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SUmmon bear or dire wolf?

Discussion in 'Druid' started by Madagou, Nov 14, 2006.

  1. Madagou

    Madagou IncGamers Member

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    SUmmon bear or dire wolf?

    Which is better?
    I'm a pure titan build fury, max HoW, only pvm, merc has conc, might and thorns aura from bramble.

    I'm thinking that mayb the dire wolves with the auras will be better than the one bear, plus thorns would be better with mor minions
     
  2. pedu

    pedu IncGamers Member

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    I dont think the bear is worth the extra points. It will still be so weak. But let the pros get a word in.
     
  3. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    If you want your minion to deal damage, then a Max Grizzly is the way to go. If you just want your minions to be meat shields, then max Dire Wolves, and then use Grizzly as a supertank or the Dires as smaller mini-tanks.
     
  4. Lord Nyax

    Lord Nyax Banned

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    Quick question: Why a Titan? Your life is gonna be...low...and your damage really won't be that much higher...

    Otherwise...the Grizzly is a better individual tank than a Dire Wolf, but there are two more wolfies for scary monsters to kill if you use them...more things to kill = you getting killed less.

    If you're going to be a Shape Shifter, your summons probably aren't going to be fantastic as it is. I'd say max Dire Wolves, as that would increase your Bear's life too, via the passive synergy. That way you could have a pretty good bear tank, and still have high level Dire Wolves.

    Oh well...have fun.
     
  5. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Hey, if we all just made the most efficient build possible, every character would be a Hammerdin.:tongue:



     
  6. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

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    I sincerely hope you meant to say "Summoner Necromancer" instead of "Hammerdin.:tongue:" :tongue:



     
  7. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    If Summoner Necros were so efficient, there would be dozens of Baal-running botscripts for them.:laugh:



     
  8. Mitch Turnbuckle

    Mitch Turnbuckle IncGamers Member

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    As stated above, Grizzly is the best tank summon in the whole game (well maybe a faded high level shadow warrior, but Grizzly has way more HP + knockback). Dire wolves if used with Oak Sage will be able to hold out alright, but they will be doing more damage (at similar levels) to more enemies than the Grizzly once they eat some dead. Spirit wolves are yet another way in which Blizzard screws the Druid, class as they are only useful for their defense synergy. . .
     
  9. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    I dunno about that. I love the Spirit Wolves. They're phenominal all through Nightmare, and even in Hell they're handy against swarms of low-damage enemies (like Leapers and Flayers). They're also handy in situations where you're willing to spam minions, because a wall of 5 summons is sturdier than a wall of 3 summons. Most of the time they're inferior to Dires, but they do have their uses.



     
  10. Lord Nyax

    Lord Nyax Banned

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    Repeat that first line again, only say it to my 57k Clay Golem please. Or my 7.5k Valk. Bear is a useful tank, but if you want the best tank, Clay Golem = :king:. You can use a Bear to do damage though...that's his useful attribute. Of all the Druid Summons, the Bear has the single highest amount of life, so versus single Monsters I'd recommend Bear (if he isn't getting 1-2 hit). It can get complicated, but using the Bear is usually the best idea overall...



     
  11. dodobird

    dodobird IncGamers Member

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    I agree with the bear route, and thats the way I went. Mostly because recasti those 5 wolves constantly makes my blood boil. Now if only there'd be a big ostrich that lasts a bit instead of them ravens...


    -Dodo
     
  12. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

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    Ostriches can't fly. Perhaps give it a jetpack? He can peck and burn enemies from above.
     
  13. Mitch Turnbuckle

    Mitch Turnbuckle IncGamers Member

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    "I dunno about that. I love the Spirit Wolves. They're phenominal all through Nightmare, and even in Hell they're handy against swarms of low-damage enemies (like Leapers and Flayers)."

    I agree that they definitely have their uses for crowd control, but only in my opinion in conjunction with Oak Sage (or maybe a defiance merc). Otherwise they just die all the time. Also, they do almost negligible damage unless 20 points have been sunk into Grizzly for the synergy.

    "Repeat that first line again, only say it to my 57k Clay Golem please. Or my 7.5k Valk."

    I totally forgot about Clay Golem! I will agree that it probably is the best straight tank, however it does no damage, and you'll usually have an army of Skeletons, Revives, Skeleton Mages, Curses, or the famous Corpse Explosion to back it up. A poor Druid has just the one Grizzly!
    7500 life for a Valk? You must have a LOT of + skills! Grizzly is also the ONLY available option for tanking bosses with a Druid, and can get over 4000 life just through putting points into Dire Wolf. This is with 0 + skills by the way. I guess he could make a Stone RW for the Clay Golem charges, and have the best of both worlds!
     
  14. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Oak Sage is almost useless for summons, IMO. In hell difficulty, each point in Oak Sage will increase Spirit Wolf life by 3.5 points (so going from a slvl 1 OS to a slvl 21 OS will boost spirit wolves by just 75 HP :sad2: ). The Dire Wolf synergy provides a much, much, much greater life boost (18 life per point, counting +skills).

    I always use HoW instead of Oak with my summons, no matter what they are. OS provides the following boost for each point after the first:
    Spirit Wolves: 3.5 hp per point
    Dire Wolves: 5.67 hp per point
    Grizzly: 32.5 hp per point

    No matter what your skill levels are, those values are fixed- each point in Oak Sage will ALWAYS boost the summons' life exactly like that, never more and never less. Compare this to HoW:
    Spirit Wolves: 9.5 damage per point
    Dire Wolves: 15.5 damage per point
    Grizzly: 51 damage per point

    When you factor in the AR boost, I just feel like HoW provides a much more substantial boost to your summons than Oak Sage. Also, Defiance Mercs probably won't make much difference with your summons, since their base defense ranges from 67 (Spirit Wolves) to 250 (Grizzly). So even if you tripled the spirit wolves' defense, that's only an extra 134 points of Defense. So in other words, there's no way to make them capable of tanking in Hell- you're better off getting a Holy Freeze merc to slow the enemies down (so your wolves last longer).

    As far as damage goes, though... Spirit Wolves will deal as much damage per second as the Dire Wolves, assuming you can keep them alive. 5 Spirit Wolves will always deal more damage than 3 Dire Wolves of the same level, although they'll deal less damage once the Dires eat some corpses and get enraged.



     
  15. xpumafangx

    xpumafangx IncGamers Member

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    OMG the crap people write when im gone.

    First off over all if your doing pvp spirit wolves out do every other meat sheild summons out there no matter what. You can summon 5 of them. All summons work like extra targets. As for say if a foh, zealot, fury wolf, guided arrow zon. try to target you they will instead target your summons first. Since spirit wolves have 5, dire 3, and bear 1. Then spirit wins out hands down. The damage of all of them is too weak to be useful, and so is theyre life. Also the best summon druid player I have ever known used spirit wolves because with theyre high lvl skills, and other items they used. They where about to out do in the damage and life department then dire wolves and a bear.

    If you are doing player vs monster and need a meat sheild with any werewolf build your doing the werewolf build wrong. Titen wolves are not a good ideal for a pvm build.
     
  16. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    So? Who says builds have to be ideal? If I saw you running around with a Zealot, should I tell you that you built your Paladin wrong because Zealots aren't as ideal as Hammerdins?

    It's more important to make a FUN character than it is to make an uberl33tsuperperfect ideal character.



     
  17. xpumafangx

    xpumafangx IncGamers Member

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    I do run around with a zealot. And I can rush all most as fast as a hammerdin with one too. Ever kill hammy with zealot? Its fun.
     
  18. Mitch Turnbuckle

    Mitch Turnbuckle IncGamers Member

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    If you really wanted to, you could just put 15-20 (depending on how many points you want to devote to summons) points into Dire Wolves & Grizzly, and with + skills you could have the best of both worlds. Grizzly for stronger targets, and Dire Wolves for groups.
     
  19. Madagou

    Madagou IncGamers Member

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    Thx for all your advice guys, i went dire wolves and they worked great, but i realised summons were uselss when u do 22k damage and your the one killing everything, but i guess its good for nightmare rushes.

    I LIKED my druid it was alot of fun, but as of 5hrs ago i got hacked of all my GG items, so i bid d2 farewell, shame i was hoping to make a name for myself in the druid forum, give free items/rushes and all that.
     
  20. Kirah

    Kirah IncGamers Member

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    Whoa... sorry to hear about the hack. But don't give up, make a new wolfie and have a different password! Wolves are fun!

    Good luck and good hunting!
    Kirah



     

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