Summoner HELP!

Stefo

Diabloii.Net Member
Summoner HELP!

I'd like to start the new ladder with a necro, and I like too much the "army" idea, but I really love CE, so...
Is such a build good enough?!

Raise Skeleton 20
Skeleton Mastery 20
Clay Golem 20
Golem Mastery 1
Skeletal Mage 1
Blood Golem 1
Summon Resist 1
Iron Golem 1
Fire Golem 1
Revive 7

Amplify Damage 10
Dim Vision 1
Weaken 1
Confuse 1
Attract 1
Terror 1
Decrepify 1

Teeth 1
CE 20

I aim to have something like +7 to all skills and +3 to summoning skills, because I think I just need high res, life & skills... is it realistic?!

Thanks for help!!!
 

NumtyDoo

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

1 in clay golem is more than enough, after +skills he will still be quite strong, and if he dies just recast him. You can take those saved points and invest in something more useful. Some suggestions of other things to max...

Mages. When combined with tele from enigma, and conviction from infinity, the extra damage really shines. However without these items and a decent amount of +skills they are substantially less useful. Like these guys alot, but pretty gear dependant.

Bone Armor. Put one point in bone armor, rest in bone wall/prison. Useful for taking some extra damage, only works against physical damage. I have not found this to be as useful as DV, but it is still a popular/viable option.

Dim Vision. Blinds all monsters in range, they will not move or fight unless your minions attack them. Helps with safety for necro and can improve killing speed for untwinked characters, as it allows summons to focus damage on 1 baddie at a time.
 

Poppis

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

I agree with NumtyDoo.

1 point in amp and revive is also more than enough.

And why do you have a point in fire golem?
 

lumpor

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

One point in clay golem. Lvl 1 clay golem with +skills, difficulty bonus, lvl 1 golem mastery with + skills and lvl 1 summon resist with +skills really is enough. It will hardly ever die. And dim vision, amplify damage and decreptify will mostly be the only curses you'll be using, so one point each. No curse, except in some builds, deserves more than one point, since all curses except lower resist and iron maiden only recieve radius and duration when you get them to a higher lvl, and lvl 1 with +skills really is enough. 1 point in revives. They aren't as useful as your skeletons, and have a timer, so 1 point with +skills will do it. No fire golem, it does pitiful damage and is only useful for pvp poisonmancer builds or some very few unique builds who specialize in elemental damage. So my basic skill setup would be:
20 raise skeleton
20 skeleton mastery
1 point in all other summoning skills except fire golem
1 point in amplify damage, weaken, terror, decreptify and dim vision
1 point in teeth and corpse explosion

Now that's the basic build. It takes 54 skill points. You now have 56 skill points left. There are these skills to consider:
1. More in corpse explosion
2. 1 point in bone armor and then put points into its synergies
3. More points in golem mastery
4. More points in skeleton mages

1 is very popular and it is quite needed, since corpse explosion is a skill that almost all necromancer use, and for a good reason. I wouldn't max it though. You can put a couple of points here early put I wouldn't say more than 10 until you're done with everything else.
2. I don't like this one. The thing about a summonancer is to not get hit. The minions are the ones who are supposed to get hit. Also, it takes way too many skill points to be effective.
3. Now this is only if you want to make an aura golem (an iron golem out of a runeword that has an aura. Pride, for example). Aura golems are expensive, so you don't want them to die. And this skill prevents them from dying. Iron golems can poof though, so this is only suggested for the rich. Iron golems stay after logging out if you didn't know that. If you're using clay golem, don't put more than 1 point into this skill. If you're going to make an aura golem, try to experiment first with golems made out of daggers to see how often they die. If they easily survive when you only have 5 points in golem mastery, then keep it at 5. Experiment until you've found the right value to be sure the golem doesn't die.
4. Skeleton mages are controversial. Some people hate them, some people love them. I wouldn't suggest them if you don't have enigma and infinity. If you only have 1 of them, or none of them, don't put points here. They need both of those items to reach their full potential. If you want to get them, max them. Personally I like them. It's always good to have an addition to your army.

My prefered build is:
20 rs
20 sm
20 skeletal mages
1 decreptify, dim vision, revive, summon resist, corpse explosion and all prerequisites

Split the rest into corpse explosion and golem mastery. If you're satisfied with both skills without maxing them, you can get lower resist too (in case you want to help your mages, or to power up corpse explosion against physical immunes). But only get lower resist if you're sure you're done with the other 5 main skills.

Also, get more + to summoning skills. Resists,life and defence aren't important at all. Your army is protecting you, remember? Your firs tpriority in equipment is beneficial auras (might from merc, and make him wield an infinity, while you wield a beast axe, and if you want to, an iron golem out of pride). Your priority after auras is +skills, and after that defence (don't go for max block. If an enemy hits you, most of your army is probably gone. And if your army is gone you have to flee. And full vita builds have lower chances to get in both blocklocks or stunlocks). Offence doesn't matter at all, since you won't be fighting yourself. Except in some builds. But they don't focus on physical damage, they focus on crushing blow, and tehey're mostly for fun
 

JubalBane

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

I drop 1 pt in all curses and if I have points left over I develop Dim Vision. After CE SM RS Skel Mages of course. ;)
The one thing I disagree with Lumpor on is resist. For me they are more important than +skill equipment. Especially Lightning and Fire. Fire walls can really mess your day up and the lightning attacks from Souls seem to go right through your army. I used to let my resistances go but I got tired of getting "one shotted" by souls.
For me it is resists, life, +skills and that is it. Defense is useless imho as I only really CE and raise the dead. My army does my attacking for me and I just spend most of my time positioning my forces and getting out of the way of the monsters. :)
 

galzohar

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

If you're not going for decent resists, as said, at least get lightning resist to avoid getting pwned by souls. You can't dodge 100% of their attacks and the few attacks that do hit you even if you try to run will hurt a lot.

Maxing RS>SM>CE>everything else, really. CE radius is *that* good, but not good enough if you can't get that first corpse fast enough. Not to mention at the lower difficulties skeletons and merc will be killing so fast you won't even find yourself CEing *too* much. But once you have strong melee skeletons CE is the best place to put skill points. Of course 1 point in each of the useful curses and summoning skills should be done as soon as you're high enough level to get them, before maxing the main skills. It's just 1 point and it goes a long way (at least the *good* ones like amp, golem, golem mastery, summon resist, revives). But again don't put more than 1 point in anything until you maxed RS+SM+CE.
 

Stefo

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

Why did I put 1 in fire golem?! I really don't know... and more than 1 in clay golem is actually nonsense, I started wandering about a 10K hit points golem... but I can summon a new one when the 4K one dies!
I just don't like mages... I should chose between lower resist and amplify dmg, it's a too difficult choice!
And isn't 1 pt in amp dmg a bit too low? it's 6.6 Yards, but I don't know how much a yard is! And Attract can't be useful to have the fast first kill?

So I should make something like:

Raise Skeleton 20
Skeleton Mastery 20
Clay Golem 1
Golem Mastery 1
Skeletal Mage 1
Blood Golem 1
Summon Resist 1
Iron Golem 1
Revive 1+

Amplify Damage 1+
Dim Vision 1
Weaken 1
Confuse 1
Attract 1
Terror 1
Decrepify 1

Teeth 1
CE 20

With 35 pts (lvl 99) left for the "+"s or bone armour (1pt + synergies)

I would start the new ladder, so I don't think I'm going to own Infinity or Beast Runewords, at least not soon! But I'll try to get Auras, Res, Life and + Skills!

I think that's all... is it a bit better? ^^
 

lumpor

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

1 point amp really is enough. And since your skeletons are doing physical damage, amp is way better than lower resist for almost any situation. I don't know about confuse or attract. Personally I don't like them. they're not as straightforward as amp. Revive only one point too, you will regret it if you put too many points there. Bone armor requires too many points to be of any good use except for boners.
 

s4nder

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

Just read the fishymancer guide that is stickied in this forum. You won't "regret" anything with this build as it is complete in 60 points.

One point in amp means you will be casting it multiple times to cover the whole screen when there are lots of enemies around. You will be casting it a lot. Way inconvenient if you ask me. 10 points and +skills means you only have to cast it once, saving time, and time is money.

Fire golem sucks for its damage, yeah, but that's not the point. Its fire aura will aggro monsters that the skeletons haven't attacked yet, so they won't attack you.

Definitely max corpse explosion as it is your main damage skill. One of the best in the game in fact. Your skeles are mostly there for crowd control, you only need one corpse for the fight to be over.

20 RS
20 SM
20 CE
10+ Amp
1 Clay Golem, Fire Golem, Summon Resist, Attract, Decrepify, Revive (you may add more to revives if you're low on + skills, they make a decent meat shield)

Other than that it is up to you.
 

Stefo

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

So... let's try again! This should be Lvl 99 skill distribution!

Teeth 1
CE 20
Raise Skeleton 20
Skeleton Mastery 20
Clay Golem 1
Golem Mastery 1
Skeletal Mage 20
Blood Golem 1
Summon Resist 1
Iron Golem 1
Revive 5
Amplify Damage 10
Curses 1

I should max RS, SM, CE asap, then I don't know, I think I'll just decide in game!

But... Which Golem to chose? I personally like Clay Golem (high life, slows enemies down...)

And Gear is another matter... I could (as final equip) wear my merc with Infinity, Brumble and Dream Runewords for auras, so I could get tons of + Skill hot stuff (Homunculus, Arm of KL, Enigma, Mara's Kaleidoscope, Marrowwolk...) XD

Thanks a lot!!!!
 

lumpor

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

Skip 5 points in revive. Almost everyone I've seen reccommends only 1 point. And I tested a lvl 3 amp damage, and it covers about half the screen. I have no problems at all with it.

And as for the golem, fire golem isn't necessary. Why distract enemies to the fire golem, when the skeletons are completely fine? If your skeletons die because your fire golem didn't distract them, your skeletons are too weak. Clay golem is the way to go for the poor-rich, and iron golems are for super-rich people.

Also, dream isn't necessary for your merc. It's an attack aura, not a support aura. And the lightning damage will suck unless you synergize it or have lightning mastery (and necros can't do either). Bramble isn't really needed, since the life/damage ratio for monsters is way too high. I'd say get a might merc with infinity, wield "beast" yourself, and if you're super-rich, get a pride golem.
 

buttershug

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

I only recently tried using Attract and it worked much better than I had expected. When there is a large group of monsters. Amp them all then use Attract on one in front. The nearby monsters stop hitting on your skellies and that monster goes down a little faster and then you can CE him.

But I played self found only so my army doesn't kill everything in half a second.
 

s4nder

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

I recommend the Fire Golem because I actually notice it's doing something. I've seen several times how angry monsters who've got past the skeles have been hit by the aura's aoe damage, turn around and engage the golem. The Clay Golem does nothing in general pve. It just sits there with its 7 damage and 10000 life, slowing down Fallens who will be dead the moment I right click Corpse Explosion. Great for bosses though. Which is why I recommend using the Clay Golem for bosses and Fire Golem for everything else.

I do realise that the Fire Golem is mainly useful in Hardcore mode which I play. I have made several Guardian summoners, not to say that it's a hard thing to do but I do speak from experience rather than word of mouth. Surviving is second rate in Softcore and there an Iron Golem made from any decent weapon gives the most dps and is thus most useful.

I personally find 1 point in Amp lacking but it's up to everyone for themselves to decide. After the mandatory 20 RS/SM/CE skill point allocation is complete, I go for convenience, ease of play and speed since with max CE the damage isn't getting much higher anyway. Having Amp cover more than a whole camp of Fallens is pretty convenient if you ask me :p.

Revives can be nice, with the damage bonus from Skeleton Mastery and Might aura they can in fact deal out some nice damage, the problem is that they're kinda dumb and slow so having too many of them can get tiring. 1 point is enough if you have lots of +skills, around eight of them can still be kept up fairly easily.

There's really not much to debate here, just play the necro and see what you like, as long as you've got your skeles and CE, it's gonna be a breeze through all three difficulties.
 

bmathew

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

Teeth 1
CE 20
Raise Skeleton 20
Skeleton Mastery 20
Clay Golem 1
Golem Mastery 1
Skeletal Mage 20
Blood Golem 1
Summon Resist 1
Iron Golem 1
Revive 5
Amplify Damage 10
Curses 1
Hi,
CE, RS, SM and SM is fine. Provided you like mages. I find them useful against PIs. Putting 10 in Amp is kind of a waste in my opinion. If you ever plan on using an Aura Goelm (Insight or something else) then the HP of the Golem needs to be quite high. Id actually put those points in Golem Mastery instead. betweent he above skellie warriors and mages you will barely have the time to summon all those Revives and further they tend to wander off and get lost.

But... Which Golem to chose? I personally like Clay Golem (high life, slows enemies down...)
Clay Golems are fine . They are cheap to cast and it does slow the monster to a good limit. if you want an Aura then you obviously would use Iron Golem though.

And Gear is another matter... I could (as final equip) wear my merc with Infinity, Brumble and Dream Runewords for auras, so I could get tons of + Skill hot stuff (Homunculus, Arm of KL, Enigma, Mara's Kaleidoscope, Marrowwolk...) XD
I think Infinity with your other good gear should be good enough to get through 8 player games :) . I dont have anything near to the above gear and Im half way through hell using /players 4.

The Clay Golem does nothing in general pve. It just sits there with its 7 damage and 10000 life, slowing down Fallens who will be dead the moment I right click Corpse Explosion. Great for bosses though
If you plan on MFing Gumby is more than enough for you to move from Decrep to Amp. But then again folks with Awesome gear this shouldn't be a problem.
 

Devouress

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

I would suggest getting lower resist instead of 10 in amp, since LR is very useful in baalruns and everyone will love you for that.
 

HCKull

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Summoner HELP!

Your forgetting the power of dim vision. It stops most bad guys in their tracks so they cant attack you and your guys can take them on 1 at a time. I like to max it and find that it controls the battle field and allows you to easily defeat the normal monsters as they just stand there. It helps against the elites also as it allows you to seperate them from the normal monsters where after decrep they are easier to defeat.
 
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