Suggestions for Summoner

Excalibur

Diabloii.Net Member
Hi guys,

I've recently completed my necro summoner. It was a very fun experience and and the journey was quite easy as well.

However, although it's not much threatening on P8 my minions take much much much longer to kill stuff. Corpse explosion is doing wonders on p1 but on p8 it's a lot weaker.

I was expecting things to be better since my minions are buffed with Might, Concentration and Fanaticism auras and on top of that enemies are also cursed with amplify. I seriously didn't expect minions to take so long to bring mobs down. Baal runs are quite lengthy on p8.

Few questions I have:

1. I've maxed Skeleton Mastery and Skeletons and Corpse Explosion. Where would you suggest putting rest points? I've added a few points to Clay Golem as well and I still have 20+ remaining.

2. What do you usually socket your items with? I have a 2os Circlet and I can't think of anything useful to add.

3. What kind of Hireling do you usually trying to get? Supportive or offensive? I noticed that the hireling perhaps should be the killer otherwise on p8 you are going to wait forever to even get a corpse to summon something.

4. Should I use bramble on hireling for the thorns aura? Or it's quite useless on p8 as well?

I would appreciate any further suggestions you may have to improve him on p8.

Gear:
Weapon: Arm of King Leoric (with 1 open socket)
(Beast on switch)
Armor: Enigma
Helm: Circlet with +3 to summonings (with 2 open sockets)
Shield: Boneflame (+3 to skills)
Gloves: Trangouls
Belt: Arach's
Boots: Marrowalk
Rings: x2 Bull kathos
(was using wisp protecter for the heart of wolverine but that spirit is constantly dying in no time)
Amulet: +3 to summonings

Skeletons are at 45 skill level and Skeleton mastery at 47
 

frozzzen

Diabloii.Net Member
You don't have Infinity. That's major problem imo. -85% defense from conviction aura gives your minions almost ITD attack which is much more significant than Pride ED. Also it boosts CE fire component which is welcome bonus.
This one you should certainly get. Also helps your merc
Bramble is worthless on merc. Get Andy and CoH for +4skills that amp up his aura. Or Guil's head if you want more cb/getting first corpse faster.

Try getting 75 fcr if at all possible. Spirit > good DFS > Boneflame as far as shields goes. Spirit Arach Trangs can get you to 75 fcr np. With some stretching you can even get 125 (2/20 helm, amulet and 10fcr ring) but don't think it's worth it.

Get iron golem. Can't stress this enough. You can even go fancy and make Pride IG at some point, but insight for unlimited mana is top choice. Kelpie is nice if you don't have mana problems and don't want to dabble with decrep on bosses. I'd still go with insight.

No clue about your survivability, or your mercs or golem, but imo cta would probably be better than AoKl. +1 skill increases your merc aura, all your skills, and after skellies are out, you can buff them once more for +1 skill, ultimately serving as +2 from BC alone. BO should allow you to play more aggressively and maximize your damage output easier.

You can dump remaining skill points into poison nova. It's not much but it can get you corpses for raising army on p1 faster as well as do some supplementary damage while there aren't bodies out for CE. Better than walking in pindle's garden, walking back to wp etc. It's better than investing into bone armor or something silly, as you would have enough life with cta buff. If you forgo +3 helm for 2allskills and amulet (Shako + Mara's) you could get as high as 2500 poison nova damage.

Imo stacking summoning skills won't help you as much as actually making balanced character and learning to play with him especially. Learning how to play him properly will make most difference.
 

Excalibur

Diabloii.Net Member
Wow, seems like there's a lot of stuff to fix. :eek:

You don't have Infinity. That's major problem imo. -85% defense from conviction aura gives your minions almost ITD attack which is much more significant than Pride ED. Also it boosts CE fire component which is welcome bonus.
This one you should certainly get. Also helps your merc
Bramble is worthless on merc. Get Andy and CoH for +4skills that amp up his aura. Or Guil's head if you want more cb/getting first corpse faster.
Ok noted. Gonna borrow my Javazon's infinity and try it out. Does infinity boost both the physical and fire damage of corpse explosion?

Try getting 75 fcr if at all possible. Spirit > good DFS > Boneflame as far as shields goes. Spirit Arach Trangs can get you to 75 fcr np. With some stretching you can even get 125 (2/20 helm, amulet and 10fcr ring) but don't think it's worth it.
To tell you the truth, I am not having an FCR issues. Even on switch with Beast I am quite satisfied! But I am going to try a Spirit Shield as well.

Get iron golem. Can't stress this enough. You can even go fancy and make Pride IG at some point, but insight for unlimited mana is top choice. Kelpie is nice if you don't have mana problems and don't want to dabble with decrep on bosses. I'd still go with insight.
Hmmm.... I currently love the Clay Golem since he seriously never dies and slows bosses a lot. To tell you the truth I haven't really used an Iron Golem before and I quite hesitate to summon him on items. How much does he survives? I am also a bit worried about my survivability though. Whenever I teleport I am the first target mobs tend to hit.
If I go with an Iron Golem, do I need to max him out or he barely gets any better?

No clue about your survivability, or your mercs or golem, but imo cta would probably be better than AoKl. +1 skill increases your merc aura, all your skills, and after skellies are out, you can buff them once more for +1 skill, ultimately serving as +2 from BC alone. BO should allow you to play more aggressively and maximize your damage output easier.
I would agree with AoKl since most of the time I use Beast. Do you really think CtA boosts that much damage?

Imo stacking summoning skills won't help you as much as actually making balanced character and learning to play with him especially. Learning how to play him properly will make most difference.
I usually have a persistence on avoiding hybrid chars as much as I can but you are probably right. However, I have to say that I heavily struggle even with other necro chars (one pure poison and one pure bone) on players 8. Not quite sure how much Poison Nova will help me here but as an alternative way of dealing damage it can't be bad.

Thanks for all the help.
 

frozzzen

Diabloii.Net Member
Infinity increases only fire component of CE. You still increase physical part with amp regardless.

As far as Iron Golem is concerned, I've been leveling necros in pit. I have three and they are lvl 97 96 and 94. In at that time playing on p7/8 for XP hunts, my golem died only 2-4 times before I died. He only died when archers fried me and golem dies as a result (so in case you didn't know, IG dies when your summoner dies). Might be slightly offputting I know, but he is really durable, and you can make insight from random 4os cracked scythe. He is there only to provide aura. You could make him in 1.07 polearm if you have steady access to those yourself (not trading) to help your merc brining first couple monsters down for you to start CE chain, but I don't think it's necessary. Only for enthusiasts :)

As far as CtA goes, that's only thing I really can't say I'm sure. AoKL does provide decent damage increase, and cta doesn't provide as much. That is certain. However, I've been playing with cta for so long that I can hardly see it as something optional on character. Helps your survivability, merc and golem will also appreciate it. I just think it's more balanced option overall, but if you think you are fine without CtA and want to focus on dps, by all means go for it. You could try and see what works better for you.

Regarding poison nova and fcr, those are just my own personal perks on this build. I'm sure one nova in this setup will deal less damage than one CE, but when there's nothing to do it's not worst thing in the world to throw massive AoE spell to weaken stuff around you, even if not by much. It's not core of build by any means. It's just situational supplement. If choices are between making your already immortal golem even more immortal, pumping bone armor that probably won't get used much because of all meat shield stuff you already have or stuff that won't help as much, then weak pnova for softening stuff will be more beneficial. Not much but something.
I personally can't stand slow teleporting and stuff. 75 fcr is minimum I'd use on any necro so that's only suggestion. But if you compare Spirit with Boneflame, it's quite easy to see which has more beneficial and relevant mods.
 

Excalibur

Diabloii.Net Member
Okay mate, you've covered me. Thanks for your time, I may post something later once I try most of your suggestions. :)
 

Cyrax

Diabloii.Net Member
For the necro i'd do beast with CtA on switch. The CtA would be to increase life for skellies (in case of bad Lister spawn), merc, golem and youself. Last one is also significant. Without it you stay behind your skeleton wall, but with it you can play more offensive and telebomb stuff.

As far as golem goes: I too was very hesitant to make the switch from clay to iron. But i'm glad i did make it. Iron golem isn't worth putting points in. Damage will never be anything close to significant. Max golem mastery and he'll very seldomly die (i think mine died once from 98 -> 99). Making it from insight helps with chain CE-ing stuff and is cheap to replace (While playing gather parts so you have one or two spare. That way you can instantly replace it if/when necessary).

Other points can go into the golem that gives even more life (blood i think it is), or a bone armor synergy. Even sturdier golem is a bit overkill, so i prefer a stronger bone armor. Combined with the BO from CtA it allows me to telebomb even Lister gang.

Spirit imo isn't necessary. I used boneflame too for regular play and the shield that gives +1 for BO since spirit's strenght requirement was too high. I preferred spending the extra points in vita instead. If you plan on running something, get a good map and you don't need many tele's to throne so FCR isn't that important.

Best weapon for merc depends on what you're running. Anything excluding Baal top notch would be BotD. If you include Baal or don't have BotD then infinity is what you'll want.

Lastly go to Pindle garden for getting an army. I've tried raising it as i went in the throneroom. Sometimes it works reasonably well, but it depends on what you encounter there. Lots of dolls? Expect them to chase you instead of being safely behind skellie army. Empty throne? Then you only have golem + merc. They can kill, but you may not have a full army until first two waves are done which is annoying and since you need skellies, you can't use (chain) CE to speed things up.

If you want to know more about how i played, check out the 99 thread. Or ask more questions here. ;)
 

Excalibur

Diabloii.Net Member
For the necro i'd do beast with CtA on switch. The CtA would be to increase life for skellies (in case of bad Lister spawn), merc, golem and youself. Last one is also significant. Without it you stay behind your skeleton wall, but with it you can play more offensive and telebomb stuff.
I am already convinced to switch to cta and beast!

As far as golem goes: I too was very hesitant to make the switch from clay to iron. But i'm glad i did make it. Iron golem isn't worth putting points in. Damage will never be anything close to significant. Max golem mastery and he'll very seldomly die (i think mine died once from 98 -> 99). Making it from insight helps with chain CE-ing stuff and is cheap to replace (While playing gather parts so you have one or two spare. That way you can instantly replace it if/when necessary).
I am just still wondering how much mana problems a summoner has. Once he gets his summons it seems like he doesn't need that much mana. Anyway, is that the main reason players prefer an iron golem over a clay one?

Spirit imo isn't necessary. I used boneflame too for regular play and the shield that gives +1 for BO since spirit's strenght requirement was too high. I preferred spending the extra points in vita instead. If you plan on running something, get a good map and you don't need many tele's to throne so FCR isn't that important.
Yeah I am a bit skeptical here on eventually what to use. Using engima grants you a lot of str though but currently I'll stick with Boneflame.

If you want to know more about how i played, check out the 99 thread. Or ask more questions here.
Thanks for all the help and for your time. Unfortunately, I still haven't found some time to test the changes Frozzen already posted but once I do I'll probably come back with more questions. :)
 
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