Stop the ******* school shootings!

Module88

Diabloii.Net Member
HAMC8112 said:
To a degree yes.

Would you agree that all the people you mentiion were masters when it came to fooling people?
The only person on there that falls under my category IMO is Reagan. The others didn't have to fool people to get them to follow- they only had to inspire them.

Take Mandela for example, the man was convicted for hundreds of murders and attempted murders and yet he fooled enough people over time to get the Nobel peace prize.
If you ignore the history of apartheid, sure. Were Founding Fathers of the United States terrorists and murderers as well?

I am not claiming that fooling people = leading. It is however part of it and more to the point, of all the "great" leaders we have had in history, a lot of them were indeed masters in fooling people. This is not restricted to politicians, great painters and architects, artists are included when i say leaders. People that lead the way in every field thinkable.
While sometimes it may be (and I say sometimes) necessary to stretch, I don't agree that fooling people is an integral part of leadership.
 

HAMC8112

Diabloii.Net Member
Module88 said:
Were Founding Fathers of the United States terrorists and murderers as well?
I dont know, did they burn people alive as the ANC did under the leadership of Mandela? Than maybe they were.

As a european you do not get much American history so i dont know.
 

Module88

Diabloii.Net Member
HAMC8112 said:
I dont know, did they burn people alive as the ANC did under the leadership of Mandela? Than maybe they were.

As a european you do not get much American history so i dont know.
Oh, ok. Basically, in both cases, all peaceful political options had been exhausted. Violence was used as a last resort and only such. At the end of it all, a peaceful resolution came about- there was no revenge taken out on the whites in SA as a result, and things were ended peacefully. I don't suppose you get a lot of European colonial history?
 

HAMC8112

Diabloii.Net Member
Module88 said:
Oh, ok. Basically, in both cases, all peaceful political options had been exhausted. Violence was used as a last resort and only such. At the end of it all, a peaceful resolution came about- there was no revenge taken out on the whites in SA as a result, and things were ended peacefully. I don't suppose you get a lot of European colonial history?
It almost sounds as if you say that both struggles were fought in the same manner.
 

Module88

Diabloii.Net Member
HAMC8112 said:
It almost sounds as if you say that both struggles were fought in the same manner.
Of course not. However, violence was not the preferred method of getting things done. It was only done after every peaceful method had failed.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
HAMC8112 said:
Take Mandela for example, the man was convicted for hundreds of murders and attempted murders and yet he fooled enough people over time to get the Nobel peace prize.
Now that's interesting, you believe everything on this guy's criminal record even though he as much as anyone in history had the Man out to get him... hmmm...

Module88 said:
I'd have to agree. When you meet people, at least, I can tell whether they can lead or not.
LOL. That comes out of your Zombie Survival manual, doesn't it?

Module88 said:
I believe we were talking about actual leadership here, not just fooling a a bunch of ignorant people into doing your bidding.
There's a difference?
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Module88 said:
Is that LOL joke still going around? :scratch: Regardless, I'm curious as to how you related leadership to a ZS manual.
Well, it's just that you sounded like a gormless tool reading out a hoary old cliche (with a healthy dose of incredibly overblown opinion of yourself that obviously relates to your fantasy self-image as a zombie-fighting survivalist), so I figured either you were reading something straight out of a book or you're a bigger prat than even I thought.
 

PlagueBearer

Diabloii.Net Member
quietus said:
No, the idea that we’re born into particular roles is offensive because that suggests that some individuals are somehow less important than others. I’ve seen people evolve from being followers into being leaders, and vice versa. Thus, free will. Or perhaps you’re arguing that everything we do is scripted all the way until the end of time, and we have no choice in our actions? That’s a sad, sad world that you live in.
You have total control over the decisions you make as an individual. The decisions you make on behalf of society are made by Leaders, whether you know it or not. Religion is one of the main tools evolution has given to our specied to ensure this dynamic works.

No, I didn’t. However, your arguments suggest that without religion, we will either go “rogueâ€, whatever you mean by that, or we will go insane. By completely religious, I meant that you seem to believe that as a society, we should all attend religious practices, or at the very least seek some sort of divinity.
When you have gone rogue you have separated from your tribe on a subconcious level. It seems to me, based on your description of religion, that you went rogue long before you left your church.

I disagree with this. First of all, bullying is not a winning tactic, unless you’re dealing with spineless people. Anyone capable of standing up for themselves knows this. If you want to bully your way into being a leader, you can only lead as many people as you can bully at one time. Any more than that, and those following you will realize that you’re just annoying, and will overcome you. Bully gone, society better. So much for that bully’s dominance, I guess.
Bullys invariably attract cronies, Betas to his Alpha. The heirarchy that forms due to bullying is more complex then "you can only lead as many people as you can bully at one time."

And for the record, I don’t think that we need people who are dominant over others. That’s the idea behind democracy, is it not? We elect those we think will best represent our views, rather than those who will just crush their opponents and make us all follow their will?
Your elected officials are Leaders. The social heirarchy of Leaders is separate from that of Followers.

So we’ll either be cranky and irritable, or insane, if we don’t have religion? Fascinating. I was cranky and irritable when I was following religion. Now that I’ve let it go, I’m a much happier man. I can name a number of people who feel much the same way.
I propose you had gone rogue prior to leaving your church.

And I suppose that you fancy yourself a leader, with all of this tripe that you’re throwing at us?
I don't see how that's relevant.

Trying to lecture us in the importance of faith? As … interesting, as your ideas are, I still say that you’re wrong. Our experiences as we go through life build us into the people we are. When I was a child I was the meek, frightened kid that everyone picked on. In my adult life, I’ve grown, developed into a man fully capable of supporting himself, no matter what happens. I’m no longer bullied – I carve my own path, make my own decisions, based on the experiences that I have had. And those that try to bully me get pushed to the side.
All you describe here is a shift in your place in the social heirarchy, you present no evidence that it does not exist. As for making your own decisions, you are ment to believe this.

So only children should be excused for physical bullying? It’s okay for a child who has a larger body thanks to genetics to push around those less physically gifted, just because of their size? I hope you never have children, because they’re either going to be terrible kids who bully everyone, or will get mental complexes when they come home crying about how they got bullied, and you have to explain that it’s okay, it’s just the natural order of things.
The parents of a bullied child should naturally do what they can to stop the bullying of their child; any parent would want their child as high on the heirarchy as possible.

My comments were a crude joke referencing your apparent stance, not my actual stance. I have no desire to kill anyone, I assure you, not even people who present ideas so horridly wrong and offensive as some that you’ve put forward. I know full well why I find your ideas so offensive – because I’ve been through life, I’ve experienced religion, and I’ve found myself repulsed by it. I’m a better, happier person without it, and you claim that without it, at best, I’ll be cranky and irritable… at worst, I’ll go insane. Plus, I’m bored, and I enjoy arguing. Even if I know (or at least heavily suspect) that I won’t win an argument against you because you seem like the type to be stubborn and unable to admit when you’re wrong, it makes for mental exercise.
As I see it, I hav presented a theory, to which you have objected loudly but offered no evidence to the contrary. I will not say that I am wrong about something simply because I have offended you.

This is a good example of why I find your posts offensive. You comment about my mental health as though you know me, which you don’t, and you comment about my service to society, which you know nothing about. I am in wonderful mental health, better than some churchgoers that I’ve met, and I have the advantage that I can reason out which path is the best option without having to ask myself some trite question like “What would Jesus do?†– a good many churchgoers relate to someone else for their sense of morals. I relate to myself, and consider my moral sense to be stronger for it. And perhaps surprisingly, I do more good for my community than the majority of religious people that I know. Go figure.
You are still not getting it; this issue has nothing to do with moral sense, chosing a path, or what Jesus would do. You may, in your own mind, serve society well. However, if you are psychologically removed from the tribe (rogue) you are not serving the greater will of the human organism.

Awe, that’s almost sweet. I do consider myself to have a few leadership qualities, in fact, though there are certain circumstances under which I would want to lead, and other circumstances where I know I would be inadequate. However, that’s the result of my upbringing, not the result of some random chance lottery that was rolled when I was born.
I use the capitalization to distinguish between the common usage of the word "leader" with my meaning. A Leader is someone born with a set of innate qualities:

1. No guilt
2. No capacity for faith
3. An innate desire to manipulate others

These leaders tend to have above-average intelligence and charisma. Followers can instictively sense who is and who is not a Leader on a subconcious level.

The fact that you have "leadership qualities" means little. Being a Leader is a genetic trait. You are a Leader or you are not.

As for upset, well… no, I’m not upset. I’m sorry to disappoint you, but it takes a lot more than some words on a screen to upset me.
I'm glad to hear it.
 

Module88

Diabloii.Net Member
dondrei said:
Well, it's just that you sounded like a gormless tool reading out a hoary old cliche (with a healthy dose of incredibly overblown opinion of yourself that obviously relates to your fantasy self-image as a zombie-fighting survivalist), so I figured either you were reading something straight out of a book or you're a bigger prat than even I thought.
So, in order to be good judge of character, one must have intimate knowledge of a zombie survival manual? Get over yourself dude.

Oh, and because I feel pity for you, I'll give you a hint: you're the only one not getting the OTF PM's. Vague, I know, but I can't spoil it or that wouldn't be any fun.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Module88 said:
So, in order to be good judge of character, one must have intimate knowledge of a zombie survival manual? Get over yourself dude.
I fail to see how a social reject who spends all his time fighting imaginary zombies could possibly be a good judge of character.

And given your opinion of yourself, you're obviously not a good judge of your own.

Module88 said:
Oh, and because I feel pity for you, I'll give you a hint: you're the only one not getting the OTF PM's. Vague, I know, but I can't spoil it or that wouldn't be any fun.
Restarting Forum Assassin, eh? I'm sure you'll lose gloriously.

The only people I pity are the ones who have to listen to your idea of strategy.
 

HAMC8112

Diabloii.Net Member
dondrei said:
Now that's interesting, you believe everything on this guy's criminal record even though he as much as anyone in history had the Man out to get him... hmmm...

Yeah, i am making it all up. Mandela didnt kill people. And neither did his former wife, Winnie mandela. That was all lies, they did not abduct kids, they did not torture them to death. They did not rape them kids. They did not chop off limbs. They did not bind people to poles, they did not hang car tires around their necks, they did not set fire to them tires.

That was all lies from the apartheid goverment.

LOL! Mandela, the peace prize massmurderer.
 

Module88

Diabloii.Net Member
dondrei said:
I fail to see how a social reject who spends all his time fighting imaginary zombies could possibly be a good judge of character.

And given your opinion of yourself, you're obviously not a good judge of your own.

Restarting Forum Assassin, eh? I'm sure you'll lose gloriously.

The only people I pity are the ones who have to listen to your idea of strategy.
Oh man dondrei, you kill me man- no more, please! You're funny as hell, I have to say that much. :flip: :prop: :cloud9:

Edit: Oh yeah, one more thing. Speaking of social rejects, look who's talking. :wave: No more, please. I really can't afford to puke up my lungs due to laughter right now.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
HAMC8112 said:
Yeah, i am making it all up. Mandela didnt kill people. And neither did his former wife, Winnie mandela. That was all lies, they did not abduct kids, they did not torture them to death. They did not rape them kids. They did not chop off limbs. They did not bind people to poles, they did not hang car tires around their necks, they did not set fire to them tires.

That was all lies from the apartheid goverment.

LOL! Mandela, the peace prize massmurderer.
How amusing, you absolutely believe every charge laid by the Afrikaner police? That's hilarious coming from you.

I guess the police are only out to set people up when it's convenient for you to feel sorry for yourself.

Module88 said:
Speaking of social rejects, look who's talking. :wave:
There's a difference between rejecting society and being rejected by society. :wink3:
 

Module88

Diabloii.Net Member
dondrei said:
There's a difference between rejecting society and being rejected by society. :wink3:
Don't worry, don. When I leave the forums eventually, I'll explain everything to you (if you're still hear) and everything will become very clear.
 
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