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ss or spirit for meteorb?

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Speedster, Jun 11, 2005.

  1. Speedster

    Speedster IncGamers Member

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    ss or spirit for meteorb?

    I have a 33 spirit monarch on my blizz-baller, but want to go back to the meteorb sorceress. Is stormshield still the way to go? Seems tough to give up the mana, skills, fcr.

    (Checked Sasja's guide for an update, but wasn't sure if it has been changed since the new runewords came out.)

    Thx!
     
  2. Miladys-Knight

    Miladys-Knight IncGamers Member

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    Stormy is still the way to go on the meteorb. Spirit seems to be custom made for the Blizz-baller and the 200 FCR FO/CB sorc.
     
  3. Speedster

    Speedster IncGamers Member

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    Thanks, M-K. I'm guessing that's because you need max blocking/damage reduction to get close and personal while using FO. So, the lousy blocking on Spirit rules it out.
     
  4. odormos

    odormos IncGamers Member

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    I'm not too sure about that. I guess it all depends on your play style. I am currently playing a meteorb sorc with a spirit and she is absolutely awesome. She has only died twice in hell and can even survive 2 - 3 direct hits from the almighty gloams. The trick is to use energy shield with the build, that helps tremendously. Right now my sorc is at level 86 with 1046 life and >600 mana. I have a staff on switch for casting es and my merc is equiped with an insight giving me insane mana regen. I can easily tank meph with her when doing mf runs.
    I say if you are going to be spending 158 str points anyway you should try them both and see which best fits you.
     
  5. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava IncGamers Member

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    My latest meterorb soc is using a 33 spirit mon. too. She has a SS on switch, but during her Hell rush games I found she rarely needs to use SS, though for teleporting in Hell act2 she'd better off with a SS if FCR is no issue.

    Roughly ~50 blocking with this monarch, she's never died.
     
  6. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    I haven't yet updated with the new runewords, sorry :eek:

    I haven't played that much lately, so I'm not even sure what I like the most, but I suspect I'm a blocking gal through and through ;)

    As has been said already, it really depends on your play style: Do you like to be in front, or are you comfortable staying in the background while pulverising enemies with your attacks? I hate not being able to see what happens, hence my love for Stormshield.

    If I wanted to go with Spirit, I'd say no dex and lots of vita. Otherwise, enjoy the immortality that comes with the Stormshield, and let others hang back :D

    No matter what, don't go with Energy Shield on a dual element build - ES without TK is suicide most of the time, and with a low energy build like the Meteorb it's really not recommendable.
     
  7. HaLoPhReAk

    HaLoPhReAk IncGamers Member

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    ....spirit seems the way to go; fcr, skills, resis's, 22 to vit. why would ss be better for a FO'r?
     
  8. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    For the same reason it's the prefered shield for most builds: 35%(!) pdr and a good block% (as well as some resistances).

    As I said, this is only really great for people who like to be able to survive a few hits - if you are used to running/teleporting around and are never in the front line, there's really no reason not to enjoy Spirit.
     
  9. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava IncGamers Member

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    SS is better if

    - you just prefer using it
    - you needs %physical damage reduction of up to 35%
    - you wish to block fastest with 75% rate without the assistance of another item
    - or for a particular reason: for example, when you teleport in the viper valley you may easily get yourself killed without very decent physical damage resistance (= high blocking + high defense + high damage reduce) + high FCR&FHR + big enough life orb.

    FO can't work against all monsters.



    My last rusher sorc on SCL is a full blocking build, and uses spirit most of the time for Hellforge rushes (in NM/Norm any nice shield should work). So you know, spirit is really my favorite. This sorc has only 75 base str, by the way! With gear, she has 156 to close to 200 str, 200+ dex, ~1.2K hit points (or 2K or more with BO/Oak), ~7K defense (her mana pool is irrelevant, as I choose to use Insight on her merc even when tanking Hell Diablo - though 1.5K mana pool is easily obtainable if there is a barb around). She rarely switches to SS. Although this is SCL, I have played as if this were still HCL I used to play on. So, this sorc has not died even once yet.


    Edit:
    PS - all my rusher chars are tanking builds, whether HC or SC, L or NL. The sorc above is no exception. she's a FO/Meteor/FB build, she uses her 33%, 141 def Spirit monarch nowadays while tanking act bosses up to Hell act4 and while rushing up to Hell act5 Anya quest (Hell baal/ancients are not part of her rush job). The only exception to her is when tele through viper valley to get the ammy - however, once lvl2 is reached, she switches to Spirit again before clearing the viper altar.
     
  10. Miladys-Knight

    Miladys-Knight IncGamers Member

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    Actually if you aren't magic finding you can use both one on main and one on switch and go back and forth as the need arises. They have the same strength requirements.
     
  11. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    through some extensive testing, pdr is not what it used to be. i have 45% now with shako/ss, max block, and the results are woefully below what i used to have with the old damage reduced build. monsters have a far higher chance of bypassing block/defense and they are often carrying elemental damage on top of it, not to mention that they are hitting harder than before. with 75% blocking, i am guessing that it is actually around 25% effectively, thanks to the monsters getting automatic hits. it also seems that supposedly elemental missiles (eg. bloodstars, but are carrying phys damage) have a lower chance of being blocked, or can't be blocked at all anymore.

    to put this into perspective, i used to go with 45% dam reduce, less than max resists, and max block with a stormshield and tank p8 cows and p8 baal's minions without a scratch.

    imho, go with ES and eld whistans and put the extra dex into nrg.
     
  12. sorcyone

    sorcyone Banned

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    For meteorb you really want a 35% Spirit shield so you can get the 105% cast breakpoint for fireball. This works beautifully with Tal and Magefist which gives you exactly 105% cast. I tried it and IMO not worth playing meteorb with less than 35% on a spirit Monarch.
     
  13. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    No it's not, you used to be able to get 75%, quite a different story. Still, 45% is 45%.
    The blocking and defense formulas are unchanged. If an attack is blocked, the whole attack, including possible elemental parts are blocked. However, the harder and faster hitting monsters are a fact, and together with the reduced pdr makes sure that no sorceress can waltz through Hell like the good ol' damage reduced sorc from 1.09.
    75% blocking is 75% blocking, but some attacks are unblockable. It does not depend on physical damage - some 100% elemental attacks are blockable. How many unblockable attacks you encounter depends on where you are, but you'll never find 50% more unblockable than blockable attacks anywhere (a number needed to make your figures match). The only really hurtful unblockable attack is the souls' lightning.
    Yup those days are over.
    Do not take ES with a dual element build using mana light attacks (imnsho ;))! You don't have the skillpoints and you shouldn't have the energy. A low TK ES with a mana low build = never turn your ES on, or one elemental attack will drain your mana bulb making you unable to teleport to safety, and the next is sure to kill you. Only ever use ES with a single element build, like lightning (where you need a bigger manapool anyway) or FO (where you really do have the extra skill points).
     
  14. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    I think it's a bug, where attacks that are categorized as elemental (but are carrying physical) bypass block, such as bloodstars. but, those that are categorized as physical but are carrying elemental (e.g. skeleton archers in a5) can be. i also think blizzard snuck in free hits, because there's no way blood lords should be able to hit you that often with max block.

    i'm sure there must be some leeway in the build, e.g. you don't need 20 tk if you have more mana than usual.
     
  15. tallon

    tallon IncGamers Member

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    Hmm, I'd highly suggest a 35% spirit.

    I remember the days of .09... I had a sorc I could go into a 8 player hell cow game, gather every cow around... and walk away from the computer for as long as needed w/o worring about dieing. Ya... SS was king back then

    But we didn't have Spirit back then ;). As someone else said, it helps you make that 105 fcr (which I have perfectly thx to it). This greatly helps fireball (which I use much more than meteor anyway).

    Save those dex points, at the most put 10 into dex so u can use hoto if u so choose (u'll get the other 2 u need from shako). Put as much as u can into vitality.

    I have a lvl 90 sorc... she can rush hell *WITH NO PROBLEM*. The only part that slows her down is travincal... which means less than blinding speed. lol. Even chaos sanctuary is not a problem. Still, SS would be usefull there just for the blocking chance... travincal would be much faster. But with that being the only "speedbump", I think the extra life and fcr and 2 skills from spirit are more than worth it.

    -tallon
     
  16. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    also build is very important. an orber or fballer would have fewer situations where block could even come into play, while a meteor or CB sorc would have much more.

    imho, if you are using meteor as your main build and are using yourself as a tank, then you should definitely go with ss/max block.
     
  17. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava IncGamers Member

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    my most recent meteor sorc went spirit + blocking (~50% with spirit) + high defence. by my experience, spirit is superior to use when tanking most bosses: duriel, meph, diablo, izual, tranvincal/durance lvl3 council members, etc. baal is different: my tanking sorcs almost always tele on top of baal, but he will either be killed that way or most likely will try to push me backward - making SS nearly a complete waste against him.

    while tanking ancients, i could feel the protection of SS on my sorc. yet again, PDR is something not really needed there for survival. A really nice proof to me is not from my sorc, but from my pally tonight. tonight, in a 3-ppl game, my lvl 76 pally with only 10% PDR from shako and 1.5K life (no BO at all) solo'ed Hell act4/5. On the arreat summit, he got one of the worst lags I've ever had when facing ancients: all of a sudden, 2 ancients and my merc stopped moving around - all froze up. the lag lasted about 30-40 sec and ended with 2 loud cries from the ancients: the ancients were killed during the lag, and my pally survived with about 1.4K life left. at about lvl 50, the same pally with 0% PDR and at most 1K life once entered a fully trapped NM cow portal (6 red bodies of other players dropped there) - he just stood in the portal and killed 40 or 50 cows who were trying to climb up on top of him....

    nowadays such things happen everyday. they all point to the same fact that PDR is no longer that important. Still, it's very nice to have 50% PDR for various reasons, but if you don't have or only have like 8% or 10%, chances are you don't really miss it either.
     
  18. LoVePlAyBoY

    LoVePlAyBoY IncGamers Member

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    depends on your playing style i think es pvm sorc would like spirit more

    and non-es using max block using ss would be better

    non block sorc should use spirit i suppose for more dodging abilties
     
  19. Fongalv

    Fongalv IncGamers Member

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    can someone tell me what are some sources of such insane amounts of str?
    I already pumped my base str to 100 and with shako, marrow/sandstorm, anni, im still like 30 short of the 156...granted the stats on my equip arent anywhere perfect but what are some other sources other than charms(I wouldnt wanna run around with inv full of str charms)

    I do have a str/mana ring somewhere but currently its a SoJ and a Manald...
     
  20. LoVePlAyBoY

    LoVePlAyBoY IncGamers Member

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    put a hel in your ss and str bug you ss on :p
     

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