Strange Build Idea

[Tacothedeep]

Strange Build Idea

I would like to preface this with the disclaimer that I know this idea is strange, might not work, and if it did, most likely wouldn't be the fastest killing sorc possible.

How about a sorc wielding harmony using the revive charges as the main tanks for the build, with a thorns merc to make use of the tanks?
I imagine it would play somewhat similar to a meteorb, or any standard skill set really, but the ability to teleport (teleport takes your revives with you, right?), and deal out huge AOE damage on enemies focused on the revives could make the build far safer and capable of dealing a third type of damage (physical from the revives and the reflected damage).

Some general ideas/ rambling questions:
1. Merc would want an insight to power the many revives (the charges still cost mana don't they?). thorns or might?
2. The real question... how much does repairing that bow cost? Do charge costs scale with level, ie lvl 20 = more gold than lvl 8?
3. Is level 20 revive powerful enough to survive many hits in hell? With 25 charges, you would probably want about 5-6 running at any one time, with a duration of 180 seconds you would have about 12 minutes of revives before needing to buy more charges, assuming they don't die of natural causes. Unlike on a necro, they won't have to tank for very long, since their main purpose will be keeping the enemy still for a few seconds to maximize the damage of an AOE spell. Assuming a completely still enemy, it looks like firewall deals the most damage...
4. Corpse mourn for corpse explosion charges??? Thats sort of a joke because they would probably be way too expensive, and I have a feeling thats already the problem with this build, but why not throw it out there.

Anyways, what are the problems here I am not seeing?

 

[TopHatCat64]

Re: Strange Build Idea

2 mat/pat threads that should provide some insight.

1. Pancakeman's Harmony Enchantress - A sorc that utilizes enchanted revives and Harmony.

2. My Arabian Knight - A pally that utilizes smite to apply amp dmg and the ce charges from Corpsemourn

 

[Tacothedeep]

Re: Strange Build Idea

to clarify, I wouldnt fire the bow. Interesting read though.

 

[sirpoopsalot]

Re: Strange Build Idea

I'll take a stab at your questions, though I'm not entirely confident of my responses:

1. I don't think charges cost mana (about 99% sure). So I'd look at a merc weapon that fits your needs a little better. Reaper's Toll for that always-useful Decrepify curse would probably be my first choice, or maybe an Obedience if you don't have Crushing Blow on his other equipment (act bosses will be slow if you rely on minions+merc without decent amounts of CrushingBlow... though a Reapers Toll pairs really well with Guillaume's Face & Duress). You can try thorns, and probably make it work, but I'm very doubtful it'll compare to a Might merc.

2. I don't know, but it's expensive enough that you might want to consider the Ort+chipped gem cube recipe for repairs. It's not like those ingredients are hard to find.

3. If you pick the right monsters to revive, they'll be fine - and if not, they'll suck. Look for highly mobile monsters first, preferably ones that are hard hitters (Urdar's in Act4 are a good one). There's probably some info somewhere around the necromancer forum on this if you feel like searching around.

4. I dunno. I guess... why not give it a try? There's also a cube recipe for repairing that, Ral+flawed gem, I believe. I think FireMastery might (?) increase the fire portion of the CE damage, so you could really hurt monsters.


Sidenote: One thing to always keep in mind - if you use your weapon switch, the revives will die automatically because you no longer have Harmony equipped, which is obviously annoying and possibly dangerous. So, I'm pretty sure that you'll need to fire your bow or cast your spells with it equipped. Also, it's been a while since I experimented with this, but with the Vigor aura on Harmony, it may be possible to out-run your revives and have them simply "poof" permanently when they get too far away, instead of teleporting back to your location like many other minions do.


FYI, I haven't tried this with a sorc, but I did try a bow-barbromancer. Basically it was this exact build using Harmony for Revives, Coupsemourn for CE, and other items that provided necromancer skills (Marrowwalks boots for LifeTap and BonePrison charges, 'Delerium' runeword for some more curses, etc.).

He is definitely capable of killing things in games with a lower number of players, but as monster life increases with more players, he slows down a lot. I got bored with him and he's currently parked in late Nightmare needing a few levels before venturing into Hell. But his progress rolls along quite well when I'm not too cheap to spend a few charges of Revive and CE. And Delerium is all the crowd control you'd ever need. I'm confident that his progress will continue to be decent through most of Hell, but I suspect he'll slow down quite a bit during the last 2 acts - and I suspect the same about your sorc.

 

[MizzouVic]

Re: Strange Build Idea

Dont want to say your build would not work, but here's my 2 cents:

a) you are correct, this build is going to be VERY expensive (gold-wise)
b) the revives simply do not last very long, not only because they are not that high level, but please do remember that you do not have skel mastery and summon res.
c) as the previous post had mentioned, when u switched weapon, your summons "poof"... so.. by the time you switch to your casting weapon, ur shields are gone.
d) in order to use both harmony and corpsemourn, we are looking at alot of valuable points going into str and dex instead of vit.

basically, I think it MAY work, but it's going to cost you ALOT.

 

[Tacothedeep]

Re: Strange Build Idea

Dont want to say your build would not work, but here's my 2 cents:

a) you are correct, this build is going to be VERY expensive (gold-wise)
b) the revives simply do not last very long, not only because they are not that high level, but please do remember that you do not have skel mastery and summon res.
c) as the previous post had mentioned, when u switched weapon, your summons "poof"... so.. by the time you switch to your casting weapon, ur shields are gone.
d) in order to use both harmony and corpsemourn, we are looking at alot of valuable points going into str and dex instead of vit.

basically, I think it MAY work, but it's going to cost you ALOT.

Did a little more research, and since you put basically the same answers more concisely, ill respond to yours
a) 10k a charge for repairs, which isnt terrible
b) they are level 20 revives, thats a pretty high level. they last 180 seconds, which, as mentioned, would mean that maintaining 5-6 at a time would give 12 minutes of playtime before repairs, repairs only costing 200k total.
c) I dont plan on switching weapons, Ill have the harmony as my weapon. Yes Ill lose a shield and a wand, but ill gain a lot of safety from the revives which the blocking couldnt have made up for.
d) corpsemourn wouldnt be in the picture I dont think. That was just a silly idea. here is the build i am thinking at this point:
max firewall, fire mastery (best dps for stationary targets, even without synergies (over 3k per sec at level 20)
max orb, few in cold mastery (for fire immunes)
Whatever with the rest
Harmony Bow
spirit and wiz spike on switch for teleporting and getting the initial bodies to revive
Rest of the gear isnt very important, resists and skills, etc
act 2 might merc w/ reapers toll
Would play a lot like a regular sorc, except with the safety of revives after the initial kill. Anybody have a regular sorc with harmony in a normal bow they wanna give this a whirl on?? :thumbsup:

 

[sirpoopsalot]

Re: Strange Build Idea

If you're going with a Firewall/Frozen Orb caster with 'revive support', like what you have planned, it'll definitely work. Maybe you won't be the absolute fastest, but you'll be able to go anywhere and kill anything effectively and safely.

From my own experiences with minion-based builds, my guess about your end result is:

Once you get used to playing this build and keeping a handle on your minions (with teleport), you'll really excel in many situations. But other times you'll be thinking it's a pain in the backside to keep a handle on your minions, when you could just spank the monsters on your own with the help of a good merc. Throw in the high repair costs for using the charges, as well as the lack of a "good" weapon/shield combo, and for me, I'd rather go without the minions altogether. And I've tried Firewall enough times that I've learned it's relatively easy to aim accurately.

But if you do try this, I'd be glad to hear your summary of the results. As TopHatCat64 illustrated, off-the-wall builds are sometimes explored in the SPF (and elsewhere). They're always an interesting read when compared to "I need help with my litesorc", and I salute any player that's willing to undertake an out-of-the-box idea.

If/when you try this, I wish you the best of luck and the most fun you've had in a long time. :thumbup:


PS. my opinion is based upon my very recent experiences with a summons-based druid using a 'Faith' bow and teleport, my old bow-barbromancer, and the ~20 different sorcs I've tried. None of them was anything like this build, but they did teach me enough about summons-based builds to make me leery of trying another one... it's too much like babysitting for my taste, especially when you can kick monster *** just as quickly on your own.

 

[Tacothedeep]

Re: Strange Build Idea

Thanks for all the input!
Once I get some free time I will give it a whirl and let you know how it goes.

 

[lumpor]

Re: Strange Build Idea

This idea is actually already taken, though a bit different from the other one, but they're still similar.

In hell, characters deal high damage and can recieve little damage, while monsters deal low damage and can recieve alot of damage. Since they match each other, you don't notice anything when playing normally. This is also why iron maiden sucks against monsters and is feared among players. However, when you revive a monster, you will have monsters fighting each other, and their damage will be low compared to their health. Therefore, your revives will hardly be able to kill a mouse, but will almost never die.

But thorns is a good idea, even though the reflected damage is based on the monsters damage. As long as you got a good reflection% and meat shields, thorn is still quite effective. I would also suggest an act 1 merc with bramble and edge. If those 2 runewords are on the same character/minion, the auras will stack.

Instead of courpsemourn, you could also use stone, for a clay golem. Or you could also wield a bramble yourself. Even though the thorns aura will be made obsolete by your merc's aura, you can use the spirit of barbs charges. But it's probably better just to get a wisp projector and get the charges from there.

If you equipped your merc with a delirium, you would also cast curses, and be even closer to a necromancer (the other guy who suggested this idea called it a necro-sorc). Although the mind curses can be a bit annoying, since the enemies stop attacking the revives and therefore recieve no thorns damage. You could also wear marrowwalks and use the lifetap charges. Although, since the revives have alot of defense and low offense, it won't do much either. Amplify damage would be your best bet, since thorns will be amplified too, but the only thing with amp charges if the gavel of pain, and not only does it only have 3 charges, but you also need to switch weapons, and then the revives will die.

Still, it certainly is a fun idea, as long as you have a goldfind barb to handle the repair costs. They earn about 400k-500k gold in 2 minutes, so it won't be too much of a problem