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Spearazon Discussion

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by alexmatusiak, Mar 31, 2004.

  1. alexmatusiak

    alexmatusiak IncGamers Member

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    Spearazon Discussion

    Hey Posters,

    I searched the forums and noticed there really isn't any guides or threads about spearazons that go in to any detailed discussion.

    Well I'm starting one myself and am at level 12 and yet, I haven't spent a single skill point. The reason; I haven't made a spearzon in literally YEARS ... like many people i went on a hiatus during 1.09 for about a year or so and have started playing again in 1.10.

    So I now i sit with an ethereal bone helm and a spear socketed with two flawed rubies and a sapphire (found in the level 'garbage' left by level 70 normal cowers) and scratch my head as what to do.

    THOUGHTS:

    Well there are many possible routes for a Spearzon. Its simple to say, "Max out LS and its synergies" and use Jab as backup attack against LI monsters. But doesn't that just sound boring?

    I'm thinking of maxing out LS and its two column synergies and saving the extra points (maybe working on a final synergy like LBolt in the late late stages of hell). Next, I was thinking of making it a hybrid with a bow and a maxed out bow skill (thinking strafe or multishot) on switch to take care of LI packs.

    Next are the passives. With a hybrid, I really can't find a way to squeeze in a Valk ... yes, its true. But seeing as how I'm really a spear-weilding valk myself, I guess its okay?

    So this is my level 90 skill set-up ..

    Power Strike, Charged Strike, Lightning Strike - 20pts each (60 total .. duh)
    Jab - 1pt
    Poison Jav, Lightning Bolt - 1pt each
    D/A/E - 5/3/5pts
    Critical Strike - 5pts
    Penetrate - 5pts

    Magic Arrow - 1pt
    MultiShot - 15pts

    Those astute enough will realize that nothing here really shines through as being a high damage skill. But this is what I've thought of so far.

    Then there are other ideas ... what about Maxing out FEND or JAB and not even touching the lighting??

    This would allow for a valk and really pumping the passives (though we all the know the diminishing returns). This would seem like a good idea although might need great gear ... and lord knows I won't have a BotD spear anytime soon if EVER.

    THE QUESTIONS:

    Would it be better to forget the bow switch and put those points in to Jab and/or my synergies?

    Is Jab really more effective than Fend? Is Fend-lock really still an issue?

    What kind of merc (other than the typical HF blah blah merc who we all know works with 90% of the builds out there)?

    Finally ...

    Where are all the spearazons out there?!?! I play on USWest ladder and I'm amazed that I'm usually the only spearazon in the chats. We're all bored of seeing the big frenzy barbs, the level 89 sorcs and such ... or at least, I'm bored and not at all impressed. I'm sure there are more people like me out there who use spearzons ...

    Aren't there? :scratch:

    Cheers!

    Alex
     
  2. Omikron8

    Omikron8 IncGamers Member

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    I'll put it to you this way. Blizzard butchered the spearazon's best combat skill in the 1.10 patch, that being FEND. In 1.09 fend was uninterruptable so you could be dodging in combat or getting hit but you would still be fending constantly, doing good damage. Now fend is constantly interrupted by your passives (dodge, avoid, evade) and if you are interrupted you have to start your fend cycle again. The same thing goes for hit recovery animations or blocking and these factors combined mean that anything more than 2 or 3 enemies in your face will leave you whiffing your spear at air because you can't complete your attack. This will quickly result in your death since you can't leech if you can't hit.

    You can go with the lightning+synergies route with a spearazon but i would just use a javazon for these purposes for the defensive purposes of a shield, unless you purposely want to cripple yourself in such a build with a spear. As for Jab it only hits one target leaving other monsters to beat you to death in melee combat (no shield).

    Sorry to burst your bubble but in my opinion blizzard just wrecked the spearazon in 1.10, a sub-class that was seldom played to begin with in 1.09.
     
  3. alexmatusiak

    alexmatusiak IncGamers Member

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    Hey there's no bubble to burst ... I wouldn't dare make the mistake of assuming a spearazon is among the 'uber' builds.

    Its too bad about fend, of course. I assume you can avoid the passive interrupts by simply NOT putting any points in to those passives, of course ... but then I can see dying quite easily.
     
  4. Iroqouiz

    Iroqouiz IncGamers Member

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    So what am I supposed to do with my Lycander's Flank? Nothing?
     
  5. himeji

    himeji IncGamers Member

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    You"ll have at least 1 point in the d/a/e skills as prereq for valk iirc. I have speary in spf hc hell act1, doing fine, but untweaked so not doing much dmg by herself. For a challenge, max fend without points in the li skills, or even funnier, dont use spear but a 2-handed sword.
     
  6. alexmatusiak

    alexmatusiak IncGamers Member

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    We're hoping to figure out just what to do with your wonderful spear in this thread ... lol.

    And I'm pretty positive you can't use fend with a sword ... if you wanted to use a sword you'd be making a passive zon, i assume.
     
  7. himeji

    himeji IncGamers Member

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    Yes, tankazon only uses skills from the passive/magic tab. My untwinked sword blonde already died to lister in normal, otherwise I would have built her with 20 Penetrate, 17 Valk, 20 in DAE, 8+ CS, rest in IS and Decoy.
     
  8. Nidlav

    Nidlav IncGamers Member

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    It seems to me that if you’re going to make a SPEARazon you should focus on the strengths of the spear instead of just using a spear in place of a better suited weapon for your selected skills. What I mean is that pretty much all the lightening skills are better suited for a Javelin. The strength of the spear is high physical damage. Charged Strike and Lightening Strike do not take the physical damage of the weapon used into account. So using a faster javelin with a shield is much better for these skills…(and safer)…especially if they’re primary skills. And thus…you’re no longer talking about a Spearazon.

    This, combined with the Fend bug, is essentially why so few people bother with a Spearazon build. There is little to no incentive to focus a build around the spear. But that won’t prevent us from trying! :] What is left is to focus in one or more of the three physical damage spear skills: Jab, Impale & Fend.

    Jab
    Pros: Multiple hits per attack, decent AR bonus, low mana cost.
    Cons: Low Damage bonus, single target attack.

    Impale
    Pros: HUGE Damage & AR mods and very low, fixed man cost.
    Cons: VERY slow and durability loss.

    Fend
    Pros: Decent Damage & AR mods, multiple attacks, low fixed mana cost.
    Cons: Bugged.

    It is understood that the Fend bug is related to the D/A/E line of skills. If D/A/E triggers while Fending you will continue to Fend but miss all hits after you D/A/E. My question is, does this bug only happen with D/A/E? Or does it also happen if you are hit, or interrupted, while attacking? If you’re hit while Fending, do you stop your Fend? Or do you continue to Fend but are still able to hit. If it is only D/A/E that triggers the Fend bug…then I think Fend is still a viable option for a Spearazon build. The downside is that you can’t have a Valk (If you want to completely rule out the Fend bug) but you CAN have a good Decoy.

    If you decide to focus on Jab, then you can get a Valk. If you focus on Fend then you go for Decoy and no D/A/E or Valk. I’ve never really explored Impale, but from what I’ve read it takes an awful lot of IAS to make it useful. With the mods I think you’d need for a spearazon I don’t think you’ll have the slots for that much IAS. I’m sure there is a way to go for an Impale build though. Critical Strike and Penetrate would get the rest of the points after your main physical attack skill, lightening backup skill + synergy and decoy. Inner Sight and Slow Missiles would be very useful even with just 1 point as long as you had some +skills.

    Then there is the issue of choosing a secondary, non-physical attack. You could go with a hybrid build and choose a bow skill, but I’m going to stick with the spear theme. I’d suggest using Charged Strike with one synergy (say Power Strike for efficiency with points) for this alt attack. Since it’s just for PIs and maybe bosses, you can get away with using a spear and not having to switch over to a Javelin and shield…although you could if you wanted to. Also, if you’re looking for a third source of damage while staying with a spear your only real option is to use a Stoneraven which does 101-187 magic damage.

    Some equipment suggestions would be to get max DR%, high defense and a LOT of Life Leech. I’d choose an Um’ed Shaftstop over any other armor. For a helm go with a Crown of Ages, Vampire Gaze or Harlequins Crest. String of Ears for the belt. There are a fair number of Unique spears to choose from. BotD would be good as well. Gloves, rings, amulet and boots would focus on resistances, Crushing Blow, Deadly Strike and LL I’d think.

    For a merc I’d suggest a Defiance merc with either a Reaper’s Toll or a Doom runeword polearm.

    I’ve been thinking of trying a build like this but haven’t gotten around to it. It just seems to me that unless you go for at least 1 of the 3 physical damage skills as your primary attack there is no reason to use a spear at all. *shrug*

    My 2 cents :]

    nid
     
  9. Iroqouiz

    Iroqouiz IncGamers Member

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    Did you reply to me?

    Anyway, just feels kinda bad that I really can't do nothing with the spear, since it's really cool. :)
     
  10. AFBrat

    AFBrat IncGamers Member

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    Spearazon is perfectly viable in 1.10, or even using a Thunderstrike to use Charged Strike or Lightning Strike, thats what I did with no problems. I used Viperfork and Stoneraven quite often also. Great for running The Pits, use a Defiance merc and have a high Defense armor like a Stone runeword elite runeword (use the clay golem charges also if you make Stone), loved it.
     
  11. Omikron8

    Omikron8 IncGamers Member

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    Fend is still salvageable but it requires some careful building and a careful playing style. Max out your valk and always have it occupying the biggest monster packs and make sure your merc is doing the same. A spear has a long range so inch your way towards the packs behind your "tanks" (use decoy if necessary) and poke away. To do this more effectively use a relatively fast weapon such as shael'ed arloc's needle (Unique hyperion spear) as it also has ignore target's defense and huge +skills (up to +4). Lycander's Flank is simply too slow for any fending or jabbing in 1.10. I should listen to my own advice but i always preferred the 1.09 mode of playing the spearazon, ie. charge in with massive leech and poke away uninterrupted doing massive damage. This cautious style isn't for me, especially for a weak build to begin with.

    Edit - As for the questions about how fend is interrupted. If you have to recover in ANY way whether it be passives, hit recovery, or blocking your fend WILL miss for the rest of the hits of the cycle regardless of how good yoru AR is. Think of it as the way that zeal was in the beta. This is most noticeable with passives since they happen at around 12 fps and there is no way to speed this up.
     
  12. sunbearie

    sunbearie IncGamers Member

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    Omikron8 said it just just right. You need to adapt to the way fend works now. So the rule of thumb is, never get surrounded! You have 3 tanks (decoy, valk, merc), always use your long stick to whack monsters from BEHIND your tanks :lol:

    I think an upgraded lycander's flank isn't that bad though you work more to compensate for the lack of speed.
     
  13. Iroqouiz

    Iroqouiz IncGamers Member

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    Omikron8: Lycander's Flank also has +skills, about 4 total I think. Sure, it may be slow, but can't you put a Shael into it?

    sunbearie: I was thinking the same thing. With 3 people in front of me it would be strange if I didn't even have a chance. I'm gonna try, that's for sure. :)
     
  14. Omikron8

    Omikron8 IncGamers Member

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    Even with a shael, lycander's flank is horribly slow. Keep in mind that is a base +20 speed weapon while something like arloc's needle is a base -10 weapon. THe lower the base speed, the easier it is to speed the weapon up with extra IAS.
     
  15. memememe173

    memememe173 IncGamers Member

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    Iron Golem
     
  16. Iroqouiz

    Iroqouiz IncGamers Member

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    Iron Golem?
     
  17. memememe173

    memememe173 IncGamers Member

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    Iron Golem!
     
  18. Armor_Biff

    Armor_Biff IncGamers Member

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    If you wanna make an iron golem out of it because of the high damage then forget that. Physical damage is only added from one-handed weapons when making iron golems.
     
  19. Iroqouiz

    Iroqouiz IncGamers Member

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    Making Iron Golems? :confused: :eek:

    Do you mean the Necromancer skill?
     
  20. Unmoved

    Unmoved IncGamers Member

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    metalgrid has iron golem charges I think

    I have one somewhere but it blows so hard that I never even considered using it.
     

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