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Strongest Monster

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Drystan, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. Drystan

    Drystan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Strongest Monster

    I've decided to give 1.07 a try, and with that, out come my old chars.

    Anyway, last night, I witnessed the strongest monster in a /pl8 Baal run I've come across - running more to gain the level than anything else. This was one mean beast, doing an ***-whooping 1000 minimum damage, with the max damage I noticed being around 1500 hitpoints. And he could kill the merc in 3-5 hits, even after BO.
    Luckily, he wasn't the PI/stone skin that can regenerate quickly.

    This was on a Eth Oath 'zerker axe, Death's Cleaver, Fortitude, Gore's, SoE etc Lvl 87 WW Barb, with an Eth Obedience CA Might merc, so he wasn't poorly equipped.

    Anyone know approximately how much damage he'd be doing on /pl1, based on the numbers above and/or the expected based on data?

    And for those full clearers, how would you have taken him out with any class if you came up against him while questing? (And yes, he'd be easier with a sorc - tele/cast/repeat.)

    All up, it took about 6 merc revivals, lots of running in circles while health potions slowly put me up to full hps, all my juvies, lots of potions to finally teach him who's boss.

    Also, feel free to post pics of the worst monster roll you've come across recently, and how much damage it has done in one hit.
     
  2. Serdash

    Serdash Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    wat




    Also, I'd probably just drag him to a corner and park him. Probably was carrying a couple blues and some random pots anyways. Otherwise it'd be a huge waste of time, IMO. (Also, if I had to kill him, I would just hit him with stuff until he died. Drink a potion or six if necessary. I mean is there really strategy needed in this game anymore?)



     
  3. Lexikon

    Lexikon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    +6,25% damage per player, so 1000-1500 damage at p8 means 696-1043 damage at p1.


    80-120 base damage
    (+70-80 fire)

    lvl88 -> might level [**/6]=14 -> 170ed
    extra strong -> 99ed
    BloodLordFrenzy level 8 -> I can't find a damage bonus here, just velocity and attack speed :scratchchin:
    Sum: 269 ed

    => 295-442 damage (365-522 with fire)
    a factor of 2 missing... maybe BloodLordFrenzy has some damage bonus.
    Critical strikes can double the damage.

    With "cursed" -> -100 resist, fanatism (instead of might), extra strong and a critical strike, the damage can go up to ~3500.
     
  4. Frowzor

    Frowzor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Does not compute.


     
  5. Pyrohemia

    Pyrohemia Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Edit: Very wrong. ;)

    The screenshot is clearly 1.13 as the life total is displayed even though his cursor is over the monster. That feature is so natural that we already expect it without any consideration. That is the hallmark of good design.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  6. Drystan

    Drystan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Old as in, made long ago, not old as in old version. I have got quite a few Guardians lazing about in piles of weapons and gold after their victory. ;)

    The barb in question is Travincal, the aptly and creatively named Council runner in 1.13. As I decided to give 1.07 a try, I also loaded up my old (made before I quit D2 for a good few months,) characters made in 1.13 and give some LK/Trav running a go again to get back into D2.
    Saying that, my 1.07 sorc is in A3 Hell, having successfully racked a few Eth 'Zerkers.

    While D2 is a lot about just whack away, especially for well equipped chars such as Travincal, there are still the occasional spawns that can offer some huge trouble. I don't think any character could go toe-to-toe with Mr. Grey Maim the Jagged, as being:
    PI means you can't leach, he cannot be frozen or chilled, and 1000-1500 damage means he can take out most characters out in 2 hits (without BO) and a BO'd barb with 4k hps in 4 hits.
    Add to that, his speed while Frenzied made running away more challenging.

    And even on /pl1 if he spawned while questing, 600-1000 damage is an aweful lot for any character.

    I was just wondering what the worst spawn actually seen lately was (not hypothetically,) and how someone like Jiansonz or any other full-clearer would've tried to tackle this guy. To a full clear, single pass player, I think this spawn may've been impossible for any melee char, and most other chars.

    Also, thanks for running some numbers guys. Much appreciated! Also, Travincal's hitpoints in the picture were from 1 hit from the spawn, so his hitpoints dropped very significantly.
    ~Dryst
     
  7. onderduiker

    onderduiker Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    In the Throne of Destruction in Hell, level ** Unique Death Lords use their A1 attack 20% of the time and BloodLordFrenzy (A2) 80% of the time. The base damage of those attacks is as follows:

    Code:
    ATTACK      FREQUENCY   DAMAGE
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    A1                20%   Physical   Min [100* 80/100] =  80
                                       Max [100*120/100] = 120
                            Fire (33%) Min [100* 70/100] =  70
                                       Max [100* 80/100] =  80
    
    A2 Frenzy         80%   Physical   Min [100* 80/100] =  80
                            Fire       Max [100*120/100] = 120
    
    In Hell, Extra Strong applies +99% [150*66/100] Enhanced Damage to a Unique, level 14 [**/6] Might applies +170% ED and level 8 BloodLordFrenzy applies none, so +269% ED is applied in total, resulting in approximately 295.2-442.8 physical damage with both attacks. There's then 5% chance of a critical hit doubling both physical and fire damage.

    /players 8 increases base monster damage by 7/16 or 43.75%:

    Code:
    ATTACK      FREQUENCY   DAMAGE
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    A1                20%   Physical   Min [ 80*1.4375] = 115
                                       Max [120*1.4375] = 172
                            Fire (33%) Min [ 70*1.4375] = 100
                                       Max [ 80*1.4375] = 115
    
    A2 Frenzy         80%   Physical   Min [ 80*1.4375] = 115
                            Fire       Max [120*1.4375] = 172
    
    +269% ED results in approximately 424.35-634.68 physical damage with both attacks: once again a critical hit will double both physical and fire damage. Bear in mind that BloodLordFrenzy is a sequence of two quick attacks, it is used 80% of the time, and at level 8 its +80% Attack Rating gives it 11,410 [6,339*1.8] AR, so depending on your defence damage may often be applied twice in quick succession.

    Fanaticism doesn't apply the Paladin +% ED bonus to the Unique so level 11 [**/8] Fanaticism still only applies +110% ED, not +220% ED. Since level 8 BloodLordFrenzy applies +79 attack rate once fully charged (this takes 8 hits, and each hit resets its 15 second duration), level 11 Fanaticism's +31 attack rate may end up being redundant unless - attack rate is applied: since Death Lords have 0 chill effectiveness, that means only Decrepify (-50) and Slows Target by %.


     
  8. Drystan

    Drystan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Being Physical Immune, the only way to kill it with a Barb is with Berserk, reducing all defense to 0. :) Killer isn't it.

    Thanks for some more info. :)
     
  9. Frowzor

    Frowzor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Right. I guess that makes more sense. Well, if you're playing hardcore and like living dangerously, you could always head down near Nihlathak and try your luck with some Tomb Viper bosspacks :thumbup:


     
  10. Kevin William Cox

    Kevin William Cox Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    This guy wasn't as SCARY as what you had, but he was STRONG, took forever to kill. It wasn't that he could hurt me or my merc, we just couldn't hurt him very much. From the mana burn and IP, I could do nothing to him, so I thought Berserk, but the immune to magic kinda put a damper on that. Luckly, my merc had Reapers Toll. So I had to wait til decrypt went off and use concentrate. Even then it took a loooooong time.


    http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2296/hardtokill.jpg





    Kev


    P.S. /p8 btw
     
  11. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    I was just pass by and saw this. Can't believe this from such elite old player.

    He isn't the worst. I also believe you have already answered your own question. "Hit and Run" is the answer.

    assume we all agree that sorc and necro would have no problem at all. Also assume there are rooms around (cleared):

    Dr00d - depending on the build, but even melee build can cast a bear in front and hit him couple of times, run away, case bear, repeat.

    Barb - battle cry, hit once or so, running around, repeat

    Pally - depending on build, melee build uses the same tactics as dr00d, only without a castable minion, so use merc wisely.

    Assassin - MB to stop his charge, case SM to tank, hit, running around, repeat.

    Zon - ranged should be just as easy as sorc, melee does the same as dr00d.

    I remember I had a worse boss pack fight when I was questing one of my pally, took a long time to finish the boss, but without any major issue (only a couple of merc death).
     
  12. onderduiker

    onderduiker Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    No Mana Burn (Magic Resist +20%) Unique monster has enough MR % to become Immune to Magic and no Immune to Magic monster has more than Damage Resist 50%, so even if a Unique is Immune to Magic and becomes Immune to Physical by being Stone Skin (DR +50%) it will only have DR 100%: cursing it with Decrepify (DR -50%) will reduce it to DR 90% and result in 1/10 physical damage, while cursing it with Amplify Damage (DR -100%) will reduce it to DR 80% and result in 1/5 physical damage.

    Since all Immune to Magic monsters except Wailing Beasts are undead, equipping a Sanctuary Aura When Equipped item (either a Lawbringer sword, hammer or scepter if you use the Rune Word Mod, or an Azurewrath Phase Blade) would completely ignore their DR % if they became Immune to Physical as well.

    A Barbarian with at least one point in Berserk and a means to break or ignore physical immunity can kill anything in the game, although stopping monster damage regeneration with some poison damage (1 bit or 1/256 point of poison damage per frame is all that's needed after Poison Resist % has been applied), Open Wounds or Prevent Monster Heal would be advisable, particularly in /players 8 games: since damage regenerated is a fraction of monster life, it's also 350% higher.


     
  13. Kevin William Cox

    Kevin William Cox Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster



    You said it yourself, 1/10 the damage, hence why it took me so long. Plus the guy had it in for me, I ran around and let my merc attack him hopeing he would go after him. That was a no go, he ingored the merc every time and came straight for me, even after I tp'ed back to town for mana pots. That's why I pinned him in the doorway with my merc between us to get some leverage. And I didn't have Lawbringer or Azurewrath lying around at the time. He was a mace barb, and I was useing a rare maul, no open wounds or poison damage (rarly use that) or even crushing blow. Like I said, a tough fight, not as bad as what Drystan was fighting, but a tough fight with what I had.



    Kev



     
  14. onderduiker

    onderduiker Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Since Lawbringer can be made in hammers like mauls, if you make it in the same type as the maul then you would almost certainly apply more physical damage per hit in future encounters, despite its lack of +% Enhanced Damage, since it would be applying 100% physical damage compared to 10%: the other maul would have to have at least +900% weapon ED (impossible), or be ethereal and have at least +567% weapon ED (technically but not realistically possible). Obviously if it were faster due to weapon IAS or had non-physical damage greater than Lawbringer (150-210 Fire Damage and 130-180 Cold Damage) then it might still be able to apply more damage over time.

    Much more importantly, if you play in /players 8 games then I strongly recommend at least equipping one poison damage item (a single Small Charm will do) to stop the damage regeneration of monsters that aren't Immune to Poison: the only items that won't apply at least 1 bit poison damage per frame to Lister the Tormentor's Minions of Destruction (Poison Resist 95%, so 1/20 damage) are a weapon with the Blight suffix (2 Poison Damage Over 2 Seconds) or a Septic Grand Charm (5 Poison Damage Over 3 Seconds).

    That Unique Plague Bearer in the Lost City in Hell had 49,724-71,036 life in a /players 8 game, and it would have regenerated 606-867 life per second: if you averaged about 6,060-8,670 physical damage before Damage Resist % then 10% would not be enough to counter this; if you averaged 12,120-17,340 then at 10% damage the regeneration effectively reduces damage by 1/2; and even if you averaged 18,180-26,010 then at 10% damage it effectively reduces damage by 1/3.

    In /players 8 games, Minions of Destruction have 179,428-200,292 life, and regenerate approximately 2,190-2,444 life per second. :shocked:


     
  15. Drystan

    Drystan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Heh - I just realised something. Travincal was wielding an Oath, which happens to have Prevent Monster Heal... No wonder he didn't heal.

    @DM - I agree with you to a point, especially with the resummoning summons. Most of my Druid's have a bear or wolves. I do wonder how quickly he'd kill some of them though, as I put almost no value in wolves/bears whatsoever PvM - I have seen lesser monsters kill a bear in 2 hits, and wolves in 1. Valkyrie usually can tank the best of the summonables.
    But then, being PI (I don't use Reaper's since I don't have an Eth Reap's,) it makes it that much harder, and limits some 'easy' options. Also, consider it being HC. A couple hits and it could be deeds.

    Amazon - resummon valk/decoy, and plink away. Most zon builds have an elemental attack (FA/Charged strike - but if he targets the zon, she'll probably be dead in 1 hit.) She does have the sturdiest tank though, who 'could' happen to spawn with Amp damage.

    Assassin - MB/Shadow, trapsin. Martial artist may have some trouble if he targets her over the shadow.

    Necro - decrep, clay golem. Summoner may have a problem though - PhI unless decrep broke his immunity. I think if using Amp Damage, he may actually have enough time to slaughter some skeletons - again, I've seen lesser monsters take out skeles in Hell - and heal before you could resummon your army. Bone/Poison easy.

    Paly - does Smite knockback uniques? - I'm pretty sure I remember smiting Lister and whittling him down, very, very slowly.

    Druid - Being PhI means Fury is out - no damage, no leach, Summons are out, FC Bear is out, Windy just has to keep running and recast.

    The problem is that without BO, he could wipe out some characters in 1 hit, or all minus barb/druid in 2 hits if he rolls double damage. And yes, I am ignoring Open Wounds, as I only have that when I plan to rely on that (Riphook vs Ancients.)

    I want to test other characters against that guy now. *needs some way to 'create' monster spawns* It's too easy to say hypotheticals. He nearly took out a fully decked out barb, and his damage, even on /p1 is enough to kill single pass characters in 2-3 hits.

    Anyway, this thread was also intended to see other recent horror mods spawned - the one spawn that gave you quite a long/difficult/tense fight. *Not hypothetical, cos we all know Conv. MS Gloams, and Amp, Might, Extra Fast Frenzytaurs*
     
  16. baqarah

    baqarah Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Does Kelpie work vs PIs? With a little effort you can manually dodge a hit (run away when you see that hes attacking). Im not sure how slow effects stacks, but I think hf merc would help too.
     
  17. Drystan

    Drystan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Kelpie does work vs PI, but the ones I have aren't worth using as final weapons, so don't keep them on any character. They can be of great use if you've got an upp'd eth one though.
    Different sources of slowing target stack. There's Decrepify, slows target by x% (Kelpie,) chill effectiveness (cold damage and holy freeze,) do stack with each other. However, Frenzytaurs in the WSK have a chill effectiveness of 0, meaning they can't be chilled - cold damage and holy freeze. The kelpie and decrep would both work though.

    Personally, from a HC point of view, I don't like relying on a chance that I manually dodge an attack so deadly. I do against weaker attacks, but not against that.
     
  18. baqarah

    baqarah Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    I like to have Kelpie (non-eth, damage doesnt matter) in my stash when I do baal runs. Quick switch with Reaper's and it makes killing Baal easy on every /players setting. Im not sure if that works vs regular monsters but Baal's attacks dont work when hes chiller/slowed/decrep'd.

    Also Oath has Heart of Wolverine and Iron Golem charges. Not the best tanks (well, IG is good) and you cant repair an eth oath, but hey, its not like you can summon any better units.
     
  19. Juicy Cheese

    Juicy Cheese Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    My brother and I were doing some Baal runs together and I teleported into the Throne to discover a bosspack of Unravellers packing conviction and right next to it a bosspack of Gloams packing fanaticism. It was a long time ago and didn't give us all that much trouble since I was playing a lightning sorceress and he had a Templar packing level 25+ conviction. But for weaker characters it could have posed a huge threat, I dread to think how any hardcore untwinked character would be able to handle that situation. From a pure damage point of view, it was one of the worst combinations I've come up against, but with the right amount of fire power and on players 1, they were just a blip in the end.

    I remember coming up against an unbreakeable Extra Fast, Fanaticism, Stone Skin Ghost bosspack in the Forgotten Tower with my Strafer, I'm pretty certain it was unbreakable and when it stacked up against my Merc and Valk they just melted away, it took a long time for the minions to be dispatched since although they could be broken, the mercenary was using Delirium at the time. Although we could have killed them faster if Decrepify was on the all the time, I feared deequipping Delirium would cause us to become overrun.
     
  20. jiansonz

    jiansonz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Strongest Monster

    Ranged attacks is the key to safety here. Don´t let him hit you even once.


    Park him and clear out monsters until he´s alone and you have LOTS of space to move around.


    Go buy some Shocking javelins.

    Hit him with Prevent Monster Heal javelin, and start throwing the Shockers.

    I wouldn´t resurrect the merc, since this boss isn´t that fast when he isn´t Frenzied. Don´t give him a target to charge up on.

    Open Wounds speeds up the process. For the untwinked player, 5-10% ranged OW is available on crafted Blood belts.




    I did something like this to Hell Lister once. Needed to repair my 80-pack of Shocking Throwing Spears more than 20 times...


    Worst possible boss situation for me: getting thrown right into the middle of a super-strong double boss pack of Serpent Maguses in an Act III temple (with some über strong archer pack in the background).



     

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