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Student punished for not saying "under God" ifra

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Underseer, Apr 4, 2004.

  1. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    Student punished for not saying "under God"

    http://www.tribnet.com/news/story/4913718p-4848428c.html

    Ugh.
     
  2. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    Just for the record, there is a Supreme Court case relevant to this situation:

    http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/barnette.html

    If are atheist or agnostic or of some other religion, you are specifically allowed to omit the phrase "under God" when reciting the pledge. As if freedom of speech and freedom from religion didn't already make this amply clear.
     
  3. dantose

    dantose IncGamers Member

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    While I don't think that "under God" shoud be removed from the pledge I do think that those who do not beleive in god shouldn't have to say it. Amazing, I agree with underseer :thumbsup:
     
  4. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    Yup... America, the world's leader of freedom and individual rights... yesirree... :rolleyes:
     
  5. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    That's not the issue, the issue is if omitting it constitutes a personal message, as one is apparently not allowed to do so using school property in this district.

    The real question is: Does omitting (or including) "under God" in the pledge imply a personal message?

    Frankly, I don't think it does, but apparently this school district did.

    The thing that upsets me the most about this article are these two phrases:

    "..the words 'under God' should be removed from the pledge because it violates the constitutional separation of church and state."

    and

    "Newdow thinks Hess was upholding the constitution, which bars the government from involving itself in religion."

    I don't really see either of these being true. The government can't force a national religion upon anyone, but it doesn't mean they are to exclude themselves from church affairs. The "separation church and state" is not constiutional, it's court-imposed.
     
  6. dantose

    dantose IncGamers Member

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    Aero, I don't think people should be forced to say the "under God". He was wrong for not informing them before hand that he would not recite that section and I can see him getting punished for that (if he had notified them they could have had some one else do it and avioded the whole situation). If he was trying to make some kind of statement by it then he was in the wrong and deserves what ever the standard punishment is.
     
  7. SquareRootOfBob

    SquareRootOfBob IncGamers Member

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    The pledge didn't always have the phrase, "under god" in it. For all they know, someone who doesn't include that phrase is simply making a historical reference to how the pledge used to be. ;) The phrase serves no purpose, so I say get rid of it.
     
  8. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    I don't think people should be forced to say it either. If you want to say it, fine. If you don't want to say it, also fine. Makes no difference to me. Then again, should they even be forced to say the pledge every day?
     
  9. LuckyDwarf

    LuckyDwarf IncGamers Member

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    You're right, I believe it was added in the 1950's during the whole communist scare McCarthy ( Think that's the spelling... ) crap. The only thing that angers me about that entire quote is that the kid gave in easily, saying he was sorry. I mean, follow through with it...

    Lucky
     
  10. zodiac66

    zodiac66 IncGamers Member

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    IMO students are punished for the silliest things today. Calling someone a Mexican, not saying Under God, but they can physically assualt another student and get the same punishment. I don't understand it.
     
  11. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    The only issue is that someone from Spanaway Lake finally decided to think for themselves. About freakin' time. Spanaway Lake blows.

    Personally, instead of saying "under God", I always said, "Doo-dah". You know, because I like horse racing. Of course, I was 9 the last time I said the pledge.
     
  12. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

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    Was he punished because he didn't say "Under God" or because he altered the text displayed on the screen to not say "Under God" anymore?
     
  13. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    1953 I think. Yeah, either way the use of "under God" in the pledge is no more than 50 years old.
     
  14. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    The very next year, congress passed a law stating that "In God We Trust" must appear on all currency.
     
  15. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    So nice of them to speak for everyone in the nation... even those who don't trust in god. ;)
     
  16. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    I guess freedom of religion only applies if you ascribe to one of the Officially Approved Religions.
     
  17. Starfishied

    Starfishied IncGamers Member

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    I don't believe in god but I said it anyway. Well of course, I was stupid at that time. If I would have known, I'd probably wouldn't say it neither. Even now, I just pause after "one nation" and wait until other people finish their "god". Luckily, I never have to recite it again after 6th grade.


    What, just because you don't believe in god, you have to inform someone ahead? Geez!!!11!111! Kinda stupid to me.
     
  18. Damascus

    Damascus IncGamers Member

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    I am now informing everyone I do not believe in god. If I fail to mention god, I am not "making a statement"
     
  19. SquareRootOfBob

    SquareRootOfBob IncGamers Member

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    I don't believe in God either, but I still say it. Since they're making such a big deal about taking it out, hearing those words must make them feel better about themselves.
     
  20. Choogy

    Choogy IncGamers Member

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    Okay...nowhere does it directly say anything about church and state being separated in the constitution...the only thing is about it is the 1st amendment, where you can have your free speech, practice the religion you choose and the state won't hurt nor help any religions...

    in school you lose some of those rights, and to remove something from the Pledge of Allegiance and proclaim it to the school is still not a smart thing to do. Okay, he doenst have to say it if he doesnt want to, but that doesnt give him the right to cut it out...i mean, Oh no! he hates Alaskans! how about he cut out one of the stars...(oh yea, we dont need to see it...it was only added in 1948 during the Cold war) I mean, cmon...
    and i'm sorry if this analogy is a bit extreme but the united states government added it, CONGRESS added it, and some snotty little athiest has no right to remove EVERYONE'S right to say it in that school "to prove we don't have to hear it"

    (Also, BTW...San Fran is really F***ed up...1st the "Under God" is unconstitutional, then the illegal *** marriages...(apologies to whoever lives there, no offense to you but just to the local government))
     

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