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"Striking Tiger, Lashing Dragon" TS/Dtail Assassin Guide (final)

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by terflit, Jan 30, 2004.

  1. terflit

    terflit IncGamers Member

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    Good guide! :clap:
    Someone should sticky this, this build is similar to mine and is soo much more fun than my old hybrid (but mostly trap) assasian. Who wants to wait around and spend forever clearing out levels when you can tank with almost as much speed and ease as a barb.
     
  2. lone_wolf

    lone_wolf Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    good guide makes it much easier to plan a good dtail assy
     
  3. Ghola

    Ghola IncGamers Member

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    Excellent guide wildjinn! As a relative newbie this is exactly the sort of guide I'm looking for... a broad overview of various possibilities. I especially like the fact that you don't go in-depth about the calculations involved (no doubt good for some, but they make my head hurt). I also appreciate that your suggestions aren't too dependent on gear - many guides I've consulted here required equipment that I may never actually get.

    Two thumbs up! You've talked me into what I thought would be a rather difficult class. I'm starting one tonight.
     
  4. Baboon

    Baboon IncGamers Member

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    Really brilliant guide :)

    I especially love the part where the different build directions are compared with their skill point cost. I think any guide writer should be forced to implement that part ;)
     
  5. egervari

    egervari IncGamers Member

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    I think dwarf is a bad choice. It offers nothing useful really. You are much better off with a rare ring giving attack rating, dual leech, strength or dex dex and resists. I realize a ring like this is very rare, but even dual leech and attack rating (only 3 mods) is not impossible to find and shouldn't be more than a low to mid rune to trade for.
     
  6. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    Extra AR and Dual-leech is unecessary, IMO, due to the use of Cobra Strike and the absolutely massive AR bonuses conferred by TS, CS, and the DTail AR bonus, but you certainly have a good point in suggesting them. The high level requirements of good dual-leech rings are discouraging, as is their ineffectiveness in hell difficulty withough additional leech gear in comparision to the ease of use of CS.

    About the Dwarf Star, though: I really like the effective 30% fire res, Life, and GF for gambling. The MDR in a Dwarf Star is also very useful. While it may have been nerfed awhile ago in terms of constant-damage spells (e.g. Inferno), their recent nerfing has made MDR more useful. Also, good MDR can allow for virtual immunity to elemental attacks with only 75% res all and absorb of each element, which I have found easier to obtain than dual-leech rings. (Dwarf Star, TGod's or Wisp Projector, Ravenfrost)

    Addition to the guide:
    I have found, after a suggestion from jrichard and some experience, that Andariel's Visage and IK Gloves and IK Belt are extremely excellent items for use by this assassin build. The Andariel's Visage provides so many bonuses that it's balanced by -30% fire resistance, which is pretty impressive. The IK gloves and Belt together provide IAS, massive stat point increases, significant defense addition and some good resistances. I would upgrade them to "Best" items.

    edit: added additional note and clarified.
     
  7. royalesse

    royalesse IncGamers Member

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    Amp Damage & Deadly Strike

    Hi, First off... excellent guide wildjinn!!!

    I was wondering if you were able to experiment with Amp damage and Deadly Strike. In theory these should be multiplicative to your already obscene physical damage which should in turn raise your fire damage to astronomical heights.

    I know it will hurt bonus skill points but this I was thinking about doing with my TS+Dtailer: Using Lacerator as the charge up weapon

    Basically, I wanted to swing lacerator 3 times to charge that should activate the Amp damage and then Dtail. My theory is if Phys immunes are immuned to Dtail since no-physical damage is done then shouldn't it work the otherway if double the physical damage is done?

    Of course it may not work that way and the Physical resistance works but only if it's positive (kinda like the crushing blow exception)... Has anyone tested?

    Thanks

    P.S. You can get the lacerator down to a 6 frame TS attack with 95% IAS and a high lvl Burst of Speed, also as a bonus the amp damage will take care of most of the phys immunes except for the stone skin, phys immunes.

    Edit: removed the Deadly Strike question since I found my answer in jrichards: kicking basics guide
     
  8. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    That could certainly work, as would an Atma's Scarab. Using Amp Damage to break physical immunes still leaves them with a very large physical resistance, though, and your elemental source of damage would likely kill PI's faster than a few DTails in that case. The bonus damage is a great idea, though, and would be a good reason to invest in some Amp Damage.

    If you want to make a build that can do that, though, go for it--the point is to have fun doing what you're enjoying. Lacerator-wielding Assassins are not super common--you'd have a unique build, which would be very cool. The problem you'd run into with that item specifically is the % ctc cause monster to flee on it. That might drive you nuts, especially if you're trying to group monsters for a good DTail. I would suggest using the Atma's Scarab before the Lacerator for that reason. You could also obtain a ring or amulet with Amp Damage charges on it, which might be the best option.

    The other thing to consider is that you may be giving up much potential damage with large +skills on claws. For example, with dual Bartuc's, you'll have +6 to the MA tab, which is a significant boost in damage (adding 60% multiplicative Fire splash damage and +360% additive physical damage from your kick (levels 20->26)). You'll also have +4 to traps or +6 to Phoenix Strike/an elemental chargeup. It's up to you to decide your take on the tradeoff. While I am more of a power-builder, a themed variant of this build could be very fun.

    And thanks for your compliment on the guide. I appreciate it. :)
     
  9. royalesse

    royalesse IncGamers Member

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    Thnx I appreciate the reply. Hit Causes Monster To Flee (HCMTF) is a good point... and still... I need to hit 20 times for Atma's Amp Damage to go off... While with Lacerator I need to hit 3 times, which is excactly what I need for 3 charges of TS.

    I'll leave some skill points unallocated just in case I decide late game that (HCMTF) is too bothersome and I want to switch to Claw/Claw and max Weapon block. Damage wise... I'm itchin to see if I can turn a 50 or 60k kick into 100 or 120k.

    Also I've been dying to find an unusual way to use lacerator.

    Lastly, Arreat Summit changed item possiblities for Chance to cast Amp Damage. It's now weapons only so per weapon that still leaves me with 10 swings and that's assuming that I can find it on 2 good claws.
     
  10. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    I've heard from some folks that it's not so bad in hell, since monsters barely run very far. Let me know how that goes. Also, don't bother getting much higher than level 10 w/skills in weapon block. Extremely diminishing returns happen at higher levels, although every points is useful because of the amazing powers of claw block.
    My bad. I should have known that one. :eek: I thought it was castable. Perhaps you could find a Reaper's Toll to put on your merc and get a similar effect w/the Decrep if this doesn't work out. It sounds as if it should, though.
     
  11. jrichard

    jrichard IncGamers Member

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    couple of things royalesse,

    Lacerator will only be able to hit an 8 frame TS attack, doesn't matter how much IAS you add after it hits that speed. That's the fastest it will go.

    The mod will only count coming from one claw, so it still would be 20 swings.

    Just so you know to make it up somewhere, the other problem with lacerator being used for the TS chargeup would be AR. It has no ITD or inherent AR bonus.

    jrichard
     
  12. Radagast

    Radagast IncGamers Member

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    Just made one of these bad girls, and had to toss my 2 cents in:

    Firstly, amazing guide wildjinn! I've tried out quite a few characters in the last 4 years or so, and this is the most fun i've had in a LONG time.

    When I got my sin to lvl 50 last night and equiped all my gear (it was all pending on the dex from Cats) I was most suprised to find my regular goreriders had me doing 16k fully charged kick dmg ... at lvl 50. WOW! I play hardcore and so far the build has survived, nearly lvl 60 now and i can solo the entirety of nightmare with only a few close calls here and there. She keeps me on my toes :D

    Anyway, once again, thx so much for drawing me into this variant with an educated, well written guide!

    ~Radagast

    Btw - If you ever revise the guide, i'd like to suggest Rockstopper as a good to great helm. I have one that has about 40 fire/cold/lit resis, and with the set 10% dr and 15 to vit, i find this to be one of the most undervalued helms around.
     
  13. royalesse

    royalesse IncGamers Member

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    Hey jrichard here's the IAS table for a winged axe from that german weapon speed calculator:

    -------------------- Settings --------------------
    Character: Assassin
    Right weapon: Winged Axe / Schwingenaxt
    Skill: Tiger Strike
    Burst of Speed: Level 20
    IAS --- Frames per attack --- Attacks per second
    0 % ----------- 9 ------------------- 2.7
    6 % ----------- 8 ------------------- 3.1
    34 % ---------- 7 ------------------- 3.5
    95 % ---------- 6 ------------------- 4.1
    330 % --------- 5 ------------------- 5

    So assuming it's right it's a 6 FPA with a lvl 20 Burst of Speed and +95% IAS.

    Amp Damage: I wasn't counting both claws together... I was thinking Atmas + each claw individually... Sorry for not being clear.

    Good point on the AR... Maybe I'll go blessed Aim merc or go max block on the Sin.
     
  14. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    The German speed calculator has 1.09 values in it and is no longer correct for BoS calculations, IIRC. It gives you a much higher bonus than it should. Naliworld told me that when I first posted this guide, so maybe he'll be able to shed some more light on that.

    Good call on the max block idea. I think the BA merc might have some issues staying alive, but with good gear, he should be cool.

    @Radagast: Thanks. I'm happy that you enjoyed it. Playing her hardcore is very impressive and something I would probably never have the guts to do! Watch out for IM. :p I'd have to agree with you that rockstopper is a good helm if you're going for the defensive route--I omitted it the first time because of its lack of +skills, but, since the Vamp Gaze is mentioned, it probably deserves a mention as well. I'll add it if/when this gets upgraded, since there are some other gear issues (referenced above) that need to be changed. I'll probably wait until it's in the Strat Compendium and then edit the HTML files directly, since I think/hope they're working on those now (it's been a month since it was submitted.)
     
  15. jrichard

    jrichard IncGamers Member

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    They apparently don't have the speed caps set for non-claw weapons for assassins. You'll notice runic talons are capped at 7 frames and claws have a one frame faster base speed for assassins. The cap for a winged axe with TS is 8 frames, trust me.

    jrichard
     
  16. royalesse

    royalesse IncGamers Member

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    Doh... good to know

    Thanks jrichard & wildjinn
     
  17. celtz888

    celtz888 IncGamers Member

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    Around what damage would I be looking at with like a lvl 30ish Dragon Tail and lvl 30 Tiger strike? Im jw :-D

    Also what boots would u reccomend for the nonladder people like myself who cant upgrade Goreriders to elite :( Should we go for the rare mirmidon greaves?
     
  18. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    If my calculator is right (which I think it is) lvl 31 DTail/ lvl 31 TS/ 450 STR/150 DEX (what I'm expecting to be minimum on my next sin) wearing Myrmidon Greaves should come out to 24664-37646 damage on the LCS.

    Does that look right, jrichard (if you check this)?

    Myrmidon Greaves are very nice to be using. Their damage in comparison to the next worse boots is pretty incredible. Go with the rares.
     
  19. celtz888

    celtz888 IncGamers Member

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    thats alot of str, what would my dmg look like if i went for a 200 str and alot of vitality build?
     
  20. celtz888

    celtz888 IncGamers Member

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    wildjinn maybe could you show me ur kicker sometime? Ive never seen one in action and maybe i could get a chance to look :-D what realm do you play on?
     

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