako
2summon ammy (lookin for 3 or mara for resist)
boneflame +3skill, aotk / beastz, spirit (should it be homonculus?)
no sojs(str ring and fcr resist ring)
+2marrow
trang gluv
torch, 3summongc, anni

merc wears for now
eth ca obedience
vgaze (lookin into getting him infinity, fort and guillames)

so if i gets sojs and max summon gcs i can solo ubers? and wut item switches do you guys think i should make? when using beast i get only 13skele

 

[canudig]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

and get rid of dungos and use arach.....+skill and fcr for a bit faster tele

 

[shijo]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

@mrstack: Read the above posts. Tons of great info there. Also, beast in a double axe is great if you're planning to make one. Tiny str requirements means a lot more points in dex (for block) or vitality. If you get max summon gcs, sojs, an infinity and guillaume's, you can solo most ubers, except for Chaos Tristram without trouble. For Chaos Tristram you'd need to revive some crushing blow mobs and make a few more preperations prior.

 

[THRiLL KiLL]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

Infinity CV (don't put it in anything less than a Colossus Voulge or a Cryptic

correct me if i am wrong, but wouldn't a thresher be a bit better? If you look at damage, its a bit lower, but if you look at the speed of the weapon, there is a huge difference, and with beast running, wouldn't that give the merc lower frames per a hit?

 

[shijo]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

Weapon speed doesn't affect attack speed for a mercenary. It's dependant on their level, and IAS from gear/runes/auras (so beast does help). CA's are the best, and also the hardest and most expensive to get. CV takes the most strength (200ish) to use, but provides slightly more damage than a CA and are a lot less expensive. Those two provide the best resale value of any of the polearm infinities.

Taken from this thread: http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=495478

Act 2 mercs have two types of attacks; Normal and Jab. It does not vary by polearm, just by the level of your merc. If you watch closely (by watching the merc and highlighting a monster's health bar), you can see that some of the merc's attacks, attacks twice (i.e. he appears to do two quick thrusts with his weapon), and a corresponding double drop in the monster's health bar during that attack. Other attacks are just one simple thrust of his weapon with just one drop in the monster's health bar, which is his normal attack. As these mercs increase in clvl, they do their special attack (Jab) a lot more frequently. A merc Jabs far more frequently than doing Normal attacks at high levels, thus it is more relevant to aim for a Jab IAS breakpoint. Probability for Jab is about 65% at low levels and about 80% at high levels. For Nightmare mercs it's slightly higher, for Hell slightly lower. Jab starts out at slvl 3 for lvl 9 mercs, is slvl 14 at lvl 43, slvl 24 at lvl 75 and above.

 

[stephan]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

Weapon speed doesn't affect attack speed for a mercenary.

Yes it does. You just posted a link to the tables for different WSMs.

 

[shijo]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

Yes it does. You just posted a link to the tables for different WSMs.

I stand corrected? :laugh: :jig:

Still not sure if a thresher would be better. I'd have to see some numbers on both ends to be totally convinced. But what matters is what you decide to use, so if you want a thresher, go for it.

 

[maiku]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

Weapon speed doesn't affect attack speed for a mercenary. It's dependant on their level, and IAS from gear/runes/auras (so beast does help). CA's are the best, and also the hardest and most expensive to get. CV takes the most strength (200ish) to use, but provides slightly more damage than a CA and are a lot less expensive. Those two provide the best resale value of any of the polearm infinities.

What the... Yes weapon speed and weapon type does definitely affect the attack speed of the Merc. Use the Weapon Speed Calc often linked to on this site or test it yourself with a CV vs. a Thresher. CV anything is hellishly slow. It hits hard but is really slow. For applying CB, it's not the best. I use ethereal "Obedience" Threshers for a nice combo of speed and damage. Two IAS breakpoints for Mercs using Threshers are 44% and 75% IAS, allowing them to jab faster. Now, of course the breakpoints change if you're using Fanaticism, but those are two examples that I always keep in mind because I use Threshers for their speed on a wide variety of my characters' Mercs, since I need special effects like CB, Decrepify (from Shaeled Reaper's Toll), or Frozen Orbs and Tornados (from "Rift" Thresher).

http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english

 

[shijo]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

Learn something new every day. Thanks for the correction.

 

[The Son Of Disaster]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

So does Fanaticism change the IAS BPs for a merc drastically? My summoner will be sporting an Infinity, most likely Thresher as thats usually the rout I go. And I will have fanat, so just wondering if a small alteration in mercenary equip could ultimately generate a faster attack. Thanks!

 

[maiku]

Re: Summoner on Steriods

Yes, it does alter the breakpoints quite a bit. Check the Weapon Speed Calculator link I posted and put in your desired setup.

I checked it earlier, putting in a Level 9 Fanaticism with Thresher as the selected Merc weapon, and it says that it requires only 52% IAS to hit 5 attacks per second. Without Fanaticism, 142% IAS required for 5 attacks per second. Fanaticism makes the IAS requirements much lower.