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strafe novice questions

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by Mike777, Feb 26, 2004.

  1. Mike777

    Mike777 IncGamers Member

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    strafe novice questions

    Hello...

    i was reading Sasja's (spell that right ?) thread on bow comparrison and i became majorly confused on certain things.

    i'd like to ask 2 questions i have concerning strafe here

    thanks to any who take the time to answer these.....

    1) Sasja mentioned strafe missing, something about frames. I am VERY uneducated on this whole "slow bow/frames 3 or 4/ias/strafe missing arrows" thing....anyone that can fully clarify this stuff to me, i'd be grateful....i understand what ias is, but, she was talking about missing whole arrows and frames that a bow launches arrows etc.....i'm way lost....i'd appreciate a novice explanation, that branches into easily understould details

    2) the cutoff for strafe skill arrows.....i have heard when it says 10 arrows, it may launch less, and that you need higher skill to get a full 10 out of 10 arrows per strafe.....what are the cutoffs for this ?

    this is about it....question 1 covers my main concerns and ignorance on this subject of strafe...a response or an extremely detailed thread from novice knowledge to experienced would be helpful

    thank you
     
  2. Krunch_Kidney

    Krunch_Kidney IncGamers Member

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    When dealing with ias, breakpoints and bowazons, there are 2 important #'s. Your firing speed is normally listed as something like 9/3 or 8/2, or 13/5. The first # refers to how many frames it takes for your bow or xbow to launch an arrow. The second # refers to how many frames it takes your bow to launch each strafe arrow (except for the first arrow in a strafe volley which is fired like a regular arrow). The second # is only important if you use strafe, all other bow skills only use the first #. It takes a certain amount of ias to reach each breakpoint, depending on what bow or xbow you are using. For example,a Goldstrike is a speed 10 bow and requires 89% ias to reach a 9/3 speed, at 120% ias it will reach a 9/2 speed. Goldstrike already has 50%ias so you would factor that in when trying to figure out how much ias you need to reach a certain breakpoint. You can find the breakpoints and bow speeds somewhere in this forum
     
  3. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    The shooting speeds of each basic bow and crossbow are given in the Amazon FAQ here http://www.diabloii.net/characters/amazon/faq2.shtml also accessable through the pull down menus at the top of the forum. Some of the information is out-of-date since it has not been updated for the 1.10 patch. The IAS tables are in section 10 and are still valid. Use the Arreat Summit to find the basic bow / Xbow speed (there are only 4 bow and 5 Xbow speeds) and then you can find out what other equipment you need to get the 9 / 3 strafe or even 9 / 2.
     
  4. lone_wolf

    lone_wolf Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    i think the thread starter wonders what next delay is not the ias break points.

    anyway as the ias thing has been answered i can say something about the next delay.

    the next delay is a 4 frame(if i remember right) thing that stops your arrows from doing any damage at all.

    so if your at the fastest speed you would miss with alot of your arrows.

    say 3 out of 5

    search for next delay it should be posts about it
     
  5. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    Strafe has an inherent next-delay feature to prevent it from being too powerful. What this means is that once a monster is hit by a Strafe-arrow, it is immune to Strafe-arrows for the next 4 frames. So if you Strafe at a single monster at 2 frames per arrow, one hit will be followed by two auto-misses. If you Strafe at 3 frames per arrow, only one auto-miss will follow a hit. If you Strafe at 5 frames per bolt, each bolt will have a chance to hit.

    After skill level 10, Strafe will shoot its maximum number of missiles (10) if there are enough monsters. The minimum number of missiles is:

    min #missiles = 2 + (slvl / 4)

    where slvl is Strafe's skill level. So at skill level 32 and higher, you'll always shoot 10 arrows with your Strafe if there's a monster in sight.
     
  6. ctewks

    ctewks IncGamers Member

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    I also read somewhere that spawning a decoy makes strafe shoot more arrows. What does that mean in light of all of this? :scratch:
     
  7. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    That is a 1.09 feature and is no longer present in 1.10.

    In 1.10 there is a new minimum number of arrows dictated by your level in Strafe. I forget the exact formula, but at high levels of Strafe you have LOTS of arrows in the air even if there's only one target.

    Oh wait, sasja covered it.

    I will add the usual disclaimer that this only really applies in the most simple cases involving very low numbers of monsters, no knockback, and nearly immobile targets.

    The feature known as "NextDelay" actually affects a lot more than Strafe arrows. A lot of Druid spells have NextDelay and can botch up everyone else using attacks that make NextDelay checks.

    Personally, I don't give a damn. I just shoot arrows and everything dies. When things dont die quick, then i'll get worried.

    I've done many, many areas of the game side by side with my wife, both of us strafing at 9/2 with WF's, and I can safely say we never had an issue killing anything, nor did our killing speed slow in the slightest :) It was a purely murderous hail of arrows.
     
  8. Mike777

    Mike777 IncGamers Member

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    thanks to all....

    Krunch_Kidney ...thanks for the speed number explanation.... fills in alot of gaps in reading the more complicated forum posts

    JoJeck ...thanks for the equipment links, including where to find the ias breaks.... also.... i usualy come in here on the fly, no time to mess around much, hence why i completely ignored the top pull down menus (because they are greyed out looking, aka, not accessible i thought)

    lone_wolf ...thanks for addressing the next delay issue... something you said leads me to another question that i'll post at the end of this post.... also, as with JoJeck's above, thanks for drawing my attention to search... seems in my rush in and out of this place i haven't been using the tools at my disposal, that are placed right under my nose

    sasja (neat name by the way) ... thanks for the detailed explanation of the next delay issue.... very helpful and i think i get ALL of this after that.... also, thanks for the minimum arrow for strafe equation (saved it for future reference) ....all this leads me to a question though or two that I'll place at the end of this post

    ctewks ...never heard of what you are talking about but....it seems....Frenzied Bovine has an answer for both of us on that

    Frenzied Bovine ...thanks for the decoy answer, and the rest of your response, but, your response brings up a question or two that's coming now

    ----

    :scratch: ok, again thanks to all but I HAVE A FEW MORE QUESTIONS

    I think after I read the links given here, and some searching, i'll be good at this stuff....

    1) am i correct in my knowledge on this so far..... that (9/2) is better than (9/3) because though they will both only hit on the 6th frame after (a hit, next delay of four, thus speed 2 hits again on frame 6 and speed 3 hits again on frame 6)....the (9/2) is still prefered because the strafe arrows though not hitting the same target, will still be shooting and may hit other targets ?....this correct ? (i hope so)

    2) someone mentioned knockback being an exception to the next delay rule.... ummmm, this true ? A monster knocked back may be hit every 2 frames?

    3) Sasja wrote, "it is immune to strafe arrows"....does the next delay immunity to "strafe arrows" apply to ALL strafe arrows ?...or just 1 particular amazon's strafe arrows? (Sasja's wording imply all, and i bet that's right)

    4) lastly..... pierce....if a monster is under the next delay immunity to strafe arrows, will your strafe arrows directed at that monster still pierce through the monster and be able to hit another monster ?....or are strafe immune monsters strafe arrow bloackers at that point?

    5) how many frames per second are there ? (i heard 30, i think)

    THAT DOES IT FOR AMAZON NEW GUY 101 CLASS

    thanks to all who contribute to my lack of education on this subject :)
     
  9. chubbypuppy

    chubbypuppy IncGamers Member

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    Looking for strafezon guide

    I'm a noob in everything except sorc, so I was wondering if I can find a strafezon guide. All of search around is coming up empty. I found two guys posting their own zones but that's about it.

    so far I have gathered the following:

    natural str around 100
    no energy
    vitality around 70-100
    rest in dex

    20 strafe
    20 CA
    20 FA
    4 in the CS/pierce/penetrate
    1 in the dodge stuff
    lots in valk, at least 17 with eq

    I would like a more complete guide though. Please help :)
     
  10. chubbypuppy

    chubbypuppy IncGamers Member

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    Oh also do I really need FA/CA?

    In the post I just did, I mentioned FA/CA. Do I really need that though as a stafer? Can I use Atma's ammy to cast amp dmg to break PI's resistances in order to just keep doing physical damage? That way I can really use the saved 40 pts and put them in valk/dodge/cs/etc.
     
  11. Krunch_Kidney

    Krunch_Kidney IncGamers Member

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    The next delay thing really only applies to when you're fighting a single monster, otherwise the faster the better. 9/2 is better than 9/3 when you're fighting more than one monster, here's a question : do strafers switch to a slower bow when fighting a single monster? There are 25 frames per second, I believe.
     
  12. Mike777

    Mike777 IncGamers Member

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    hey, good question Krunch....

    didn't think of that question....

    My answer is, yes.....the 4 frame delay, means 2 speed hits again on frame 6, as does 3... 4 speed i'm not sure, i believe that would suck and hit again on frame 8....but 5, would be better than frame 6 for a 2 speed, thus.....

    speed five strafe is best for a single moster ? (remember i'm new to this so don't bite my head off :(
     
  13. slayer37

    slayer37 IncGamers Member

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    Actually, the best strafe speed in terms of hitting a single monster with every bolt/arrow is 4.5. If I'm not mistaken, you can only do this by using xbows though I'm not sure which. Don't worry about missing arrows due to next delay, you'll be shooting so fast you won't be noticing those arrows missing. Hurray for strafeazons! :clap:
     
  14. slayer37

    slayer37 IncGamers Member

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    Actually yes. Amp damage will break PIs but will only be 20% effective. For example you have a PI monster with 100% immunity to physical attacks, when amp damage sets in, it makes that monster's immunity only 80% thus breaking the immunity. Using WWS will also produce the same effect. Normally, pure strafers have penetrate at a high level since strafe has no AR boost.
     
  15. Freyas

    Freyas IncGamers Member

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    If I remember correctly, a 4.5 speed strafe will shoot one arrow at 4 frames and then the next at 5 frames. This will lead to the 4 frame shot still coming in under the next-delay period and missing. At 5 frames, everything will hit. Any strafe speed this slow requires a crossbow, but can be advantageous. I've found that using a helhel hellrack on switch with my zon with very little other IAS can decimate single monsters, due to it's immense damage and having it able to hit every arrow(though some miss due to AR calculations anyhow).

    Even when using faster bows, if I hadn't been told about the next-delay issue, I wouldn't have noticed. Having back-to-back arrows going through a monster, the next-delay isn't much of a problem. However, without it, strafe would be far overpowered, I suppose, if you consider having a 9/2 WF that would hit a single monster 7 times in under a second(6*2 + 9 = 21 frames).

    As was mentioned earlier, the next-delay only really plays a role when you are attacking a single target. When there are multiple targets on the screen, you will alternate targets every arrow, so no monster is targeted with two consecutive arrows.

    Where knockback fits in is that when a monster is farther away, an arrow will take longer to reach the target. If you knock a target back and an arrow comes at it 4 frames later, the second arrow will likely take another frame to reach the target due to the increased distance, and will get around next-delay.

    Also, in regards to pierce, an arrow that misses a monster due to next delay will pierce, and is able to hit anything behind it.

    And finally, strafe arrows from any source will not a target that was hit by another strafe arrow within the next four frames, regardless of if that arrow was shot by the same amazon or not. Some skills by other characters also have next-delays, with varying lengths on them, and the same thing applies to them. For instance, the assassin shock web has a next delay associated with it, so if a monster just got hit by a shock web, any strafe arrows fired at it will miss until that next delay is over.
     
  16. Mike777

    Mike777 IncGamers Member

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    thank you all

    and Freyas, thanks for going over every one of my final questions and answering them.... thanks for the time

    i think i'm now no longer a novice Amazon player and can help new people pretty good now....i'm by no means an expert yet, but i know enough to make a pretty kick butt character

    thanks all, and bye
     

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