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Spell combinations

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Wirt, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. Wirt

    Wirt Diabloii.Net Member

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    Spell combinations

    I am playing Dragon Age: Origins now, and really like the concept of spell combinations.
    An example: a mage casts 'grease', so an area becomes greased so enemies (and friends, DA:O has friendly fire) will fall on the ground. Then if some fire spell is cast on that area, the grease catches the flames and a fire erupts giving firedamage to the area.
    Other example: a frozen or pertified enemy can be instantly shattered by some spells.

    The concept is very good in terms of game tactics, visuals and sheer fun.

    I would love to see such possible combinations in DIII. Endless possibilities:
    Chance to shatter frozen enemies but only if hit by blunt weapons.
    Hitting a burning enemy gives a temporarily fire damage buff to the weapon.
    Enemies that have their armor lowered by some spell have a chance to be penetrated when shot with arrows, letting the arrow fly to another enemy.
    Casting an entaglement AoE spell on multiple enemies makes some DoT's like poison or fire spread over all entangled enemies.

    Sounds like fun. Any thoughts?

    Wirt
     
  2. phool

    phool Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    Well inter-skill synergy already exists of course, Diablo is just less in-your-face about it. Ice blast+fire wall, decoy+lightning fury, tiger strike+dragon tail, war cry+berzerk (aka movement control+fixed dot, crowd control+aoe, etc) - these are the real hidden synergies of Diablo.

    Personally I hope it stays that way - part of the fun of a game like Diablo is finding your own effective skill comboes, I wouldn't like everything handed to me on a plate while simultaneously making effective build structures more narrow rigid - the main complaint people have with 1.10+'s explicit synergies system, in fact.

    Of the examples I gave I'd say ts+dtail is both the most similar to what you're suggesting and perhaps the least interesting. A 2 skill chain (A-B-B-B-repeat) is a poor nonsolution to the the problem of single skill spam that pervades poorly balanced and shallow games and this is often where such an innovation is going to lead. Instead of the skills being useful in their own right, one becomes a mere pre-requisite for optimal use of the other. No real gameplay depth has been added (unless the actual execution of the chain adds difficulty beyond switching skills).
     
  3. Kiroptus

    Kiroptus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    There is already situations like this:

    The Wizard's time dome + teleport (with strike rune) = Deflect all ranged attacks inside the dome.

    There was also the concept of the fire burning mongrels with Mongrels + Fire Skull, it was removed but it shows that the concept is in, they are just tunning it right.
     
  4. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    Barbarians have it too. Charge into cleave/bash. The Monk is all about combos. I'm happy w/ what I've seen so far in terms of spell combos and such.
     
  5. Dyuu

    Dyuu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    OT: I'm not questioning that you're right about this, but where did they say that they removed this? Curious, as I haven't heard of that change.

    Back on topic: Yes. These are good-stuff mechanics, at least the ones involving a difference in how the enemies die. In D2, it was very enjoyable to shatter frozen enemies as a variation from just having them fall over, and as I can already see a number of mechanics like this in D3, it's just great. (Think the barb crushed a frozen enemy if I'm not mistaken, the witch doctors' locust swarm leaving only the bones behind, exploding palm leaving almost nothing but a pool of blood)

    Additions could be that the corpses are left half-charred when killed with fire, higher chance of severing limbs when they're poisoned (or the like), slight twitches from death by lightning, etc.


     
  6. razen

    razen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    Your idea kicks so much bee-hind!!!

    Whenever I watch an adverture anime, I always get the same feel, so I totally understand where you getting at.

    Ice Spell from Mage + Pierce from Rangers = shatter effect
    Sand Mist (a defensive skill) + fire ball (an offensive skill) = explosion
    that's not all! let's be super creative about it!

    lightening + holy bolt = fanaticism effect
    meditation + bone wall = sanctuary

    possibility is endless!

    golem + fireball = suicide bomber
    ice blast + water wall = ice wall (duh)
    chilling armor + warmth = heal burn wound
    sanctuary + raise skeleton = raise angel

    Love the idea! (too bad it's too creative for blizzard, so I say possibility of implementing = 0)
     
  7. BatSoup

    BatSoup Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    Should be somewhere in the archives. They took it out because the WD was using the plague of insects and firebats (?) spells offensively, not just for buffing mongrels. accidentally casting one onto a mongrel with the other changed the buffs up and became frustrating to their playtesters.


     
  8. Sakris

    Sakris Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    Great stuff, if maybe a little hard to balance.
     
  9. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    I really like the suggestions of the OP, the ways skills could empower each other would open up lots of interesting possiblities and options for any party to feel like they are really playing a co-op game .... balancing things indeed will require a more time with features like this but it will indeed make the co-op game way more interesting.
     
  10. Funkopotamus

    Funkopotamus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    I would be happy with some minor effects like lighting people on fire or making them slip on ice or something but more like a "hey, look at that" kind of thing, not as something to form a strategy around. I wouldn't want Diablo to turn into X-Men Legends or Marvel Ultimate Alliance, though it worked well in those games.
     
  11. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    I wouldn't mind them sticking some debuff/damage multiplier combos up there, maybe w/ skill runes. Example: static bolt, w/ a rune, does less damage, but any mob it hits now has an extra chance of being critically hit by electrocute. So it changes up your combo, open w/ some static bolts, then blast w/ electrocute. This is rune dependent, so maybe not everyone builds this way. Maybe the witch doctor adds a rune that causes his toads to coat enemies and the ground w/ oil and poison, so that a skull of flame now lights everything on fire and does extra burning damage.

    TLDR: I think combos should come from runes, which would up the build variety while strengthening the item/trading game.
     
  12. Chorkstain

    Chorkstain Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    :scratchchin:

    Agreed.

    Edit: Actually I'd like to add to that.

    Spell combinations as described in the original post will be used the same way time and time again. 'Natural' spell combinations could be found for different situations, especially with the diversity of monster skills and tactics now in the game.

    So two spells might never be used together... at least until you come up against a particular mob. And then it's up to the player to recognize the potential for a never before used tactic.

    But ready made combinations... it's just stacking arbitrarily chosen skills together to maximise power. Which is OK, but... it's kind of like making a sandwich with Peanut Butter, Jam, Nutella and Honey all together spread really thick. Not sure about the analogy there, but that sandwich isn't that cool. It's really sweet but it's kind of sickly.


     
  13. Srikandi

    Srikandi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Spell combinations

    I think most posters here are missing the main point of DA:O's system. It's not about spell combos from a single class, although the system does allow for that... it's mostly about combinations of skills from different classes. The mage freezes and the tank shatters the frozen enemy, for instance. That is what makes it interesting. Of course DA is SP party-based game, so one player is controlling em all, but using this type of combination in a true multiplayer game should be even more interesting.

    I think it's a very neat idea, and a good way to reward coordinated party play. On the other hand, as a mostly SP person myself, I'd hardly ever get a chance to play with it. Unless, of course, we have actually useful mercs... hmmm! My mage merc freezes some mobs and I can shatter em if my arrows crit, for instance -- I would enjoy that :)
     

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