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Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by razen, Dec 12, 2009.

  1. razen

    razen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    Everytime I leave the forum for a brief extend of the time, I always come back and something new. It's like watching a baby cousin. If you are near him/her everyday, you might not notice the difference. But a year or two? It's like "wow, what happened?"

    The last time I observe this topic was when WOW first came out and the idea of monthly subscription was just taking off. Nobody at the time thought it would work, but hey... WOW now has a GDP that rivals Norway.

    Well, I am not here to debate the merit of monthly payment vs one time pay, but rather... I like to note that upon coming back to the forum after so long, the attitude toward subscription seems to change a lot.

    I think the normality of WOW definitely has something to do with it. As with everything now, maintenance has become the new money maker of the new century. Service sectors will become a new force in the economy, if this isn't apparently obvious to anyone yet. The old days when you can buy a TV, broke it 20 years later and still got repair are effectively over. Can you believe Target used to have a no-time-limit refund policy?

    (And I guess I apologize on behalf of Asians everywhere, we kind of ruined it for you by taking massive advantage of you. So if you can't refund that jacket you bought 3 months ago but decided to wear it for the first time and found it misfitting? Sorry, oops... our bad.)

    So anyways, my point is... people are just more accepting to monthly payment now! Remember when we thought 4.99 dial-up internet will never die? Well, it died.

    To sum up, just like to throw this question out there: When you think of subscription pay, do you now take the attitude that:

    1) Oh darn it, but everyone else does it...
    2) Can't help it, I want to play so bad
    3) Didn't even notice
    4) I still hate paying

    (I think I am number 2)
     
  2. Funkopotamus

    Funkopotamus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    I think everyone thought p2p would work for a mmorpg. Everquest seemed to do just fine.
     
  3. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    Yup, subscription-based MMOs had already been around for a few years before WoW was released, so no surprises there.

    The simple fact is that D3 must remain playable offline (singleplayer), and for that reason it can never rely on an online source of support to fix in-game problems (e.g. game masters), which is what much of the subscription money would normally be used for.

    Blizzard are well past the point where they can keep the servers up without charging people extra, so I think we should be happy we'll get to play D3 online for free.


     
  4. GoldenBird

    GoldenBird Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    I'm #4, I'll be really pissed if I have to p2p. I really doubt they'd implement it though, since it's not a mmorpg.
     
  5. Silverfang

    Silverfang Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    It was with Ryzom that the ArGe (institute of germans social system) made me break the subscription contract. They even wanted back the money that i've already payed for the game. So nope. Won't buy. Can't pay. Even if I wanted to and could spare the actual money.
     
  6. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    You were using welfare money for an MMO?


     
  7. Silverfang

    Silverfang Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    There is no other money as welfare money available to me. And if there were, the welfare would be cut. Or, if I would find a job that brings money in, 80% would have to be paid directly at the ArGe. (With the limit of 1500€ brutto, whereas one is allowed to leave the welfaresystem without having to pay the 80% off the wage)

    edit: The 1500€ has to be reached with one solitary job. If you're getting 2200€ with two or more jobs, but none above the 1500€, you still are into the welfare-system, thus having your wages "cut" by 80%...


     
  8. BatSoup

    BatSoup Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    ...It's true....I've finally found it,....the instance where mathematics breaks down completely into nonsensical numbers pulled from the rear end of a politician......

    On a more related, less humor-oriented note, I think that subscriptions are more appropriate for games that lack a single-player option, and that were designed specifically for the mmo genre. I say this because there's people like me that, if d3 were on subscription, would simply mirror the patch and play LAN games or single, with only a rare foray on bnet.


     
  9. Srikandi

    Srikandi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    Actually, the new thing these days is not monthly payments. It's micro-transactions (in-game items and perks you have to pay for). Which I personally find intensely irritating... because in a multiplayer game, IMO, everybody really has to be playing the same game. And that applies not only to gear, but also to stash space, character slots and the other stuff that some folks seem to think would be ok to charge extra for. Where time invested = success, "convenience" provides a competitive advantage.

    However, the model has been extremely successful in Asia, and plenty of companies are working hard at pushing the model in the US. Just look at the ever-increasing amount of DLC in games like Dragon Age, or the Sims Store, where you can pay real money for game objects... which with the next patch is going to be embedded directly in the game :p

    The issue with monthly payments, btw, is that while plenty of people don't mind doing it for ONE game, not many are gonna pay a subscription for more than one... because every time you play Game A, you're wasting the money you paid for Game B. Blizz doesn't want Diablo taking monthly dollars away from WoW, so I doubt they'll ever go to monthly payments for D3, unless possibly via a deal where the same payment lets you play any of their games. That wouldn't solve the problem for, say, Warhammer players, though.
     
  10. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    I think that's what scares me the most: a B.net subscription, bundling WoW, SC2 and D3 together. I'd rather D3 was free, but that's looking like a longshot.


     
  11. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    Well, they did say players would have the "ability" to play SC2 for free. While incredibly awkwardly phrased, I guess that means there will be no fees associated with basic gameplay (both online and offline), so I see no reason why the same wouldn't apply to D3, with both games having a single-player mode and being very small-scale games in terms of multiplayer.

    There will most likely be some kind of technical-related microtransactions (WoW has server change, character name/race change etc.) for both games, but that's a different thing.
     
  12. Ed from Russia

    Ed from Russia Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    Subscription fees are unavoidable. Blizzard isn't going to be happy with a one-time charge.

    Frankly I don't really care. I'm willing to pay $20 per month if it means that the game will run smoothly and Blizzard offers service and regular upgrades that bring improvements to the game.
     
  13. Srikandi

    Srikandi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    Blizz has said, repeatedly IIRC, that D3 will not be subscription based. So this is not true, at least not in THEIR view, and they should know.

    But the one-time charge isn't the only alternative :p Read the thread!


     
  14. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    On that thought, what could they charge for in D3? Character names, obviously. Realm changes, probably. But there are no factions, no races, and so far, no aesthetic customizations (hair style, tattoos, etc). I doubt a lot of Diablo fans would want vanity pets (even if it was a mini Tyrael). So what else would they charge for?


     
  15. Ed from Russia

    Ed from Russia Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    I wasn't aware of that. Frankly, I really don't mind paying if it means there are no annoying lags and regular/useful updates.



     
  16. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    It comes down to whatever optional features that people would want to pay for, as well as what features Battle.net 2.0 will support and how those will interact with D3. Generally, Blizzard only charge extra for the seldomly needed tech stuff in addition to aesthetic fluff, so other than the things already mentioned, there's not a lot more to add. They could expand that list to include more substantial things like XP bonuses, guild houses, special mercenaries etc, but seeing as those have a much bigger impact on gameplay, they're far less likely and should IMO not be expected.


     
  17. TurtleBay

    TurtleBay Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    Just thinking out loud here, but I think it would be interesting if they had a competitive environment and a non-competitive environment similar to ladder and non-ladder in D2 and let you micro-transact for any unique/gem item in the non-competitive (non-ladder) environment for a few bucks. This would kill some attempts to hack or dupe in D3 because a majority of players could get their hands on a char with elite items for less than $20 and have fun being invincible in non-ladder while competitive players, the race to level 99, grailers, etc could play ladder where micro transactions were not allowed and wouldn't disrupt the balance.


     
  18. boblabla

    boblabla Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    if i go out and pay $60 for a new game, i shouldn't have to pay an additional monthly fee to play it the way it's meant to be played.
     
  19. sectoid

    sectoid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    x2

    So, number 4 for me.

    Subscription-based games should be free to download and try for some days or one month. Then, if you want to continue playing, you just go on paying the subscription. There should be no need to pay for the game per se, since you cannot really play it anytime you want.

    That said, I would only accept this for MMO's, and even though I accept it in this case, the subscription is enough reason for me to not play ANY MMO. I simply don't think the "service" is worth the money, since it's basically addiction sold as software. Aside from a few exceptions, most MMO's are brainless, story-less grinding games. The sad thing is that games like our very own Diablo helped the most to show that a lot of people like and are willing to pay for this "drug".

    Torchlight and Borderlands didn't cut it for me, for instance. I had no real reason to read any of the rubbish texts these games presented. That is even acknowledged by the game producers that said they focused on the gameplay (Torchlight's case). There was no real story, no real purpose, not even any real role-playing. Addictive games are fine by themselves, people should have the brains or be taught since children to know limits. The main difference in them to MMO's is that although they do addict you, they are not meant to suck your money, time and life away. How much news about people losing jobs or even dying from playing MMO's non-stop have you heard? And how much of these same stories from playing normal games?

    I think it's really dumb when people compare the "fun" you get from an MMO fee to the "fun" you get from other things like a movie ticket. They're simply not thinking it through and trying to convince others that their addiction is normal, or not even an addiction. Another terrible thing is that "they"'ve (the game industry) managed to put on the children and teenager's minds that a company isn't able to pay for the game's "maintenance" without a monthly fee. That may be the case of a huge MMO like WoW that has ONE big game world (major reason for really sucking up money with hardware) for hundreds of thousands of players that also need a lot of support personnel. That's NOT the case of games with only city hubs for players to go all together and world instances with few players where the action really goes on. And if the game hasn't got a real big number of subscribers, the high cost with support also doesn't exist.

    If that bullcrap was true, there wouldn't be free services like Steam. Heck, if that was true, we should all pay to enter any popular website! If common people can afford to run websites, major game companies are able to run simple MMO's without monthly fees. There are certainly MMO's that don't fit into this category, but that's not the reality of the market right now. Both small/simple and big/complex MMO's ask you the same amount of your monthly money, and that's because their objective is to addict you and suck you dry, not provide you a good product.

    Just like a drug dealer, but a legal one, in this case.

    I vote ban the MMO's! :fire:

    Disclaimer: I'm only providing my personal opinion and some food for thought here :)


     
  20. Silverfang

    Silverfang Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Stir Up the Hornet's Nest: Subscription Play for D3

    There were some cases of death while playing starcraft in korea. I even read about one related with nonstopplay of d2.

    Although I'm with similar opinion, you're a bit onesided here. Not only the gaming industry is to blame for existence of this way to increase profits. Also we (aka the gamers) are responsible for monthly fees and downloadcontent beeing growing markets by buying the games anyway. (Imho that's quite the same as it was with the "loss" of gimmicks in standart gameboxes at the last decade of the century.)


     

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