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SP vs. ladder

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Neilski, Jun 14, 2008.

  1. Neilski

    Neilski IncGamers Member

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    SP vs. ladder

    Embarrassingly dumb question perhaps, but I've been prompted to seriously reconsider SP given the impending ladder reset.

    However, I'm a bit confused about what works on SP and what is only on ladder.

    I had thought that lots of the coolest runewords (etc.) were a ladder-only thing, but then I recently read something (I think on battle.net actually) which referred to a bunch of runewords as being for single-player and ladder only... hence my confusion.

    So, is SP more or less the same as ladder, or are there lots of "cool" things which only work on ladder?

    (God knows I might even keep working on my lvl 74ish Paladin when he becomes NL.)

    thanks
    Neil
     
  2. Neksja

    Neksja IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Stickies??

    edit.

    sorry for rude post, I'm too tired to explain anything at the moment :(
     
  3. Neilski

    Neilski IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Sorry for stupid post. Somehow I failed to notice the stickies :-(


     
  4. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Sorry for not having them flashing.

    ^^ Thy humour, not actually trying to be rude. :D

    Welcome to the SPF! :wave:

    (Let me know what you think of them; they're due for a nuke.)
     
  5. Eric Xanthu

    Eric Xanthu IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Drop the Bnet-loser-date and hang out with the cool kids. We're nice, too.

    (welcome)
     
  6. Grumpy Old Wizard

    Grumpy Old Wizard IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    If you download the Rune Word Mod you can make all of the rune words in single player. Of course you have to actually find/cube the runes or trade with other single players for them. If you check the trade forums you'll see one for single player if you are interested in trading. Some folks don't like using any mods though so let potential trade partners know what mods you use.

    I recommednd you get ATMA, a muling program for single player. That will let you trade items between your characters without having to go on open battlenet.

    While I usually flirt with ladder some I prefer single play. Once you get into the single player game you'll probably be hooked on it too. :)



     
  7. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Also, I'll list some of my favourite advantages of SP that aren't in that link, since that seems to tie in well with "why would I switch to SP":

    - ATMA (or GoMule). Simply put: awesome.

    - Static Maps + no limit on the games you can start. I believe on BNet you have to wait 5 minutes (more?) before creating a new game, and I know that every new game means you have to find your way around a different map. In SP you can get a good map and do as many 30-second Meph runs as you please, without getting Blizzard's undies tied in a knot.

    - the /players8 command. More drops that you don't have to share, and more levelup runs you don't have to make.

    - dupes (or lack thereof).


    ... to me, these things are well worth SP's lack of Anni & Torch (though I wouldn't mind kicking some uber-butt someday, even without the rewards)
     
  8. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Dupes and lag and anoying b.net kids are the only "real" reasons for SP, but they're more than enough.

    No trading is both an advantage and disadvantage - more challenging on one hand, but on the other hand makes some builds impossible or just much weaker than they should be. If you trade you're taking risk just like you would trading on ladder - it's actually easier to cheat on SP but then again not as many people cheat on SP as they usually trade with people on these forums only, but it's far from totally safe.

    Atma and saving maps are stuff I consider as things that help you make up for the fact you can't trade, rather than actual reasons to play SP. They don't make the game more challenging for sure, but also don't really make it easier either, just faster (in most cases).

    I'll join in on the new ladder though until dupes hit again. Then either back to SP or find a new game. The "let's play D2 again for a bit until I find something better to play" had dragged on for longer than I expected ;p
     
  9. Neilski

    Neilski IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Thanks for the welcome and the tips guys.

    I've downloaded GoMule and tested it out - seems to work very nicely (life saver - I'm no way enough of a purist to do without muling).

    The Runewordmod does seem like something to think about, though in reality I may not ever get enough nice runes for it to make a difference ;-)

    And the lack of the Uber quests is again a bit of a bummer but realistically I doubt I'll actually play any characters up to high enough levels to kill the uber-baddies anyway so I guess I won't miss it.

    The lack of cheating is a bit of a puzzle for me. The whole crazy ladder economy (dupes) is pretty lame, though the shockingly low drop rate for the high end items is also a shame. I'm puzzled that the SP economy isn't flooded with dupes though, since I'd have thought people would be not only able to dupe items but edit them to tweak stats and change fingerprints etc. (but maybe not possible I guess) which whould render the SP economy even more broken than Ladder. The evidence is pretty clear that this isn't happening though (phew!).

    What I'm planning to read up on more is maps - I love the fact that they don't vanish when you exit a game. However, I seem to recall that years ago when I last played D2 a lot, the SP maps sometimes got reset - probably when I played Open Battle net or TCP/IP games. I don't recall figuring out exactly how to stop it from happening, or backup the maps to restore later, so if there is a handy link (or God forbid a sticky ;-)) I'd appreciate a pointer to it. (This time I have actually tried the search facility! hehe...)

    Players8 is great, and I got a brand new char to level 12 yesterday in an amazingly short time. Very encouraging!
     
  10. lionheartthebrave

    lionheartthebrave IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    That is due to our hard working super-mods, Thyiad sirpoops, Cattleya, Hrus and Alterego


     
  11. Neilski

    Neilski IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Ah, I think I get it. It's not that the SP economy isn't broken, it's that *THIS* SP economy (the SPTF forum) isn't broken...


     
  12. Turbocannon

    Turbocannon IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Not completely. It's because Bnet is supposed to have dupes in the current situation and SP is not, but most people who come here have the sense to understand this. (This just in, I shudder to think how a name of Sirpoopsalot can get to be a Mod.) AND EVEN MORE, because those who want dupes in SP can do it to themselves easily with no risk to themselves (editors are an even more obvious example since it takes no brains to DL one and there you go, faster than any grushing). Which basically means that there is no serious SP economy. Here people are mostly decent, but then again this isn't the biggest trade forum for DII either.
    Anyway, reason not to play SP is because it will get dead boring. Eventually you'll come to the point where only PvP will not be pointless, and then you can just bang yourself in the head that you started the whole SP thing.
    As for the maps, they reset whenever you switch difficulties in SP.


     
  13. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Bnet isn't *supposed* to have dupes. If you honestly believe Blizzard sat down and thought "let's have talentless idiots duping items because they are too stupid/lazy/unskilled to play the game properly, I think you need to re-evaluate your views.

    As any Mod does. By showing consistently good ideas, being helpful to the forum and appreciating cats and jaffa cakes.

    How long have you been here? How long have you lurked and got a feel for this forum before posting? Have you actually been *in* the SPTF?

    I looked at a lot of forums - and still do - and this is by far and away the most mature, welcoming and cheat-less environment that I have found in three years.

    We do get the odd troll and the odd cheat. They get shown the door. Quickly.

    Aaaah, I see. You're lost. Listen. This is the SPF. We play SP because we like having static maps, we like being able to play tourneys, we like being able to go for a perfect grail and we like the fact that hitting 99 means more than sitting in someone elses ubers game with little torches and annis that give ridiculous improvements in stats.

    If you don't like playing SP, fine. Go play bnet, but it's a bit cheeky to come and give reasons not to play SP in the SPF, don't you think?

    Wrong. They change if you host or join a TCP/IP game or if you change difficulties.



     
  14. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    ...mmmm.... cat-flavoured jaffa cakes... :cloud9: [/Homer Simpson voice]

    And I thought it was the tequila-slurred posting that got me selected for modship - you mean it wasn't? That changes my whole outlook on this forum - I'm gonna have to go to the bar and drink on this (uh... I mean think on this :wink:).


    Spamming aside, I'd have to say static maps in SP are a very serious advantage. They're inconsequential for questing, but for MF runs, they can't be beat (well, there's MapHack, but that's an entirely different discussion).

    For example, I've been running a bit of WSK and Baal lately (full clears), and I don't even need to activate my map anymore. I always know where I'm going, and there are also a couple of consistent high-monster-concentration areas that I know I'll need to be on my toes for (one small branch in WSK3 consistently has 3-5 boss packs, and the north-west branch of the Throne level consistently has 2-3 boss packs), and there are other sections of the map that I can 'coast' through.

    Also, if you think static maps aren't particularily useful, have a look at the LK Superchests thread and take note of some of the finds from our rack-runners. Those aren't even realistic targets on BNet. Or do 2000 Meph runs with a good map in SP and compare it to 2000 on BNet. With BNet's 5-minute limit on spawning games (and/or the time required to load/join someone else's games), you can do Meph runs A LOT faster in SP.



     
  15. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Ehh? I don't understand? what will get dead boring? If you play legit in SP, it will take much more time to get those most wanted items than on BNet. Getting to lvl99 takes more time (than well-organized) too in SP. IMHO you will get bored sooner at BNet after you will get your enigmas and infinities second week of the ladder. Now get them in SP - that's a real achievement!

    You will probably soon miss your Spirits and Insights :)



     
  16. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Some of the ladder only runewords are pretty easy to make. Not all require a lifetime of playing to get the runes to make them - spirit (usually shield) is the best example. However I find the game more than easy enough with those so I'm keeping to play unmodded.
    As a part of the SP challenge (and making sure I'm as legit as I want to be, with no risk of trading with someone who traded with someone who traded with someone who used a duped item he got from someone else for his MF runs) I don't trade either. The "good" builds are very viable without trading anything once you make 1 "overpowered" build for MFing (like a sorc/hammerdin/summon nec or even FA+LF zon).

    One last thing is if you think you need the b.net dupes, just make them yourselves in SP and save yourself the trouble of supporting the dupe effort which ruins the game for a lot of people.
     
  17. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    Duping is not accepted in the SPF; do not encourage that type of behaviour and suggest 'it doesn't effect others'. It does, unless totally isolated on your own machine. If that's what you meant, say so.

    Dupers/hackers/cheats are unwelcome here. Please read the forum rules.
     
  18. okiimatsu

    okiimatsu IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    oh and to think one of the best reasons to play singleplayer. you dont need an internet connection! oh my god the genius! pfffff, enough reason for me.
     
  19. Eric Xanthu

    Eric Xanthu IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    It's good to have posts like these last few every now and then. It helps the SPF restate/clarify its identity and purpose.

    I've played Diablo II since 1.04 Classic, accumulated and lost fortunes of items by inactivity, and lived through countless generations of hacks and cheats on Bnet. Years later, I still play SP and never Bnet. Right now I'm having a blast making a run at 99, bringing up the rear behind Callador and RibGriller, even though I estimate it will take me a year to complete the task.

    There's my commentary on "boring."
     
  20. Turbocannon

    Turbocannon IncGamers Member

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    Re: SP vs. ladder

    I'll assume all of us have an internet connection they can regularly go on here.

    Huh? The dupers are the ones who do. If I'm lucky and work hard, I might get one Enigma or Infinity on Ladder. You seem to have the usual, skewered point of view that SPers have about online players, and that's exactly the reason why I post here - other than challenge games and tourneys. Indeed, getting an Enigma in SP is a real achievement - short of making 17k Lower Kurast runs like some VERY PATIENT PERSON did some time ago, I'd probably never even try to get one. Anyway, I don't know whether you disregarded my comment about PvP: PvPing is expensive, even your Enigmas and your Infinities may not be enough to properly outfit several good PvPing characters (and that doesn't just mean the desyncing hammerdins; I don't know if you ever read about those but some dueling jewels are damn expensive), so even the "enigmas and infinities" argument is partially flawed.

    I never said static maps are useless, did I? I didn't list them in the advantages though because indeed, I don't find them all that great. Meph runs are much easier on SP this way, yes. But that doesn't stop me from doing them on Bnet, does it? Nope. And I can still get some serious loot without wasting too much time on Bnet. The thing is, in a typical Bnet MF game I run several places at once so that I won't have to make so many games. More diverse as well to do a Countess, a Mephisto, a Pindle, a *insert superchest here* run in one game as well, no? And no, I don't use MH.

    I don't believe that. It's the players' actions and Blizzard's inability to keep the game as however it was made, is what makes Bnet supposed to have dupes. If I've used the wrong word, I'm sure you still get my point.

    I haven't been here for too long, but I think I got the whole point already. I don't think I said anything that showed this forum was not "mature, welcoming and cheat-less". I don't think you answered my problem.

    You don't have to level by getting grushed on B.net either. Again, wild usage of stereotypes, which implies that you are trying to look at the bad side of Bnet and cover everything with that - which might be somewhat acceptable if you try to use the dupe-based economy but not with the grushing argument. As for the torch/anni thing, we all know about and all the rest that let you kill the Ubers in SP and more. These two unique charms are not Ladder-exclusive anymore.

    I don't think it's cheeky, anyway. Not under the current circumstances. The topic's title is "SP vs. Ladder", which to me means that the topic is intended to compare SP and Ladder. So I don't think it's unreasonable to come up with a few points against SP.
     

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