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Strafe+Pierce CtC question

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by Norre, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Mornin y'all.

    Do strafe and Pierce work? Like if you have 100% Pierce and a lvl 12 strafe would all 10 arrows pierce all the time?

    Also when you do pierce an enemy, and you have a CtC on striking, does it roll for every enemy it pierces, effectivly creating a wall of CtC effects when strafing vs multiple enemys? Like lets say, would a brand bow shoot out like hundreds of spears during cowruns?

    If it does a CtC strafer could potentialy be devastating, i mean imagine a
    Brand, Dragon(or treachery if u want the free IAS), Hell mouth, dual wisp projector. I mean, every strafe would bring 5+ effects (not counting bone spear from Brand).

    Would reroll my amazon if this works, so would be extremely thankful if someone could tell me if it works or not!:help:
     
  2. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Yes, thats why almost every PvE bowzon build uses Razortail, which lets you achieve 100% pierce with only 9 soft points in Pierce.

    CtC on Strafe works with every hit from every arrow. CtC on MS only works on the middle 2 arrows. Brand does unleash a volley of bone spears, but they always start from the monster that got hit, so they only hit the monsters directly behind the one that it triggers from...

    CtC strafers are effective, but not like you're thinking - those CtC effects are all horribly weak, since they're all unsynergized, even all grouped together. They're just harmless fireworks. The good proc-strafers focus more on useful mods like KB, CB, OW, DS, and CtC curses on striking, primarily the CtC Amp on Atma's and Witchwild String.
     
  3. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Blah, was hoping i stumbled across something;P still gonna try though, no point in playing seriously when d3 is at the horizon. completely new question then, what character+build is possibly the best CtC:er, or in other words, what build can squeeze out the most CtC in the shortest amount of time?
    im guessing a strafer would do well, but since Brand seems like the best choice, and since they cant wield a shield im starting to lean towards a zealer or a frenzy barb or similar.
    please dont mind the :eek:fftopic: . it happends;P
     
  4. MFDeath

    MFDeath IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Well I'd say strafer would still be the best for ctc, as it can reach 2frame (read 3 with the bug), while zeal/fanat maxes out at 4... Don't remember frenzy off the top of my head but I'm sure it can't match strafe. Only difference is as you said lack of shield... Regardless, like droid said the only ctc worth mentionning on a zon is amp anyway, the rest is really just novelty.
     
  5. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    strafe hits 3 (though its NextDelay is 4 against single targets), everything else maxes out at 4 frames or more IIRC.
     
  6. taxcut

    taxcut IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    There are a quite a few viable CTC builds, most center around casting Amp Damage, Static, or Decrepify... A Lacerator axe, Crescent Moon, or Lawbringer sword with Freny Barbs, Fury Druids, and zSmiters come to mind... Conviction Pally builds using aura runewords work well, lottsa hydras....

    For straffer CTC nothing can beat a Witchyzon:
    http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240912

    Witchys are a powerful, but low cost, build based around a Witchwild string bow... It casts Amp damage and Deadly strike like crazy... Elemental variations with Pus Spitter crossbow and Dragon armor are fun to play around with (Pusyzon? eeew)... Pus Spitters cast Lower resist on striking... Wrath bow casts decrep/ lifetap and is a nice CTC bow for a Straffer, that would be a Wrathyzon I guess...

    "Brand" chance to cast Amp Damage is when struck, not on striking, and the bonespears are more for show...

    Razortail for pierce was covered in previous posts... Use one if possible...
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2010
  7. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    I already got myself a Razortail so it will be used, even thus its etheral (damn).
    Well, as i mentioned im not really thinking about optimizing any of my current builds now that i can finaly see the light in the tunnel (d3). so all i am doing as of now are just for fun, and show which is why 100% bone spear would fit :p.
    Basicly what i want is as many visible effects to pop in as short a timeframe as possible. So mass curses wouldnt add alot.
    Or in other, more realistic words, i would like a build that will make me unable to play with others due to the lagg i will be causing:p.
    Thats why i though a strafer wouldnt top the list, due to the lack of shields (extra CtC) and a multi CtC weapon (Destruction ftw?).
    I might however be wrong on this and would be thankful for any clearup!
     
  8. taxcut

    taxcut IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    I gotcha, you're looking for more fireworks...

    Principle runeword has 100% CTC holybolt, thats extremism... You might also try a Carrion ring for some CTC little whirly windy things... BOTD's poison nova, while not CTC on striking, goes off quite a bit...
     
  9. MFDeath

    MFDeath IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Off-topic but man, D3 is still sooo far out you've got well over a year of D2 left, minimum...
     
  10. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    i remember reading a guide that's pretty much what you want, but after searching for a while i cannot find it. it's here in the zon forum i think. sorry i couldnt be more helpful.

    ps. the frost nova from ice is an excellent ctc as it goes off from the point of impact. you can frost nova an entire screen of monsters.
     
  11. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    ...

    You just ruined my day! :ashamed:

    @ Taxcut
    In short. Yes.
    But i also want to kill fallens in hell :p, so i will probably not take Principle as my top choice of armor, but the more harmful fireworks as possible, but this is not the issue as of now.

    @ Crawlingdeadman

    Aww, you have any idea of something remotly close to what it could have been name?


    Also, are you all sure a Strafer would produce the most lethal fireworks? i though a zealer would perhaps kick blondies butt, due to him being able to use a 1-h+shield (more CtC's) or maybe some werewolf build with destruction o_O

    but then again, maybe i should ask that in the amazon forums XD not offtopic at all *coughs*


     
  12. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    I think you're misunderstanding....we're using the term "fireworks" pejoratively, to mean effects that are purely for show - visible, but totally ineffective at actually hurting anything (unless you count trying to cause games to crash...)

    The only CtC effects that arent just fireworks - ie, that actually are useful in combat - are the ones mentioned above; things like Amp/Decrep, Static, and the FO on Striking from VoR or Rift. Probably a Riftadin is the most effective CtC-based char, if you're not counting CtC debuffs or CB/DS.
     
  13. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    there's an excellent guide on using earthshifter on a druid. they have effective ctc effects.

    @norre; i already checked the obvious ones and scoured my brain.
     
  14. YogiRat

    YogiRat IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    I'm a bit disappointed no one has mentioned the Medusa build. The ctc blind with the 'Silence' bow works superbly with strafe. It's not that flashy though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
  15. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    @droid
    Lets see if we can sort this out,
    What i am looking for is a character that uses CtC effects to kill enemys (like a Riftadin, but more extreme) like for example a Fury Druid with
    Destruction, Dragon, Hellmouth. etc etc. not just using curses or similar (though, they are absolutly not a big no-no:p just dont want to focus on them) to kill enemies, and im wondering what you all would think is the best class for that, sofar i can think of a zealer who benefits from the extra CtC on a shield, A frenzy barb that benefits from dual wep, or a fury druid that could benefit from Destruction. Or obviously a strafer xD
    I might of course have missed something, and thats why i am asking you guys for advice^^

    @ Crawlingdeadman
    Do'h! gonna look for earthsifting druid then.
    PS: how come i always spell your name wrong at first? crawlningdedaman ftw?

    @ YogiRat
    Well, thats not exactly what i am looking for, but thanks anyway.

    You know, i love to be the center of attention, so flashy>practical XD (to some extent:p)
     
  16. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Well like I said before, my opinion is that Riftadin is probably the most extreme CtC-based build. Frozen Orb is one of the few skills (if not the only) that's AoE enough to kill quickly, and is Hell-viable unsynergized, since Paladins' Conviction effectively substitutes for Sorc's Cold Mastery.

    Lets take a look at the ones you mentioned:
    Destruction: CtC L12 Volcano, L23 Molten Boulder, L22 Nova. Respectively, about 200, 600, and 175 damage, before enemy resists. You do more than that just from the elemental damage on a Gimmershreds, and thats with every hit, no CtC.
    Hellmouth: CtC L12 Firestorm, L4 Meteor. Respectively, about 50 per second, and 175 max. Again, completely negligible damages.
    Dragon: CtC L18 Venom, L15 Hydra. Venom is actually a decent CtC, but poison damage isnt a fast killer since its all DoT, its more of supplementary damage. Spamming any attack thats faster than 0.4 seconds will begin to negate the benefit of Venom. Hydras will only do about 100 damage per shot.

    I might point out that the CtC Diablo's Firestorm on a Torch is, by itself, a superior CtC skill than any of the ones above, if not all of them combined.

    You can see the pattern here; unsynergized skills, even at higher levels, are completely inviable in Hell mode, with a few exceptions like Frozen Orb, or Static Field (which is only good for the first half of a fight anyway, and isnt very "flashy" :D).
     
  17. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Do'h.
    Was hoping enough CtC's would infact make it viable in hell;P im fully aware its far far far far far far far, this may take a while. Far far far from optimal. Was primary hoping for something flashy i could use to make some IRL's start playing d2 XD (they are sucker's for mass effects:p)
    aah well, maybe ill do a riftadin then.. and maybe add a few extra CtC's ^^

    EDIT: you mentioned a Paladins Conviction aura, wouldnt a Infinity wielding merc (-85% resist) be enough? or do you need the 150%?, never liked paladins so never leveled one properly.
    If it is enough then a DWing Destruction barb would maybe add some? or would a riftadin still be the way to go?
    I apologize for not giving up :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
  18. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Infy wont break most CIs; a full Conviction will break most. Also, Conviction only works at 20% vs broken immunes, so that -85 from Infy only ends up reducing resists by 17%. A -150% Conviction would reduce almost twice that, meaning it wont take forever to kill broken CIs with FO. Plus, what else are you gonna use with your Rift? Fanat will give you faster attack, but you do most of your damage via your FO CtC.

    DW Destruction barb still has the same fundamental trouble I outlined above. Even if you take it to the extreme and say you can get all monsters to -100% resist all, all you're doing is doubling the damage on Destruction's CtCs from negligible to still negligible.

    And give up :) The game hasn't changed fundamentally since 1.10, and I guarantee every possible viable combination has been explored and tested; there are no new builds to discover, there are no new worlds to conquer, at least until they release new items or runewords, or change skills, or add new zones.
     
  19. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Well... Considering i recently undusted my D2 CD's after years of, games i wont mention in fear of getting hated :shhh:
    Heck, i think the latest time i played was in 2002, dunnu what patch it was then but i think it was earlier than 1.10 :scratchchin:
    Anyway...
    I was not trying to create a new build, i was just trying to find a fun build that i failed to find using the search buttom :crazyeyes: was hoping that the CtC effects was worth a little more than negligible damage.
    Well then, Riftadin it is! Thanks for making me not wasting time in lvling something i would have to waste a retalent on :whistling:
    PS: how can a thread go from pierce+strafe triggering CtC effects to Riftadins?... aah well


     
  20. BobCox2

    BobCox2 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Strafe+Pierce CtC question

    Of course a dim vision spell works better.
    I can buy a wand.

    Want fun? throw in CTC Flee.


     

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