Strongest Char Against Windies?

[GalenDoUrden]

That is the arguement they are giving over at Jsp in the strategy section. It is actually quite entertaining.

I have yet to see any proof though that this bug exists.

 

[mainaman]

I see this thread on but most ppl over there in both pvp sections are mainly ignorant.

But saying this someone mentioned to me that botd is supposed to be bugged some how, hitting alot more, but i do n ot believe this cuz i used to use botd before grief and i did not notice this.

the argument grew so big that even MCM went there to post..with comparison charts and exel graphs and video tests, it was really entertaining till we all saw the the guy claiming botd hits more often than grief, wouldnt show us any proof , then it turned into a flame war, still i think it is somehow educational and a hell of an entertainmet to read the thread

 

[Gotcha]

no offense but if you think you can beat any half-decent 6.5k+ life/maxblock/maxdr/99fhr+fcr windy with dual oaths you are clearly an utter ignorant.
fact is that damage matters. you will realize this whenever you duel a real druid instead of the 2k life 14% block pub garbage you seem fond of discussing.

btw, +vita isn't affected by bo so all your assumptions regarding stat points are pretty much worthless.

HeHe, Morotsojs, could you give me a gear breakdown on getting 6.5k life with max block/max DR/99%FHR & FCR. Just curious since After all my trials around 6300 is as close to the best I seem to have reached and that is with a 3/100 ammy and a circlet with 38 or so life, etc. with all the breakpoints, etc. and wearing bloods for the huge FHR help and hehe the 40 life.

God help the barb that faces a good windy with 6.5k life/max block and PDR and 99/99 breakpoints

 

[swiftrunner]

6.5k+ life/maxblock/maxdr/99fhr+fcr is achievable (or at least you get close to it) if your clvl is high enough (95+) and if you base this character on Fenris' wind druid and use all the best items possible, including skillers with +45 life, 10 5/20s, and fast cast rings with huge str and dex and life.

For most people, however, those numbers are way beyond reach.

 

[morotsjos]

HeHe, Morotsojs, could you give me a gear breakdown on getting 6.5k life with max block/max DR/99%FHR & FCR. Just curious since After all my trials around 6300 is as close to the best I seem to have reached and that is with a 3/100 ammy and a circlet with 38 or so life, etc. with all the breakpoints, etc. and wearing bloods for the huge FHR help and hehe the 40 life.

God help the barb that faces a good windy with 6.5k life/max block and PDR and 99/99 breakpoints

i've dueled plenty of such windies in eunl. most have somewhere between 6.5-7k life depending on whether they sacrifice some skillers for 20 life scs or not.

one very nice switch vs barb is +2dru/3nado/2sox shael shael helm, +2dru/19fcr/stats amu, bloodfist, shadow dancers, arach, storm ber, hoto, 2x fcr rings with stats+life. if you get good rings you'll easily surpass 6.5k life at higher levels, even with ghetto amu.

+2dru/20fcr/stats circlet is also viable if you can find a really good one. allows you to **** around with spirit/trangs/verdungos/whatever to find optimal setup. good luck.

 

[arbing]

6.5k+ life/maxblock/maxdr/99fhr+fcr is achievable (or at least you get close to it) if your clvl is high enough (95+) and if you base this character on Fenris' wind druid and use all the best items possible, including skillers with +45 life, 10 5/20s, and fast cast rings with huge str and dex and life.

For most people, however, those numbers are way beyond reach.

yep it's quite possible to reach that, i've test it out in single player and i am trying to get those gears to reach 6.7k life on uswest, but the hardest thing to get is the ammy and circlet, the rest are not that hard to find.

 

[inkanddagger]

Zeal vs Zeal dueling is all in the setup and the items, not the actual process of dueling

Melee dueling is NOT all point, click, walk up, and whoever has the best gear wins. The people who think this are the people who aren't experienced long term melee duelers. It's possible to duel like that, but not knowing melee techniques is the difference between a bvc that uses triangle whirls and one who namelock whirls.

In terms of fury duels alone - you have shifting, angling (based on the screen grid), "dorfing" - a shift + reposition technique that is very fast, allowing you to move from one grid position to another without interrupting your attacks (attributed to character name Dorf for figuring out how to standardize it's use), if resummon is allowed it's pretty interesting to stay in melee range and pick a time to resummon + attack and maintain block at the same time, reshifting - honestly, a very godly geared melee dueler without at least basic knowledge of some of these melee skills will lose to a very experienced but very crappily geared melee dueler most of the time.


That said, to answer the question posed by this thread: Ber shaft wearing ebotdgpa fury wolf is the worst enemy of the wind druid.

 

[the boss]

That said, to answer the question posed by this thread: Ber shaft wearing ebotdgpa fury wolf is the worst enemy of the wind druid.

Won't wind druids have summons out to block out your fury?

 

[morotsjos]

yep it's quite possible to reach that, i've test it out in single player and i am trying to get those gears to reach 6.7k life on uswest, but the hardest thing to get is the ammy and circlet, the rest are not that hard to find.

and the morons @ cc-comp claimed that 5.5k was max for blockdruids, and that no druid in west had 6k life and maxblock...

 

[inkanddagger]

Won't wind druids have summons out to block out your fury?

you mean summons for my fury to leech on while causing him damage from multiple poison novas?


losing to a wind druid is pretty rare.

 

[inkanddagger]

Won't wind druids have summons out to block out your fury?

you mean summons for my fury to leech on while causing him damage from multiple poison novas?


losing to a wind druid is pretty rare.

 

[Ce Olba]

Where did our "Grief pwns all" guy go?

I got temp banned until 4.7.2006, and I was on a trip 30.6-6.7.2006.

I am all up for a good discussion, but calling people names is clearly out of line.

Your "good discussion" is saying that BotD>Grief because Botd does better damage in 2100/6100 tries, which equals to 34.42623%?

I had over 120 high runes in my charms for my cold sorceress alone, not including the perfect etheral Fathom, I could have made 50+ more griefs with the extra runes I had just sitting around.

This information is irrelevant to the discussion.

I used botd because It worked well in my setup, I am not trying to say that grief is a bad weapon, just that many people that use it use it because:

If it works with your setup, that makes it optimal? Hell no.

1) smite damage is high

But yet it also helps other attacks, such as WW a lot. It just powers up smiters. I doubt it was intended to be like this for PvP, but rather to give smiters a slight chance in PvM.

2) its cheap

It's cheap to make yes, but on non-ladder it's not cheap to buy, costs more than a EBotd, yet, as even a 34/340 grief is better than 415% ebotdz, people want griefs.

Either way, it only makes for a bad character in the end. I have seen people use things like Death Warspikes and other odd rares, Zeal vs Zeal dueling is all in the setup and the items, not the actual process of dueling

Zeal v Zeal has zero percents the same to Windy v others, thus it's out of the discussion.

Why Grief makes a bad character? It's not the character that sucks, it's the player. A good player can be good with or without Grief, a bad player cannot be good without Grief. That's the difference. Look at mcm's videos from pre-1.11, he uses ebotdz and beats up people.

Also, the low damage rolls are a threat. If you do a low damage roll 66% of the time, is it worth it? No, it's not. As long as the high damage rolls stay over 50%, something is superior. But in Botd v Grief, it's only 34% of the time. so 2/3rds of the time you will end up doing lower damage than a Grief does. Is that fun? No

And this kind of talk also got Ce Olba banned.

No it didn't, necessarily. I got a bit heated about a guy posting about how he got scammed, and I said he was "whining", so Gorny banned me from three (?) days.

 

[fhpchris]

Why Grief makes a bad character? It's not the character that sucks, it's the player. A good player can be good with or without Grief, a bad player cannot be good without Grief. That's the difference. Look at mcm's videos from pre-1.11, he uses ebotdz and beats up people.

I can agree with that. I saw a dimentional Blade grief this weekend and thought of this discussion again

You could guess that that person was not in the "good players" category.

 

[Ce Olba]

I can agree with that. I saw a dimentional Blade grief this weekend and thought of this discussion again

You could guess that that person was not in the "good players" category.

Most pub people ignore the IAS question totally and just use whatever grief they can get cheaply (bad weapons go cheaper).

 

[TheBassman]

I've read this entire thread, due to the fact that I can't seem to join any games. Anyways, I wanted to throw in my 2 shiny pennies. For the main topic, easily BvC over Windies or Trappers over Windies, in fact I find Windies to be a pathetic PvP character all around but that's besides the point.

My next shiny penny goes to all the guys bickering over this retarded Grief > EBotD crap. You guys are turning this thread into a "My dad is better then your dad" type of thread. Frankly I enjoy walking around with my EBotDZ + BeastZ BvC. I agree entirely, that Grief is far superior in terms of damage, but I must also say that D2 is also a game of skill, the gear an individual chooses can be based on many factors: Wealth, Preference, Style... the list goes on. Hell, I'd use a GriefZ if I had one, yet I can't afford it, I didn't scrap my BvC because of it.

That's my thought on this subject.

~LesC

 

[Ce Olba]

I've read this entire thread, due to the fact that I can't seem to join any games. Anyways, I wanted to throw in my 2 shiny pennies. For the main topic, easily BvC over Windies or Trappers over Windies, in fact I find Windies to be a pathetic PvP character all around but that's besides the point.

I like a skilled Windy as my BvCs team member, it's good, since the windy gives me about 10k-ish life, and while I triwhirl, the windy can spam nados from a distance. As for trappers, I can triwhirl lock them while the windy comes for nados.

My next shiny penny goes to all the guys bickering over this retarded Grief > EBotD crap. You guys are turning this thread into a "My dad is better then your dad" type of thread. Frankly I enjoy walking around with my EBotDZ + BeastZ BvC. I agree entirely, that Grief is far superior in terms of damage, but I must also say that D2 is also a game of skill, the gear an individual chooses can be based on many factors: Wealth, Preference, Style... the list goes on. Hell, I'd use a GriefZ if I had one, yet I can't afford it, I didn't scrap my BvC because of it.

I used to use EBotdZ on my BvC, and so did morotsjos, mcm, blobs and luis before Grief was out. Just look at the older videos of mcm, he beats most people with his EBotdZ. However, I wouldn't say that you can even take "style" into the account in PvP, unless the weapons are equal otherwise. I do not even understand, what's so cool about a half-invisible axe over a visible one?

That's my thought on this subject.

~LesC

Some good, but old thoughts there.

 

[SicHalo]

yeah i used to use a botd as well when i could not afford grief yet, it got the job done but like i said, i knew the grief was superior to botd this is why i pushed to get a grief.

 

[TheBassman]

However, I wouldn't say that you can even take "style" into the account in PvP, unless the weapons are equal otherwise. I do not even understand, what's so cool about a half-invisible axe over a visible one?

I actually meant style in general [Not just the appearence of an Ethereal BA], much like an Eth Rare Phase Blade over a Grief Phase Blade for a Zealot or .08 Windforce over a Faith GMB. Style/Preference. Don't know if I got my point across well enough... :grin:

~LesC

 

[Ce Olba]

I actually meant style in general [Not just the appearence of an Ethereal BA], much like an Eth Rare Phase Blade over a Grief Phase Blade for a Zealot or .08 Windforce over a Faith GMB. Style/Preference. Don't know if I got my point across well enough... :grin:

~LesC

Well, of course they will rather use a godly rare phase blade. But rarely, if it's not as good as something else. As for the .08 WF, I do not know, never seen one.

As for style outside of weapons, I would love to have a Scarab Husk enigma on my BvC, because it looks the best on barbs I think. But I have 2 archon Enigmas that I wouldn't like to ditch/trade.