Summoner is weak

HafidzMD

Diabloii.Net Member
Summoner is weak

I had a hybrid which does 5k BS and 14 420dmg skellies, and he was a wonder. (i dont even have to have that many GCs, more space for other things, higher life/resists etc

Now I made this new necro a summoner with 15 900dmg skellies and 3k bone spear, with my merc using pride. hes a slack, killing slower than the first hybrid. Summoning skills are no good except for meat shield. dang. no room (they all full with GCs). *sigh

now for the flaming.
 

Masas

Diabloii.Net Member
HafidzMD said:
I had a hybrid which does 5k BS and 14 420dmg skellies, and he was a wonder. (i dont even have to have that many GCs, more space for other things, higher life/resists etc

Now I made this new necro a summoner with 15 900dmg skellies and 3k bone spear, with my merc using pride. hes a slack, killing slower than the first hybrid. Summoning skills are no good except for meat shield. dang. no room (they all full with GCs). *sigh

now for the flaming.
Could you tell your skillpoint distribution and you (+merc's) gear? I wonder where is your problem coming from.
 

HafidzMD

Diabloii.Net Member
Masas said:
Could you tell your skillpoint distribution and you (+merc's) gear? I wonder where is your problem coming from.
Im using:
Shako (um)
marrow (+2)
enigma
homun
2sojs
arach
magefist
AoKL

Merc:
delirium
COH (might use fortitude once he has enought str)
Eth CV Pride

Skills:
20 to RS/SM
1 to clay till summon resist and 1 to iron

others to BS and synergies

1 to amp

he can still kill, but slower than my first hybrid, and i have to sacrifice more items for that AoKL. oh well. my next build should go with poison nova, faster :).

IMHO however, hybrid focused on PNB is the best necro :) safety and killing.
 

HafidzMD

Diabloii.Net Member
HafidzMD said:
Im using:
Shako (um)
marrow (+2)
enigma
homun
2sojs
arach
magefist
AoKL

Merc:
delirium
COH (might use fortitude once he has enought str)
Eth CV Pride

Skills:
20 to RS/SM
1 to clay till summon resist and 1 to iron

others to BS and synergies

1 to amp

he can still kill, but slower than my first hybrid, and i have to sacrifice more items for that AoKL. oh well. my next build should go with poison nova, faster :).

IMHO however, hybrid focused on PNB is the best necro :) safety and killing.

oh and a mara amulet
 

LprMan

Diabloii.Net Member
Why to use Delirium on your necros merc? :scratch:

It only overrides the Amplify dmg you cast...if you need crowd control from AI curses, you can cast them by yourself
 

HafidzMD

Diabloii.Net Member
LprMan said:
Why to use Delirium on your necros merc? :scratch:

It only overrides the Amplify dmg you cast...if you need crowd control from AI curses, you can cast them by yourself
i use them so i dont get caught in while teling to baal, plus i want baal to drop monsters faster in baal games, the consufed monsters counted as dead.

later i will swtich the helm with guillame once i decided i should kill baal

cheerio
still, summoner is weak, bad choice.
 

Masas

Diabloii.Net Member
It is impossible to make a summoner suck with such gear, no matter how hard you try (IMO, of course). Are you (ab)using CE enough? Also, to what builds do you compare him with?
 

Myrakh-2

Diabloii.Net Member
He didn't say his Summoner sucked, he said he was "weak". His description of "weak" is vague at best, so the main "problem" is probably that his "weak" is different from our(?) "weak".

In my book, a character who can solo every area in the game, can deal with every monster the game throws at him, can protect his friends, and slaughter a pack of 5 monsters in the same time as a pack of 50 isn't weak. Considering that all this is possible even with mediocre gear... a lot of the so-called cookie cutter builds will be served back to you on a platter by the chieftain of the first fallen camp they meet, unless they are packed with valuable gear.

His book might be different.
 

HafidzMD

Diabloii.Net Member
Myrakh-2 said:
He didn't say his Summoner sucked, he said he was "weak". His description of "weak" is vague at best, so the main "problem" is probably that his "weak" is different from our(?) "weak".

In my book, a character who can solo every area in the game, can deal with every monster the game throws at him, can protect his friends, and slaughter a pack of 5 monsters in the same time as a pack of 50 isn't weak. Considering that all this is possible even with mediocre gear... a lot of the so-called cookie cutter builds will be served back to you on a platter by the chieftain of the first fallen camp they meet, unless they are packed with valuable gear.

His book might be different.
hmmm, ive heard that a summoner can deal great dmg, hence i made this char, im comparing him with my PNB-focused hybrid, which i loved very much.

It turns out that the summoner is OK, only that it takes him a few seconds more to kill all monsters, and the skellies still rely on my bone spirit to do most of the dmg, which i shouldnt think should be since hes a summoner, the minions should do all the work. Ive also found that the effects of freezing from the pride decreases the number of corpses, so less CEing (yes I do use CE).

my main problem is my internet is not stable, sometimes it can get up to 4000 ping, and having skellies that can deal great dmg can clear the monsters while im lagging, hence i chose the summoner path.

my previous hybrid relies heavily on his bone spear, so the skellies dont do much except for meat shield.

i think i should rephrase it, summoner is not as good as a PNB-hybrid
 

HarbingersOfSkulls

Diabloii.Net Member
Sounds like he should just rebuild it back to his first hybrid of 5k bs damage with the 13-14 skeletons...since he's missing 2k damage.

HoS
 

HafidzMD

Diabloii.Net Member
HarbingersOfSkulls said:
Sounds like he should just rebuild it back to his first hybrid of 5k bs damage with the 13-14 skeletons...since he's missing 2k damage.

HoS
but then, i already have one...

i was thinking, is poison nova necro a faster killer than PNB necro?
I would think so, given right equipment, is there any thread discussing this?
 

Pherdnut

Diabloii.Net Member
He's probably not liking the speed that he's killing bosses at. With damage enhancing aura items skeletons should turn into a power house capable of killing Diablo Clone in seconds. However, without those items skeletons are more of a meat wall against tougher enemies unless they are ganging up on one and you will be relying on your merc to get the first kill in more often than not.

Get rid of the delerium. I dont' think confuse works on Lister anyway. You'll wrap things up a lot faster the sooner your merc makes something dead so you can Corpse Explode. CE is what makes an untwinked necro a fast killer, not his skeletons. Their damage isn't insignifigant but it tends to get spread thin in a big crowd.

Yeah, give poison necro hybrids a whirl if you don't want to have put together Beast, Faith, Infinity, or Pride. Just remember that they aren't as good for MFing since they are a bit more gear intensive. Also, they aren't very fast boss killers either. I can't think of a better option for socketable searching though.

You do have Might merc, I hope.
 

HafidzMD

Diabloii.Net Member
Pherdnut said:
He's probably not liking the speed that he's killing bosses at. With damage enhancing aura items skeletons should turn into a power house capable of killing Diablo Clone in seconds. However, without those items skeletons are more of a meat wall against tougher enemies unless they are ganging up on one and you will be relying on your merc to get the first kill in more often than not.

Get rid of the delerium. I dont' think confuse works on Lister anyway. You'll wrap things up a lot faster the sooner your merc makes something dead so you can Corpse Explode. CE is what makes an untwinked necro a fast killer, not his skeletons. Their damage isn't insignifigant but it tends to get spread thin in a big crowd.

Yeah, give poison necro hybrids a whirl if you don't want to have put together Beast, Faith, Infinity, or Pride. Just remember that they aren't as good for MFing since they are a bit more gear intensive. Also, they aren't very fast boss killers either. I can't think of a better option for socketable searching though.

You do have Might merc, I hope.
I think everyone is confused which necro im talking about.

First Necro, ill name him PNB-hybrid has most skill points in bone spear and synergies, has level 37 raise skeletons, lvl 22 skeleton mastery, bone spear is at level 41. this build uses skeletons primarily for meat shield.

Second Necro, ill name him Summon-hybrid, has 20 skill points for raise and mastery, remaining on bone spear and synergies.

Now, Second Necro, which should be able to kill DiabloClone as what u said, turns out to be not that fast killer when i tested him on baal, PNB-Hybrid kills way faster.

I dont mf or anything, im mostly exp hunter. My point is, still ppl think that a summoner could kill fast etc, which exactly what i heard before i built this char (that rumour still going on), but now that Ive trained him till level 91, he's still a slow killer, unlike the PNB-hybrid. oh these rumours...

so basically, summon-hybrid has lvl47 raise skeleton and lvl 49 mastery, the merc provides might aura and concentration aura, now, even with those, hes not that awesome as what ppl have been saying. !!
 

Pherdnut

Diabloii.Net Member
If the skeletons are only doing 900ish damage it looks like you're not using a might merc. Might merc at level 85 with that pride should put skeleton damage at more like 1400ish which will convert to 2100-2800 (~2450) damage after amp due to varying degrees of physical resistance in Hell.
 

Mad Mantis

D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator
It could be that he is just using a different strategy than the rest of the people. Effective cursing and Gumby use are important. We all know that for fast taking down of bosses CB will be needed.
 

HafidzMD

Diabloii.Net Member
Pherdnut said:
If the skeletons are only doing 900ish damage it looks like you're not using a might merc. Might merc at level 85 with that pride should put skeleton damage at more like 1400ish which will convert to 2100-2800 (~2450) damage after amp due to varying degrees of physical resistance in Hell.
hmm, that 900 dmg is the dmg that the screen shows, i am using might merc as what i said in the later post.

AFAIK, the skeletons dmg on the summon tab does not include might merc (ie it shows the dmg before the +dmg from aura applies)

and to MM, I am using gumby atm, but I will change it to exile golem later for more defense and thorns aura.
 

HafidzMD

Diabloii.Net Member
My whole point of this discussion is that, I am opting for experience. and time is everything,

This build, soloing minions including teleing time and everything, takes him around 5 minutes

In contrast, PNB-Hybrid can kill minions+baal in 5 minutes.
 
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