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SPF Trading FAQ

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Borlag, Jan 28, 2004.

  1. Borlag

    Borlag IncGamers Member

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    SPF Trading FAQ

    SPF Trading FAQ


    Trust

    This is what we base all our trades on. Without trust there can be no trading, simple enough. If you don’t know someone, you can try to read the previous trading threads on the forums to see if that person has had many trades in the past, if people are trading often with that person. That generally means that the person is trusted.

    Do not simply look into a persons post count and think "gee, that guy has over 1000 posts, he must be well known player here, it must be safe to trade with him", this is simply not true. There are numerous different forums within the RPGForums.net, there are forums for Warcraft 3, which is a completely different game. There are forums for general chit chatting, also known as Off Topic discussion forums. There are simply so many ways that a person can do to get high post count, so that doesn’t tell you anything.

    Also, there is no telling if an perfectly fine and legit looking item is in reality a dupe. Anyone can trade their legitimately found Windforce away and still keep a copy of it on their own computer.

    Common courtesies on trading

    Posting a trade
    • When you post a tradelist, be sure to state if you're playing an older version of the game, a modded game (even if it's "just one to change rune colors"), or if you're playing in Hardcore mode.
    • If you’ve already posted a list of items to trade, or an single item, if someone shows interests in it, post the ATMA readouts about it if asked, or at the very least, PM the readouts to that person
    • Do not post your trade list multiple times in the trading thread, people who are interested in trading, will see it without spamming.
    • If you suspect that a person is trading suspicious items or items that are clearly hacked or duped, do not flame that person in the forums, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue.
    • Do not post fake item lists, not even as a joke. This can easily lead into flaming and spoil the whole thread with that nonsense.

    Actual trading
    • With the release of ATMA for Diablo II version 1.10, the standard procedure in trading is to use mule characters sent via E-mail that include the items traded for. Note that there is an exception to this, Macintosh users, who are currently without this program, trading with Mac users should happen in TCP/IP games unless the two of you can organize some other means of the item transaction
    • Another exception is really big trades, what if you trade so much items that it doesn’t fit into a mule character? Well the answer is stash files created by ATMA. These files can only be opened using ATMA and you can recognize them from the .d2x ending of the file name.
    • When you’ve succesfully traded items with someone, inform that person about receiving the item in good condition so that the person you are trading with, knows that you have received the item and can safely delete the mule.
    • Note that you also shouldn't delete the mule you've sent before the person you're trading with confirms that it's received in working condition.


    Possible problems while trading

    As we are all playing in Single Player games, where editors, dupes and hacks are a possibility, we all wish to avoid those, yet at times it feels impossible when the items don’t seem to be any different from the legitimate ones. Here’s some tips on recognizing an problematic item and avoiding such situations.

    General tips

    • First of all, trade only with people you trust, don’t go for that "I have a zod for trade, want Shako for it". If something feels like there’s something wrong, there’s high chances that there is.
    • Always remember that you can ask questions on the items origins, you are allowed to ask why someone offers so much for an item that’s clearly inferior to the one offered.
    • Note that this doesn’t always ring true, some people are Grail collectors (collecting every unique and set item in the game) and they might have been looking for some specific item for ages without no avail, thus they might be willing to pay alot for seemingly worthless item.
    • You can ask for the ATMA readouts, if you see something that’s clearly wrong, an Stone of Jordan unique ring with +2 to skills for example, or an Tyrael’s Might with ilvl as 1. Anything that’s clearly wrong, then don’t fall for a trade there. Inform the moderator to ask that person about the items origins.
    • Keep track on what you’ve traded with others, even if it’s just saving the E-mails about your trades and that way keeping a "trade history", this can later be used to track the origin of an item if something goes wrong later on, believe me, it can happen.
    • One method on detecting dupes is to check the item you’ve traded with someone with the Dupe Detector in ATMA, simply load the character or stash with the traded item and run it through the detector, if it doesn’t say anything being wrong, then it’s not in the common dupes list. The program checks this by looking at the items fingerprint and comparing it to the known dupes list.
    • What is the fingerprint? It's an code that's different for each and every item generated in Diablo II, if a person comes up to you saying that he has two SoJs for trade and he says something like "of course the print is the same, they have same stats" then he's lying. No item ever has the same fingerprint.
    • Last but not least, if you feel cheated on a trade, an item shows "bad" when you receive or it’s not what you were trading in the first place, give the other person a chance to reply to your PM about it, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue. If you can come up with a peaceful solution of canceling the trade that’s even better. But again, do not start accusing and flaming before knowing that other persons side for things.

    Trading runes

    With the trading of runes, you have a whole bunch of other things to worry about. Runes don’t have a "fingerprint", there is no way to tell if the rune you’re trading for is legit or not. This can be solved by two things really, the simplest being that you choose not to trade any high level runes at all, thus making the whole problem not exist for you. The other option is again to trade only with people you trust.

    The runes that are clearly hacks or created with an item editor:

    • Ones that state Standard as their version. Runes were introduced into the game in the Expansion pack.
    • Runes that have wrong lvl requirement, wrong stats or wrong graphics.

    Remember that the abovementioned isn’t a foolproof method on knowing whether something is real or not. There are numerous ways of passing fake runes as legit ones and not all of the methods involve editors, so again, please be careful in your trades

    Final words

    If you feel that there's something missing in this FAQ, please post about it either in this thread, a new thread about the FAQs or then PM me (Borlag) about it. Other than these advices and general guidelines here, remember to be fair on your trades, that way you'll have alot more pleasant trades in the future aswell
     
  2. Borlag

    Borlag IncGamers Member

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    SPF Trading FAQ


    Trust

    This is what we base all our trades on. Without trust there can be no trading, simple enough. If you don’t know someone, you can try to read the previous trading threads on the forums to see if that person has had many trades in the past, if people are trading often with that person. That generally means that the person is trusted.

    Do not simply look into a persons post count and think "gee, that guy has over 1000 posts, he must be well known player here, it must be safe to trade with him", this is simply not true. There are numerous different forums within the RPGForums.net, there are forums for Warcraft 3, which is a completely different game. There are forums for general chit chatting, also known as Off Topic discussion forums. There are simply so many ways that a person can do to get high post count, so that doesn’t tell you anything.

    Also, there is no telling if an perfectly fine and legit looking item is in reality a dupe. Anyone can trade their legitimately found Windforce away and still keep a copy of it on their own computer.

    Common courtesies on trading

    Posting a trade
    • When you post a tradelist, be sure to state if you're playing an older version of the game, a modded game (even if it's "just one to change rune colors"), or if you're playing in Hardcore mode.
    • If you’ve already posted a list of items to trade, or an single item, if someone shows interests in it, post the ATMA readouts about it if asked, or at the very least, PM the readouts to that person
    • Do not post your trade list multiple times in the trading thread, people who are interested in trading, will see it without spamming.
    • If you suspect that a person is trading suspicious items or items that are clearly hacked or duped, do not flame that person in the forums, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue.
    • Do not post fake item lists, not even as a joke. This can easily lead into flaming and spoil the whole thread with that nonsense.
    Actual trading
    • With the release of ATMA for Diablo II version 1.10, the standard procedure in trading is to use mule characters sent via E-mail that include the items traded for. Note that there is an exception to this, Macintosh users, who are currently without this program, trading with Mac users should happen in TCP/IP games unless the two of you can organize some other means of the item transaction
    • Another exception is really big trades, what if you trade so much items that it doesn’t fit into a mule character? Well the answer is stash files created by ATMA. These files can only be opened using ATMA and you can recognize them from the .d2x ending of the file name.
    • When you’ve succesfully traded items with someone, inform that person about receiving the item in good condition so that the person you are trading with, knows that you have received the item and can safely delete the mule.
    • Note that you also shouldn't delete the mule you've sent before the person you're trading with confirms that it's received in working condition.

    Possible problems while trading

    As we are all playing in Single Player games, where editors, dupes and hacks are a possibility, we all wish to avoid those, yet at times it feels impossible when the items don’t seem to be any different from the legitimate ones. Here’s some tips on recognizing an problematic item and avoiding such situations.


    A list of known common dupes

    These items appear in the 1.10 Beta Item Warehouse and they are all dupes, there's no way that a person could have legitimate items with these fingerprints.

    Please note that this is not an complete list of every dupe, just the ones that were on the item warehouse, anything can be duped, so again, use caution and common sense in your trades.


    General tips
    • First of all, trade only with people you trust, don’t go for that "I have a zod for trade, want Shako for it". If something feels like there’s something wrong, there’s high chances that there is.
    • Always remember that you can ask questions on the items origins, you are allowed to ask why someone offers so much for an item that’s clearly inferior to the one offered.
    • Note that this doesn’t always ring true, some people are Grail collectors (collecting every unique and set item in the game) and they might have been looking for some specific item for ages without no avail, thus they might be willing to pay alot for seemingly worthless item.
    • You can ask for the ATMA readouts, if you see something that’s clearly wrong, an Stone of Jordan unique ring with +2 to skills for example, or an Tyrael’s Might with ilvl as 1. Anything that’s clearly wrong, then don’t fall for a trade there. Inform the moderator to ask that person about the items origins.
    • Keep track on what you’ve traded with others, even if it’s just saving the E-mails about your trades and that way keeping a "trade history", this can later be used to track the origin of an item if something goes wrong later on, believe me, it can happen.
    • One method on detecting dupes is to check the item you’ve traded with someone with the Dupe Detector in ATMA, simply load the character or stash with the traded item and run it through the detector, if it doesn’t say anything being wrong, then it’s not in the common dupes list. The program checks this by looking at the items fingerprint and comparing it to the known dupes list.
    • What is the fingerprint? It's an code that's different for each and every item generated in Diablo II, if a person comes up to you saying that he has two SoJs for trade and he says something like "of course the print is the same, they have same stats" then he's lying. No item ever has the same fingerprint.
    • Last but not least, if you feel cheated on a trade, an item shows "bad" when you receive or it’s not what you were trading in the first place, give the other person a chance to reply to your PM about it, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue. If you can come up with a peaceful solution of canceling the trade that’s even better. But again, do not start accusing and flaming before knowing that other persons side for things.
    Trading runes

    With the trading of runes, you have a whole bunch of other things to worry about. Runes don’t have a "fingerprint", there is no way to tell if the rune you’re trading for is legit or not. This can be solved by two things really, the simplest being that you choose not to trade any high level runes at all, thus making the whole problem not exist for you. The other option is again to trade only with people you trust.

    The runes that are clearly hacks or created with an item editor:
    • Ones that state Standard as their version. Runes were introduced into the game in the Expansion pack.
    • Runes that have wrong lvl requirement, wrong stats or wrong graphics.
    Remember that the abovementioned isn’t a foolproof method on knowing whether something is real or not. There are numerous ways of passing fake runes as legit ones and not all of the methods involve editors, so again, please be careful in your trades

    Final words

    If you feel that there's something missing in this FAQ, please post about it either in this thread, a new thread about the FAQs or then PM me (Borlag) about it. Other than these advices and general guidelines here, remember to be fair on your trades, that way you'll have alot more pleasant trades in the future aswell.

    Thanks for Randall on the dupe database information :)
     
  3. Borlag

    Borlag IncGamers Member

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    SPF Trading FAQ


    Trust

    This is what we base all our trades on. Without trust there can be no trading, simple enough. If you don’t know someone, you can try to read the previous trading threads on the forums to see if that person has had many trades in the past, if people are trading often with that person. That generally means that the person is trusted.

    Do not simply look into a persons post count and think "gee, that guy has over 1000 posts, he must be well known player here, it must be safe to trade with him", this is simply not true. There are numerous different forums within the RPGForums.net, there are forums for Warcraft 3, which is a completely different game. There are forums for general chit chatting, also known as Off Topic discussion forums. There are simply so many ways that a person can do to get high post count, so that doesn’t tell you anything.

    Also, there is no telling if an perfectly fine and legit looking item is in reality a dupe. Anyone can trade their legitimately found Windforce away and still keep a copy of it on their own computer.

    Common courtesies on trading

    Posting a trade
    • When you post a tradelist, be sure to state if you're playing an older version of the game, a modded game (even if it's "just one to change rune colors"), or if you're playing in Hardcore mode.
    • If you’ve already posted a list of items to trade, or an single item, if someone shows interests in it, post the ATMA readouts about it if asked, or at the very least, PM the readouts to that person
    • Do not post your trade list multiple times in the trading thread, people who are interested in trading, will see it without spamming.
    • If you suspect that a person is trading suspicious items or items that are clearly hacked or duped, do not flame that person in the forums, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue.
    • Do not post fake item lists, not even as a joke. This can easily lead into flaming and spoil the whole thread with that nonsense.
    • Also if trading Gheed's Grand Charm, post if you have used the "hot-muling" process.
    Actual trading
    • With the release of ATMA for Diablo II version 1.10, the standard procedure in trading is to use mule characters sent via E-mail that include the items traded for. Note that there is an exception to this, Macintosh users, who are currently without this program, trading with Mac users should happen in TCP/IP games unless the two of you can organize some other means of the item transaction
    • Another exception is really big trades, what if you trade so much items that it doesn’t fit into a mule character? Well the answer is stash files created by ATMA. These files can only be opened using ATMA and you can recognize them from the .d2x ending of the file name.
    • When you’ve succesfully traded items with someone, inform that person about receiving the item in good condition so that the person you are trading with, knows that you have received the item and can safely delete the mule.
    • Note that you also shouldn't delete the mule you've sent before the person you're trading with confirms that it's received in working condition.

    Possible problems while trading

    As we are all playing in Single Player games, where editors, dupes and hacks are a possibility, we all wish to avoid those, yet at times it feels impossible when the items don’t seem to be any different from the legitimate ones. Here’s some tips on recognizing an problematic item and avoiding such situations.


    A list of known common dupes

    These items appear in the 1.10 Beta Item Warehouse and they are all dupes, there's no way that a person could have legitimate items with these fingerprints.

    Please note that this is not an complete list of every dupe, just the ones that were on the item warehouse, anything can be duped, so again, use caution and common sense in your trades.


    General tips
    • First of all, trade only with people you trust, don’t go for that "I have a zod for trade, want Shako for it". If something feels like there’s something wrong, there’s high chances that there is.
    • Always remember that you can ask questions on the items origins, you are allowed to ask why someone offers so much for an item that’s clearly inferior to the one offered.
    • Note that this doesn’t always ring true, some people are Grail collectors (collecting every unique and set item in the game) and they might have been looking for some specific item for ages without no avail, thus they might be willing to pay alot for seemingly worthless item.
    • You can ask for the ATMA readouts, if you see something that’s clearly wrong, an Stone of Jordan unique ring with +2 to skills for example, or an Tyrael’s Might with ilvl as 1. Anything that’s clearly wrong, then don’t fall for a trade there. Inform the moderator to ask that person about the items origins.
    • Keep track on what you’ve traded with others, even if it’s just saving the E-mails about your trades and that way keeping a "trade history", this can later be used to track the origin of an item if something goes wrong later on, believe me, it can happen.
    • What is the fingerprint? It's an code that's different for each and every item generated in Diablo II, if a person comes up to you saying that he has two SoJs for trade and he says something like "of course the print is the same, they have same stats" then he's lying. No item ever has the same fingerprint.
    • Last but not least, if you feel cheated on a trade, an item shows "bad" when you receive or it’s not what you were trading in the first place, give the other person a chance to reply to your PM about it, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue. If you can come up with a peaceful solution of canceling the trade that’s even better. But again, do not start accusing and flaming before knowing that other persons side for things.
    Trading runes

    With the trading of runes, you have a whole bunch of other things to worry about. Runes don’t have a "fingerprint", there is no way to tell if the rune you’re trading for is legit or not. This can be solved by two things really, the simplest being that you choose not to trade any high level runes at all, thus making the whole problem not exist for you. The other option is again to trade only with people you trust.

    The runes that are clearly hacks or created with an item editor:
    • Ones that state Standard as their version. Runes were introduced into the game in the Expansion pack.
    • Runes that have wrong lvl requirement, wrong stats or wrong graphics.
    Remember that the abovementioned isn’t a foolproof method on knowing whether something is real or not. There are numerous ways of passing fake runes as legit ones and not all of the methods involve editors, so again, please be careful in your trades

    Note that alot of members in the SPF have chosen not to trade any high level runes at all due to the fact that fake ones cannot be detected.

    Examples of Fingerprints

    Fingerprints can be used to detect duped items, as no two items have the same fingerprint. Although given that there are only 10 characters in the fingerprint and those can range between 0 and 9 and a to f, it is however limited, so in theory it is possible that two items have the same print. However it's basically just as likely to find 10 Zods in one game as it is to find two items with exactly same fingerprints and stats. So, as a rule of thumb, those are always to be considered dupes.

    Also there are few different "fingerprint styles", here are examples of 1.10, 1.10a, 1.10b (alpha and beta phase) and classic version fingerprints, also showing the GUID prints:

    This is an example of Athena's Wrath found in 1.10 final patch.

    Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
    Fingerprint: 0x5e10a268

    This is an example of Bartuc's Cut-Throat found in 1.10 alpha patch.

    Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
    Fingerprint: 0x2579ed59
    GUID: 0xffffffff 0xdeadbeef 0x0

    This is an example of Berserker's Headgear found in 1.10 beta patch.

    Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
    Item Level: 87
    Fingerprint: 0xb7e2e4e5
    GUID: 0x1561288 0x40a8e000 0x0

    Here's an example of a rare gothic bow found in classic:
    Item Version: Classic
    Fingerprint: 0x8aa3ee96

    Notice that the 1.10 final has only the regular fingerprint showing, this is the same with older items found in any version. 1.10alpha showd the GUID also but with the deadbeef print, this is perfectly legit item so don't be fooled to think it's a hack. 1.10 beta had a "proper" GUID along with the fingerprint.



    Final words

    If you feel that there's something missing in this FAQ, please post about it either in this thread, a new thread about the FAQs or then PM me (Borlag) about it. Other than these advices and general guidelines here, remember to be fair on your trades, that way you'll have alot more pleasant trades in the future aswell.

    Thanks for Randall on the dupe database information :)
     
  4. pesot

    pesot IncGamers Member

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    nice job. but i'm pretty sure atma just compare files in your disk with the dupe detector. i don't think atma has a "built-in know dupe database". of course i could be wrong. :D
     
  5. Borlag

    Borlag IncGamers Member

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    duh, I knew there was still errors somewhere...that was the repost of the 1st version of the guide that I edited, back then there was talking that Hakai would add some sort of common dupe list to ATMA to be used with the detector...editing that bit away now...
     
  6. Uzziah

    Uzziah IncGamers Member

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    ATMA AFAIK only compares item fingerprints of files that you have selected to see if any match it then only shows you the matching fingerprints. I think it will shw a dupe even if the items are different and have the same fingerprint, IE a belt and a shortsword come up with the exact same fingerprint it will bring those items to your attention.

    The Item database I thought only provided the items that were known dupes and gave their information. Had those items been setup in a stash the dupe detector in ATMA could compare that stash with the items in your own stash to detect dupes. Unless updated, since I got ATMA, ATMA doesn't have that function AFAIK.

    nice guide :thumbsup:

    I think the server is acting really wierd since there is 3 copies of it.
     
  7. Borlag

    Borlag IncGamers Member

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    LOL it's not the server, this guide has been there for almost a year now, I just updated it a bit since I noticed I had reposted the 1st draft of it and not the final. That was lost in one of the forum crashes, but I believe it now has almost everything it used to have, except maybe few mistakes still remain, such as that ATMA dupedetector one (which I just removed).
     
  8. vajurewi

    vajurewi IncGamers Member

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    People should subject title their email re trades or with trade items as "SPF trade from XXX".

    Everyone doesnt know everyone else's email address and certain email providers will spam out the desired email w/o you're ever knowing it.

    Or, as this happened a couple of months ago, a person may be expecting an email with an attachment, and click on what turns out to be spam or virus-laden junk - since there was no subject heading
     
  9. pesot

    pesot IncGamers Member

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    have to agree with that. nearly deleted a trade a few weeks back because it doesn't have a title :(. put it in the good gesture part :D .
     
  10. moo-cow

    moo-cow IncGamers Member

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  11. Borlag

    Borlag IncGamers Member

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    That, along with every other item, is available on that now infamous lvl99 guys +all items pack, that list you see is the list of those items.
     
  12. Kremtok

    Kremtok IncGamers Member

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    Good work putting this together. Expect to hear more about the new SPF trading policy sometime in the very near future.
     
  13. Hakai_no_Tenshi

    Hakai_no_Tenshi IncGamers Member

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    Shivan was working on a database that would have been useful for something like this. I have no idea how far he got and haven't heard from him in a while. :ponder:

    --T
     
  14. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    How many people need to dupe isenhearts case??? just to a WSK run or 2 and you'll probably find 1. not to mention there useless for 90% of build types.
     
  15. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    Thanks Borlag :thumbsup:

    @vajurewi & pesot - that issue was discussed when the FAQ was written, and again recently. The majority didn't seem to think this should be a requirement.

    @moo-cow & farting_bob - the thread is about trading. Why the need to post OT into a serious thread? Please refrain.
     

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