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Stamina, identifying and durability systems

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by lumpor, Jun 17, 2008.

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Which of the stamina, identifying and durability systems do you want to keep?

  1. All of them

    16 vote(s)
    64.0%
  2. Stamina and identify

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  3. Stamina and durability

    3 vote(s)
    12.0%
  4. Identify and durability

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  5. Stamina

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Identify

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  7. Durability

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  8. None

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
  1. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    Being able to run faster after having rested, and then walk slowly again, needing to identify magic items, and needing to repair your items if they brake.

    Two of those systems (identify and durability, I think) were in Diablo 1. They maybe feel like traditions. But after thinking a bit, do those 3 systems really contribute anything to the game? sure, they make it more realistic, but this is an rpg anyway. And anyway, if you get too tired to run after running for a couple of minutes, how come you can spin around like a madman (whirlwind skill) for hours and still be able to continue as if you just had a good nights sleep? I think stamina, identifying, and durability systems are a bit unnecessary. Just imagine being able to run around freely without needing to look down on your yellow bar, or not needing to teleport to town every time you find an iteresting item, or being able to use your money to more important things other than repairing. I know charges need a repair system, but can't there be some mage who recharges your items instead oj going to a blacksmith? Also, you may think ethereal items won't work, but you can write durability on those kind of items alone. Don't need to have a durability system on all other items because of that. Anyway, of all the systems, I find the identifying system the most useless one. Seriously, what does it contribute to the game? Actually, it just makes people mad. When I had a mac with a mouse that didn't have right-click I didn't know how to identify (or use potions or spells lol, I couldn't defeat blood raven). I was also poor because of that, and stared at amazement at helms, studded leather armors, large shields and chain boots and at their price. then, a corrupt rogue dropped a magic large shield. i was filled with excitement. OMG, a large shield! Those that cost like over 1000 gold! And then I saw it was unidentified, I got SO angry! I finally got an expensive item and I couldn't equip it. So I had to just what I had done with all my other magic items and potions, I sold it. Even though there are few people with the problems that I had, I still don't really think the identifying system contributes anything
     
  2. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    Giant wall of text!

    It's a reason to rescue Cain. Cain identifies without a right-click. :) Who wants to pay 80 gold for a scroll, or 100 for not rescuing Cain? Personally, it doesn't take much time, and it actually adds anticipation.

    Gold sacred armour? Wonder if it's time for a Tyraels?
    Otherwise, a Gold Templar's Might would drop, and you'd ignore it not even getting interested. (Maybe unique rings are a better example.)

    I personally don't mind them. Stamina only affects early characters, and stamina potions drop a bit, as well as investing early in Vitality.

    As to repairing, I barely repair often anyway, and it's a single "Repair all" click. No problem in my mind.

    Oh, and the stamina/run feature is a welcome change to D1! 'Argh, Butcher's stronger than I thought! Walk away quickly now!' Hehe, memories. D1 had such a darker feel to it.
     
  3. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    sorry for the wall of text, I'll try to not make more of them.

    And while you're right that all three of the systems don't do much bother, do they do alot of good? If you never run out of stamina, then why have a stamina bar? and well, for items that have many different uniques (like sacred armor), isn't it just good if the identifying system goes away, so you don't need to waste time to pick up those templars mights.

    And anyway, a quest requires you to rescue Cain, so you have to rescue him anyway (except if you rush, which is quite stupid).

    And about repairing, I agree that it really isn't that annoying at all to repair your equipment, but can you mention how it makes the game more fun? I personally am not filled with joy because I need to click on a button every couple of hours to be able to continue fighting
     
  4. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    I actually like the 'suspense' of wondering if a Ring is a BK/SoJ or another manald/nagel. It adds 'something' IMO.
    But I can see that removing ID'ing would make D2 easier (and more enjoyable for some people).

    The quest isn't actually needed. If you don't rescue Cain in Act 1, he still appears in Act 2, but he'll charge you 100 gold for each identify. You can go back and rescue him later though.

    No I can't mention how it makes it more fun. But my view is that it doesn't really detract from the game either. I don't even notice it.

    But that's my point of view, and I know some will share and some will not share the view, so I'm happy to agree to disagree. :) But I know where you're coming from. There are other aspects that I wouldn't mind changed. *shakes fist at Blizzard*
     
  5. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    There is a heated debate on necessity of identifying in D3 subforum. I joined the debate. Having played Titan's quest, one of the things I really liked about it was the thing that I immediatly see what crap dropped from monsters and I even don't have to pick the items up. Imagine that you press an alt button and see "Amulet of Life". You don't have to pick up thousands of amulets before you get your Archangel amulet of Life Everalasting. Much easier, reduces lot of the town trips, allow bigger number of charms etc.

    Stamina is kind of redundant either.
    Durability, well etehreal weapons have disadvantage of crashing, so I guess it has some purpose.
     
  6. Skinhead On The MBTA

    Skinhead On The MBTA IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    I like them all to be honest, Stamina seems the most useless to me, but since I never run out of stamina anyway, it doesn't seem to matter much.

    Identifying adds to the suspense of the game, just like Drystan said.

    Durability makes the game more realistic (which makes it good IMO), but if there was no durability, then the Impale skill would only have one bad thing going for it (the ridiculously slow speed).

    By the way - macs can use two-buttoned mice, or you can use the command button with the mouse to have the same effect.
     
  7. Ockut

    Ockut IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    I too am with Drystan on the whole unique ring ID suspense. Is it a SoJ? Of course not, its another Nagel Ring, oh the MF% is really low too.

    I see no problem with all of them, I find none impact my gameplay in a negative manner. Kind of exciting as a low level encountering an extra fast boss pack and seeing that stamina bar turn red, stops you kiting to a degree. Once you manage to loot FRW/Stamina reduce boots then its not really a concern, plus chugging a few stamina potions and the wealth of stamina shrines dotted around the landscape make it a non issue imho.

    Never have any trouble with durability either, seem to make enough trips back to town to sell various bits and bobs, quick dash over to Charsi, Larzuk whoever isn't a big deal. The only Act that I find repairs annoying is Act 3 as Hralti is miles away, is only made tolerable by a quick detour to gossip with the oh so cool Natalya.
     
  8. dune6836

    dune6836 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    i voted all of them.

    i do think that stamina should be re balanced to make it an issue throughout a chrs life and not just act1 normal. it shouldnt grow so fast and the stamina drain of heavier armour should be increased. if not then just get rid of it altogether as it seems to serve little purpose as it is.
     
  9. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    I voted to keep all of them.

    Each plays a role in this game. Even in later game, you need stamina. Running around when facing ancient is one example stamina is important.
     
  10. pharaoh

    pharaoh IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    I voted to keep all three, but I think they all need balance changes.

    First, stamina should be tied to all actions that would be physically taxing, not just running. Regular attacks as well as most combat skills (Whirlwind, Frenzy, Zeal, etc) should cost stamina (some instead of mana, and some in addition).

    Second, identification should still be necessary to find out item properties, but you should be able to use unidentified items. I also think that the item's properties should apply whether or not you've identified it, but they could have multiple unique/set items of each base type so you were never sure what item it was unless you identified it, or it had some telltale visible effect.

    Lastly, durability needs a serious overhaul. I'd like to see a system where most items suffered penalties as they lost durability. For example, a weapon could suffer a damage or to-hit penalty (probably both). Items with charges might spontaneously lose charges (a damaged item wouldn't be as able to contain the magical energies), and armor would lose defense. This would make the self-repair and indestructible mods that much more valuable.

    On a related note, low-quality items shouldn't have adjectives like 'cracked' or 'damaged'. I've often thought if they were just damaged items, Charsi et al should be able to repair them.
     
  11. wakiki

    wakiki IncGamers Member

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    Re: BANANA, Kelo, and BLCD? (new energy 'crisis')

    I think that they could keep stamina, but they need to make it actually important later in the game, rather than annoying early on. They should add monsters that seriously drain your stamina whenever they hit.

    Even if they did remove stamina, they should keep the walking / running in, since there are strategic advantages to them.

    I also don't really have a problem with durability, and I think that adds depth to the game, with Ethereal items and items that regenerate durability -- two cool additions to the game.

    I voted to get rid of identifying though. Either that, or keep identifying in, but let people wear unidentified items like in Diablo I, and have some negative items effects. This could make for a cool tournament -- never allowing people to ID their items.

    To tell you the truth, I think the clunkiest part of D2 is the mercenaries. They have stupid A.I. and die often, or they can just be overpowered and win the game for you (esp. in Normal). Both of these things are kinda lame. It feels scarier and cooler to play alone anyway.
     
  12. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    Guys and gals. Please post first, poll afterwards. You're necro'ing Dredd's Forum and it wakes him up. He has to log in, to Moderate, it's upsetting for the poor guy.

    Thanks. :)
     
  13. scottasin

    scottasin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    I think ID should be kept, because like everyone says, its that suspense, and also when you're first starting the game, you heart skips a beat when you see those first gold and green items (or even yellow) and you thing to yourself, ****, I wonder what that does, and you pick it up, and the suspense is building because you still don't know, and you think "I bet this thing is incredible". Then you ID it and you say, damn, that thing isnt very good, but its neat anyways, might as well keep it.

    Durability is necessary if youre going to keep eth items in the game, whats eth without the heartbreaking breaking of your favorite items.
     
  14. lukin

    lukin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    I like them all, but one thing no one seems to have mentioned about identifying. If we got rid of identification, it would probably create an influx of good rares. As I play and rares drop, I rarely pick them up and identify them (with the exception of orbs, wands, ammy's, rings, and tiaras) I probably miss out on a lot of good stuff as a result. I think I ought to be punished for my laziness, or for sacrificing items for the sake of speed.

    It would be nice to balance out the stamina too, although I see the purpose of it in the early stages, it seems more of a counterbalance to rushers than anything else. One of the reasons it has less of an effect later on is that with the onset of nightmare and hell, we just can't breeze through areas.

    As far as repair, I like it too, mostly for the realism, and for the extra interaction with NPC's.

    I guess your enjoyment of these three functions depends on why you play the game in the first place. I play because I like the story, I get into my characters, and I like MF'ing. I don't rush for runes, but I do run areas like Pindle thousands of times. Even still, I am not very fast at it because I enjoy killing things and the story more than I enjoy finding things. I guess some people would rather get into a game and head straight for the hellforge and hopefully not run into anything or do anything other than race through. To each his own, I guess.
     
  15. Arkardo

    Arkardo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    I think ID should only have to be done for unique items, or not at all. Like others said, it could add suspension to having to ID a unique ring. Also, unique items have a background story, so it would make sense to have Cain tell you about it. The majority of other items are worthless anyway, so they should drop ID'd, if you ask me.
     
  16. Turbocannon

    Turbocannon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Stamina, identifying and durability systems

    Stamina and durability. The durability system is perfect, other than the fact that Zods are more common than intended and that no ethereal item should have self-repair. Stamina is good, though it would be better if you would be gradually slower with less stamina.
    The identify system - I don't know whether anyone played one of those roguelikes like ADOM, but in that game for example, the identifying system is great. You can equip anything unidentified, but for rings you won't know their effects, be they bad or good, or if the item is cursed (unremoveable) or not. This would, of course, require negative modifiers (positive light radius is a negative modifier alright, but it's not like I'd ditch something good if it had it) and a method of identifying other than the current one (even removing the scrolls from the shop would do tbh)
     

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