Stop the ******* school shootings!

PlagueBearer

Diabloii.Net Member
Star Dust said:
No, poor parenting is causing more and more unbalanced minds. Churches and marriages aren't necessary. Kids can grow up with balanced minds and good parents that aren't married and do not go to church. The last thing anybody needs is old traditions and institutions for the sake of old traditions and institutions. The last thing anybody needs is more irrationality.
It doesn't even matter whether the parents themselves are married or not, or weather that particular child is raised with God in their lives; the waning of marriage and faith effects everyone. Now, these aren't the only factors: over-population, television, celebrities, suburban sprawl... all of them are taking our lives further and further from the conditions that our minds have evolved to deal with.

Our (and again, by "our" I mean "your") minds are wired for faith: it fills a need within us, it gives us a "high". It's likely this evolved as a control mechanism.

It doesn't even really matter what is beleived in; the religeous experiance is a vital part of being human. With it gone, our (your) minds become imbalanced and violent. You go into a "rogue" state of mind, simmilar to how lions go insane separated from a pride.
 

Stoutwood

Diabloii.Net Member
ProjectHate said:
I bet kids are gonna be trying to kill even more people then the last school shooter thus making it a contest.
Honestly it doesn't take much to shoot up a school ..people suicide everyday why not kill a buncha people then kill yourself. Not saying that I'd do it but it doesn't seem so unlogical to me.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Why kill yourself and be forgotten when you can be a household name for years to come if you one-up those Columbine kids? It's true that school shootings have become a lot more common since then.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
HAMC8112 said:
Stop wasting m's. Think of the environment.


Bortaz said:
This kind of thing is the result of a lack of discipline and a lack of teaching people right from wrong (used to be done through parenting). This country is more and more moving away from its moral background.

People no longer are raised with a moral, right-from-wrong basis to their lives...kids are allowed to do as they please, and their parents are kept from correcting bad behavior...no spanking, no punishment for ****ing up...therapy and "free love" is all they get nowadays. We have teenaged boys wearing make-up and girls pants. We have "alternative" lifestyles being forcefed to the kids from pre-school on up.

The weirdos get picked on, then end up killing someone over it. Their parents shouldn't have let them become weirdos in the first place.
Oh yeah, it's all the fault of hippies (free love? I was a kid not that long ago and I don't remember getting any of that...), queers and moral relativists.

Wait a minute... you aren't being serious, are you? I don't remember you being this nutty.

PlagueBearer said:
It doesn't even matter whether the parents themselves are married or not, or weather that particular child is raised with God in their lives; the waning of marriage and faith effects everyone. Now, these aren't the only factors: over-population, television, celebrities, suburban sprawl... all of them are taking our lives further and further from the conditions that our minds have evolved to deal with.

Our (and again, by "our" I mean "your") minds are wired for faith: it fills a need within us, it gives us a "high". It's likely this evolved as a control mechanism.

It doesn't even really matter what is beleived in; the religeous experiance is a vital part of being human. With it gone, our (your) minds become imbalanced and violent. You go into a "rogue" state of mind, simmilar to how lions go insane separated from a pride.
You're right, the world is such a terrible place because people aren't religious. Let's go back to the Dark Ages when everyone was brimming over with faith and things were just peachy.

Module88 said:
Stop trying to ruin my vacation. Link. Now remember our earlier discussion?

"Witnesses quoted by local media said a janitor confronted the student and grabbed the shotgun, but the suspect pulled out a .22-caliber gun and fired several shots, striking Klang.

Klang tackled his assailant and a teacher and other students came to help, holding the suspect until police arrived."

In other words, the shooter missed the guy who was pretty much at point blank (pulled the shotgun away from him) range and hit the guy behind him. Then a bunch of other people helped out and neutralized him. :Sigh: :fortuneteller:
I suppose you think he would've fared much better if armed with a knife?

He killed one person, which about puts him on par with all of those "knife rampages" you linked to. Go back to fighting imaginary zombies.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Yaboosh said:
If there is one constant in the world, it is that everybody thinks things are getting worse, no matter what reality is.
THANK YOU, this thread was making me a very sad panda.

Stoutwood said:
I think you hit the nail on the head. Why kill yourself and be forgotten when you can be a household name for years to come if you one-up those Columbine kids? It's true that school shootings have become a lot more common since then.
It's possible, I wouldn't jump to conclusions though. It might have been on the rise anyway.
 

PlagueBearer

Diabloii.Net Member
MadMachine said:
You're kidding, right? :shocked:

Maybe other kids' parents should teach them to have an open mind about people's different ways of expressing themselves rather than forcing them to conform to society's standards of what is acceptable.
Humans naturally choose to conform. Even "Goth" kids are conforming, just to a different mold. Feeling rejected from their tribe, these children desperatly cannot. Proper parenting (two parents who do not compete with each other for the child's favor) would force the child to try and confom, for the sake of tribal unity.

The problem is, these children see another "tribe" that wants them and accepts them. In nature, parents would quell this behavior; after all, "their" tribe the one the children wish to leave. Now, however, the parents dont understand the danger in this, and allow it.

Children, whos minds operate on a more primitive level than adults, see things more clearly; they see another tribe growing in their midst and stop it with violence, intimidation and brutality. This is a natural behavior to one who is different.

It is not the "bully's" fault, nor his parents. We're all operating under a set of instincts that learned behavio can only do so much to alter.
 

PlagueBearer

Diabloii.Net Member
dondrei said:
You're right, the world is such a terrible place because people aren't religious. Let's go back to the Dark Ages when everyone was brimming over with faith and things were just peachy.
Too much faith is as bad as too little. Remember that faith is a control mechanism? A major problem in the dark ages was the leadership became overly concerned with personal gain and used an over-abundance of faith to keep the population under control. It's akin to a hospital turning the drip of morphine up higher to keep an agitated patient sedate; not alot of long term good, but it helps keep the status quo.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
PlagueBearer said:
Too much faith is as bad as too little. Remember that faith is a control mechanism? A major problem in the dark ages was the leadership became overly concerned with personal gain and used an over-abundance of faith to keep the population under control. It's akin to a hospital turning the drip of morphine up higher to keep an agitated patient sedate; not alot of long term good, but it helps keep the status quo.
Religion is a sedative? Or a narcotic in high doses? Well, I suppose it was famously called the opiate of the masses...

I find it extremely arrogant when people try to blame the ills of society on the waning of their religion. Like people can only act in an ethical way if they are religious.

And anyway, most of our social problems (particularly the ones that people who make this argument like to point to) are at historical lows.
 

Angel_Dusted

Diabloii.Net Member
I was content to read without giving any input, but no, you just had to make an argument so foolhardy that you forced me to respond.

PlagueBearer said:
Humans naturally choose to conform. Even "Goth" kids are conforming, just to a different mold.
Yes, and do you know why? It's not because of some kind of "lion separated from the pride" analogy, it's because we have an urge to mate. That's right, by conforming we have an increased chance of having sex and continuing our legacy, something which is a biological facet of humans. Don't believe me? Think about this the next time you're looking at what nature has caused you to define as a "hot chick."

PlagueBearer said:
Feeling rejected from their tribe, these children desperatly cannot. Proper parenting (two parents who do not compete with each other for the child's favor) would force the child to try and confom, for the sake of tribal unity.
First off, that isn't proper parenting. That sort of parenting contributes to spoiled children who are less able to adapt to the real world, where people will not automatically cater to their whims. Second off, I refer you to the point that I'm about to make, which is that...

PlagueBearer said:
The problem is, these children see another "tribe" that wants them and accepts them. In nature, parents would quell this behavior; after all, "their" tribe the one the children wish to leave. Now, however, the parents dont understand the danger in this, and allow it.
...your ideas of conformity are a bit off. A good bit. Children don't conform because of parents, they conform in spite of them. Empirical research, would a quick check on Google would easily enough reveal, indicates that children conform to their social surroundings regardless of their home environments. Disclaimer: This is a generalization, meaning that it only applies to a majority and that there are exceptions to this rule.

PlagueBearer said:
Children, whos minds operate on a more primitive level than adults, see things more clearly; they see another tribe growing in their midst and stop it with violence, intimidation and brutality. This is a natural behavior to one who is different.

It is not the "bully's" fault, nor his parents. We're all operating under a set of instincts that learned behavio can only do so much to alter.
Not at all. It is the bully's fault, and to some extent his parents' as well. I'm not going to bother trying to go into the many theories of why bullies opperate the way that they do, seeing as people of far higher credentials than I have written papers several hundred pages long on the topic. The main reasons for bullying, however, have to do with self-esteem, social standing, or simple racist/sexist/etc. hatred, the latter of which is greatly influenced by parents, whose beliefs will predispose their child towards a certain way of regarding others, much as is the case with their passing down of political beliefs.

This should be fun.
 

Module88

Diabloii.Net Member
dondrei said:
I suppose you think he would've fared much better if armed with a knife?

He killed one person, which about puts him on par with all of those "knife rampages" you linked to. Go back to fighting imaginary zombies.
Says the man who thinks SWAT teams aren't trained to deal with innocent bystanders. In this scenario, I don't think the casualties would have been any different, rather, that the principal (or someone else) may not have made it to the hospital (being that he'd have the element of surprise). Well, unless we was carrying a machete and ski mask, or something. I suppose that would blow his cover pretty quickly. I mean, I hope you aren't going to tr to argue guns are stealthier than knives (three for one right there). Killed eight people, and got away? For shame.

But hey, you guys are right. Knives should be banned. What the hell is the point (pun intended) anyway?
 

Bortaz

Banned
dondrei said:
Oh yeah, it's all the fault of hippies (free love? I was a kid not that long ago and I don't remember getting any of that...), queers and moral relativists.

Wait a minute... you aren't being serious, are you? I don't remember you being this nutty.

You're right, the world is such a terrible place because people aren't religious. Let's go back to the Dark Ages when everyone was brimming over with faith and things were just peachy.
I didn't mention a single queer or religion in my post. Like most idiots today, you assume morals are only for the "religious nutjobs" and that being gay is the only lifestyle that is "alternative".
 

PlagueBearer

Diabloii.Net Member
dondrei said:
Religion is a sedative? Or a narcotic in high doses? Well, I suppose it was famously called the opiate of the masses...
A hallucinagen, even. "Communing with God" or "Having the holy spirit within you" come with a feeling of euphoria akin to heavy drug use, and light op the brain simmilarly. There's a reason Rastafarians believe smoking marijuana will help you find god; basically, it will.

I find it extremely arrogant when people try to blame the ills of society on the waning of their religion. Like people can only act in an ethical way if they are religious.
I do not blame anthing on the waning of "my" religion, as I have none. Nor is it an issue of "ethics" even. Many people are simply born addicted to God, and without it they become unbalanced. Many feel nothing. Many feel like something is missing from their lives but never know what. Some "find God" and are "born again" A few can't take it, and snap. Finally, I don't indend to blame all problems on a drop in faith; it is one factor amung many for this specific problem. I mentioned many other contributors in a previous post.

And anyway, most of our social problems (particularly the ones that people who make this argument like to point to) are at historical lows.
Good to hear.
 

PlagueBearer

Diabloii.Net Member
Angel_Dusted said:
Yes, and do you know why? It's not because of some kind of "lion separated from the pride" analogy, it's because we have an urge to mate. That's right, by conforming we have an increased chance of having sex and continuing our legacy, something which is a biological facet of humans. Don't believe me? Think about this the next time you're looking at what nature has caused you to define as a "hot chick."
The desire to mate is the root of all our other instincts, Dusted. This is why outcasted children will generally try to find a new tribe where their status is not yet established. This is the most basic instict: survive to breed. It does not rule out other motives any more than "1" rules out other divisors.

First off, that isn't proper parenting. That sort of parenting contributes to spoiled children who are less able to adapt to the real world, where people will not automatically cater to their whims. Second off, I refer you to the point that I'm about to make, which is that...
You must have misunderstood: parents who compete with each other for a child's affections (often divorced parents) are far more likely to "cater to their whims." This is not proper parenting, I agree, and I'm sorry if I was unclear.

...your ideas of conformity are a bit off. A good bit. Children don't conform because of parents, they conform in spite of them. Empirical research, would a quick check on Google would easily enough reveal, indicates that children conform to their social surroundings regardless of their home environments. Disclaimer: This is a generalization, meaning that it only applies to a majority and that there are exceptions to this rule.
This conflicts in no way with what I have said; children naturally conform with those around them. The rise of counter-cultures within out high-school populations (and alot younger now as well) is a growing attempt for children who had been pushed to the bottom of the social order to simply create a new social order, a new tribe. This sets the stage for violence. Faith and strong parenting (two parents, no competetive) mitigates the urge to change tribal allegance.

Not at all. It is the bully's fault, and to some extent his parents' as well.
It's as natural as an alpha lion wounding a young rival, or a matriarch whale forcing another female to abort her pregnancy. Establishing dominance is entirely natural behavior in any social species.

I'm not going to bother trying to go into the many theories of why bullies opperate the way that they do, seeing as people of far higher credentials than I have written papers several hundred pages long on the topic. The main reasons for bullying, however, have to do with self-esteem, social standing...
Yes.

...or simple racist/sexist/etc. hatred...
Aha, exactly what I'm talking about. Where normal bullying is simple status wrangling, when a child senses someone is of a different tribe things can escalate quickly. This is why goth-bashing can be so much more brutal than, say, nerd-bashing.

...the latter of which is greatly influenced by parents, whose beliefs will predispose their child towards a certain way of regarding others, much as is the case with their passing down of political beliefs.
Very true. Parents pass down exactly what constitutes "our tribe" to their children, which can generate racist and homophobic violence. This does, I will note, weaken your "Children don't conform because of parents, they conform in spite of them" argument. Children raised racist will emulate this behavior, conforming to the mold their parents' cast.

This should be fun.
I'm not sure what you're refering to here.
 

Yaboosh

Diabloii.Net Member
What? Crime rates have dropped, have church attendance rates also dropped?

OMG CHURCH CAUSES CRIME!
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Module88 said:
Says the man who thinks SWAT teams aren't trained to deal with innocent bystanders. In this scenario, I don't think the casualties would have been any different, rather, that the principal (or someone else) may not have made it to the hospital (being that he'd have the element of surprise). Well, unless we was carrying a machete and ski mask, or something. I suppose that would blow his cover pretty quickly. I mean, I hope you aren't going to tr to argue guns are stealthier than knives (three for one right there). Killed eight people, and got away? For shame.

But hey, you guys are right. Knives should be banned. What the hell is the point (pun intended) anyway?
You've picked up JM's posting style.

Article 1: the victims were ASLEEP.
Article 2: the guy entered one classroom, stabbed a bunch of children and then ran to the next where he was overpowered (by teachers, I assume). So basically, he faced at most one adult in the first classroom which he successfully overpowered (I assume, it doesn't say except that only one teacher remained in a serious condition), but by the time he got to the next people were alerted and just like I say, he was overcome. Why? Because HE ONLY HAD A KNIFE, THAT'S WHY!
Article 3: all of the statistics presented here are irrelevant to whatever point you're trying to make.
Article 4: no content.

Did I ever say I support a ban on knives? I don't. Why? Because KNIVES AREN'T NEARLY AS LETHAL AS GUNS.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Bortaz said:
I didn't mention a single queer or religion in my post. Like most idiots today, you assume morals are only for the "religious nutjobs" and that being gay is the only lifestyle that is "alternative".
You'll kindly notice I didn't mention religion in any of the stuff that was responding to you either.

And I got queers from "We have teenaged boys wearing make-up and girls pants".

I suppose you're talking about goth, emo and whatever then - well that's just as bad.

Yaboosh said:
What? Crime rates have dropped, have church attendance rates also dropped?

OMG CHURCH CAUSES CRIME!
Exactly.
 

Star Dust

Diabloii.Net Member
PlagueBearer said:
It doesn't even matter whether the parents themselves are married or not, or weather that particular child is raised with God in their lives; the waning of marriage and faith effects everyone. Now, these aren't the only factors: over-population, television, celebrities, suburban sprawl... all of them are taking our lives further and further from the conditions that our minds have evolved to deal with.

Our (and again, by "our" I mean "your") minds are wired for faith: it fills a need within us, it gives us a "high". It's likely this evolved as a control mechanism.

It doesn't even really matter what is beleived in; the religeous experiance is a vital part of being human. With it gone, our (your) minds become imbalanced and violent. You go into a "rogue" state of mind, simmilar to how lions go insane separated from a pride.
No, you're simply wrong. Religion isn't necessary for one to be moral and disciplined.
 

HAMC8112

Diabloii.Net Member
PlagueBearer said:
the religeous experiance is a vital part of being human. With it gone, our (your) minds become imbalanced and violent. You go into a "rogue" state of mind, simmilar to how lions go insane separated from a pride.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

It is a good thing i know you are making it up, otherwise i'd call you crazy.:laugh:

Edit: that would be a built in selfdestruct mode, built in by God. You will believe in me or die! Lol
 
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