Sorc's the only good MF class?

Thyiad

Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian
I agree that it really does depend where you are running. Optimizing the build for the run is part of the fun, I think. I don't do much running, it bores me; see my MFO results, but I have found these combinations effective:
Cold/Fire sorc - most places including Baal.
Light sorc - Pindle/cows
Fishy - Pits and anytime I fancy wandering around a large area (EG main maps) just picking stuff up.
I know there is a gold find Barb Guide knocking around that looks very good and I hear people who use them for that can get more gold in drops than just picking stuff up to sell. Hrus' MF Guide is good and most of Nightfish's Guides have a MF section to them (certainly the Fishymancer the the LFzon built for the WSK does).
 

Kefir-Tribe

Diabloii.Net Member
Sorcs are tools. Very good for getting items that makes it possible to build characters that are actually fun to play. :tongue:
 

BabyLink

Diabloii.Net Member
Almost any class can mf but the sorc is the fastest. You can mf with leap or leap attack, viguor/charge, the aura like thing that increase your speed with the asn...

And make a summoner necro to run those level 85 areas.
thats a nice build too
 

AJK

Diabloii.Net Member
Kefir-Tribe said:
Sorcs are tools. Very good for getting items that makes it possible to build characters that are actually fun to play. :tongue:
*zaps Kefir-Tribe*
Hey look! A naked kittty!

Now that that's taken care of, I'd have to say that builds with teleport are the first choice when it comes to serious MF'ing. But if you can manage a lot of FRW on a non-tele character, coupled with a nice map, you could MF just as efficient.

My target item-run times: Meph, 45 secs. Pindle, 25 secs. A85 areas: more than four boss packs per minute. It's very true that endless Pindle/Meph runs are boring, but they're worth the freedom your following characters have in their item selection.
 

trihero

Diabloii.Net Member
Yea that's the unfortunate thing, the sorc really does seem to be the best tool while everybody else mooches off her items! At least a year from now I can have fun once I have the nice items :D
 

scwormy

Diabloii.Net Member
MF Barb

Barb's are good at MF, but don't use a IK Barb if this is your purpose.
The reason is that anything that isn't cold immune will be shattered and you won't be able to use find item (which basically defeats the purpose of using the barb).
 

trihero

Diabloii.Net Member
I might start using a barb for Thresh Socket. You can get a crystal passage waypoint right next to the entrance where he is, and it should be pretty fast to down him with a merc and dual swinging. He can't shatter ever, so with a 50% item find that run could be very efficient.

I just found the soul cage of the IK set ^_^ It's probably no good for MFing though like you said because it can shatter corpses -_-
 

chumley669

Diabloii.Net Member
Not that my input is needed at this point, but I would say that it depends greatly on what you consider fun. A never-ending series of 30 second enters and saves to kill a single target loses it's appeal to me in about, oh, 3 1/2 minutes. I personally have a great deal of fun with my Skelliemancer.

1. Easy to start a "run", I just go to Pindle's garden and raise my army very quickly. Sometimes I do this for my above-stated 3 1/2 minutes, trying to get Pindle to drop me something decent.
2. Once my army is raised, the beauty of the Skelliemancer (all hail Nightfish!) becomes apparent...he can safely go anywhere, and he's not limited by gear choices. Load up on MF gear. Keep a Teleport amulet around.
3. My "runs" go from Pindle to the superchests in Lower Kurast, to Meph, to Ancient Tunnels, to Pits, to Andy. Total time: about 10-15 minutes. IF I'm feeling in the mood for some real punishment, I'll go run the WSK with it's Oblivion Knights. That takes about another 5-10 minutes.

So rather than a save and exit every 30 seconds, I get to do something much like questing, while hitting all the obvious targets. Much more fun for a player such as myself. And it has happened more than once that I simply do not have the space to keep the things that I have found and wish to keep before the end of a "run".

The point of this diatribe? If you're after 30 second kills, nothing will compare to a sorc on specific targets. For a bit more of a gaming type of feel while still doing MF runs, a Skelliemancer is the ticket. It will all depend on you and your play style.
 

Sir Dante

Diabloii.Net Member
Smite 20, Holy Shield 20, Fant 20, Fant Active, Any Elite Paladin Shield, With Goblin Toes, Orphans Helmet, a Black Flai, and Teleport charges can Kill Hell Meph faster on Players 5 then a pure Cold Sorc.

Max Smite Speed, 100% Crushing Blow, and Decent Damage. You can get 300% Magic find on him which is enough and can take Meph down in 15 seconds.
 

jjscud

Diabloii.Net Member
Sir Dante said:
Smite 20, Holy Shield 20, Fant 20, Fant Active, Any Elite Paladin Shield, With Goblin Toes, Orphans Helmet, a Black Flai, and Teleport charges can Kill Hell Meph faster on Players 5 then a pure Cold Sorc.

Max Smite Speed, 100% Crushing Blow, and Decent Damage. You can get 300% Magic find on him which is enough and can take Meph down in 15 seconds.
I suspect its quite a bit faster. My current Smiter only has Orphan's Helm and is coming in under 10 seconds on p1. p5 is 3x life but with 3x CB, the time should be similar.

This really gets to my main point here. A cold sorc's greatest strength is not just her killing speed but her versatility. She can hit a major target from each type of run (Meph, Pindle, Ancient Tunnels, Baal runs) with good speed and reasonable gear.

Personally, I don't like cookie cutter running. I've basically retirered all my sorcs from active MF'ing. I think most targets can be run just as effectively with other builds. As has been discussed, smiters for Meph, LF zons for pindle, etc.

This has become my two part goal (after my lvl 99 char). 1) Building chars that can run popular targets with efficiency equal to that a Blizz sorc. 2) Alternate run types that can be efficient and enjoyable but are not part of the standard trio (Meph, Pindle, tunnels or pits).
 

kabal

Diabloii.Net Member
15 seconds just to kill Meph isn't terribly impressive. Cold sorcs can down him faster with blizz + ice blast + static while wearing more MF.

For all intents and purposes, sorcs are the best MF class since they're the best at killing the two major MF targets (Hell Meph and Hell Pindle, although lightning zon and blizzard sorc are neck and neck when it comes to Pindle). If you plan on trading for items, don't bother with Meph and just go straight to Pindle.
 

DarkChaos

Diabloii.Net Member
I hope that my opinions count for something here, if not it's just a waste of post, but here goes!

I've personally tried MFing with every single character class at one point of another, often with multiple builds for each class. A short rundown:

Sorceress: As many others have pointed out, she is the MF class. Cold-based sorceresses (with or without backup spells) are very fast for absolutely anything. Meph, Baal, Pindle, and alvl85 (Ancient Tunnels comes to mind, which is better than Pits -- and I'm sure some of you will want to argue with me here) and all that. I personally run Pindle with a pure Blizzard sorceress with MF maximized (well over 700), Meph (when I used to run him, with the same sorceress), alvl85 with the same pure Blizz again (although gear is switched for maximized resists -- Full Tal's), and my Baal-running sorceress was a Blizzard/Fireball hybrid, with whom I got to 99 with recently. The Blizzballer takes quite a lot of good gear to be efficient, however. Lightning sorcs for Pindle are very good as well, and also for rune running -- Countess, LK, Cows, and such.

Necromancer: Skeleton-based Necromancers would be my character of choice to start fresh with in 1.10+. With Enigma they can rival the sorc for every type of running except Pindle, and probably Meph. Safest possible build that requires the least gear of any class to be efficient. Specialized gear makes him a lot better as well.

Amazon: Another viable build for MFing. Many different builds that can all be efficient. Lightning-based zons can be comparable to Blizz or Lightning sorcs for Pindle. Hybridzons can run all alvl85s with relative ease and safety, and they are very good rune runners as well. Lightning zons as already mentioned, and Freezing Arrow, Strafe, etc all make for good MFers and can be combined into one potent hybrid. MF is not usually as high as sorc or necro but past 250 or 300 diminishing returns really start to kick in anyways. Good for running general areas anyways if rune-finding is right up your alley.

Paladin: Hammerdin with Enigma is comparable to a sorceress and does not really need to switch gear to be effective in almost any area of the game. Even without Enigma, teleport charges amulet, or simply Vigor+Charge will get you to where you want fast. Safe build as well, can easily have max block and still a ton of health, not to mention the insane AoE damage output. Too boring for me to play, although I did level one to low or mid 90s off mostly Pit runs. They are really terrible for Pindle though. FoHer is quite good for Pindle, and I say this from experience, not just theoretically. Melee Paladins are not a viable option for me seeing as I'm hardcore but they can be very powerful. King's Sceptre I remember had an awesome WSK+Baal running MF Zealot. Tesladins and other variants can also be viable. Pallies generally don't have as much MF as sorcs, unless they are Hammerdins -- then they can have upwards of 500 with a lot of MF gear.

Druid: I think strijdje showed us all how amazing a MF druid can be. Wind Druid can run any area in the game quite efficiently -- and is so safe that you could fall asleep doing runs, wake up and still be alive! They do require better gear, though. I have a 95ish Wind Druid that I eventually got bored of (similar reasons as Hammerdins) that used Enigma and all the trimmings, it was very powerful. I wouldn't recommend a Fire caster Druid due to low damage in full MF gear -- but I'm sure someone can prove me wrong on that one. As for melee, I don't have enough experience with MF melee builds on this one so I can't comment. Good for general area running and rune-running as well.

Barbarian: Last but certainly not least is the dual-wielding beast with Find Item. Find Item alone makes a Barb viable -- even if he is slower than other classes, the Find Item makes up for it. Best use with 2x Ali Babas on switch and you can get some awesome gear from horking like that. Good at running Pits and decent at Pindle. Also good at areas that are not as commonly run (runes and the less-commonly visited alvl85 and alvl84 areas), though I don't have much experience running Baal -- seems a bit slow and too dangerous for my taste (maybe not if I was softcore).

Assassin: Lightning trappers are certainly viable, and I'm sure any type of trapper could get the job done as well. A well-equipped Lightning trapper could do awesome Baal runs I believe -- before making a Blizzballer I seriously considered taking a Trapper to 99 off Baal, but I have a love affair with Sorcs so that one was the obvious choice. Doc Tenshi used a lightning trapper as a MFer to great results. Amazing crowd control in the form of Cloak of Shadows and can be quite a safe build with many utility skills in her arsenal. The only thing that irks me about the assassin is that you have to lay down the traps before you can get the killing done, contrary to the instant cast of the Sorceress (save for Meteor), which is the only thing that stops the Assassin for being as fast a Pindle runner as the sorceress is. Don't have experience with melee or BF assassins so I can't comment on those.


To sum it up? All classes can MF, and all have weaknesses and strengths... except the sorc -- sorc is better than every other class for any type of run!! :wink3:
 

Fluffballer

Diabloii.Net Member
There is a decent poison necro MF guide in the necro forum. Obviously just replace the bramble/enigma with Skullder's or something, but there aren't a alot/any unbreakable PIs in many areas of the game and they (necros) fall into the "gargantuan damage over an area" class that hammers, LF/multizons, and sorcs fall into.
 

jjscud

Diabloii.Net Member
I should point out that a LF zon can also take down Meph with simlar speed. It will require a couple teleport charges each run but that's easy to deal with.
 

Hrus

Diabloii.Net Member
DarkChaos said:
Ancient Tunnels comes to mind, which is better than Pits -- and I'm sure some of you will want to argue with me here
I agree with you - density of bosses seems to be higher than in the Pits and the entrance could be located much closer to WP - it's 1 teleport away on my map.

In the last untwinked MF tourney, I used a hammerdin and he was quite good at running Meph especially when he was at lower levels. From my experience with sorcs - they have difficulties to kill Meph if they are not twinked and are 5-10 levels lower than him. Their merc dies quickly and Moat Trick is too slow imho. On the other hand - hammerdin tanks Meph himself and with 75% block and 4times lower damage from him, he survives much better than his merc.
 

Ugla

Diabloii.Net Member
Hi all,
please, could anyone explain several things here?

1. Meph - I can hardly believe your 10s runs, for it takes me about 3s just to start the game and even more to save&exit. I know my computer isn't top class, but anyway.

2. Pindle - Even if you stuff your sorc with frw charms, I doubt she could be faster then any other class, for the most time-consuming part of the job seems to be the red portal run, which cannot be hastened except for Vigor or BoS. And of course restarting the game..

3. WSK - I have seen pure blizz mentioned here several times. But when more witches spawn in front of Baal, its seems like restart for you. Is this delay worth it in long run compared to dual-tree builds? Never tried those.

Thanks.
Ugla
 

Corrupted

Diabloii.Net Member
1. 10 seconds only goes for the part of the actual killing of Mephisto. (Not getting to him etc.)

2. There's just no character class that compares to the killing speed of a Blizzard Sorceress apart from the Lightning Fury-zon. Those with FRW enhancing abilities are nowhere near those two in terms of killing speed.

3. Those can be killed with a Bonehew and some good merc usage (But it can eb a pain in the *** though.)
 

trihero

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks for the input. I do see how any class *could* MF, but definitely not as well as the sorc, and not even that well until top items are harvested. I keep seeing things like "well this character with enigma is ok" when I can't get an enigma.

The problem to me is that classes like a bowazon or tesladin or phoenix strike assassin just have to sacrifice slots in order to use good weapons and leaching to kill stuff, whereas the caster types like sorc/druid/necro can just deck themselves sleazily in MF gear.

I just with melee-based builds besides the barbarian had a chance at MF. You just never hear of werebear MFers, or phoenix strike assassins, or zealots, etc =P They're completley moochers that you just twink for fun, not try to get items or exp with.
 

FrostBurn

Diabloii.Net Member
Ugla said:
3. WSK - I have seen pure blizz mentioned here several times. But when more witches spawn in front of Baal, its seems like restart for you. Is this delay worth it in long run compared to dual-tree builds? Never tried those.
At /p1, the CIs can be dealt with, but it's slow. At /p8, just restart and pray. With three types of CIs in the Throne Room, and all of them nasty (i.e. Hell Witch, Dark Lord and Oblivion Knights), a small amount of skill in playing a pure Blizz sorc is required to minimise the number of save & exits. Imo, it's not worth it, more for the annoyance and irritation it causes, than for the extra time it takes.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, dual element builds are overall much faster and more efficient than single element builds, especially when used for area running. Single element builds are very much limited to bosses and 1-2 level 85 areas. If that appeals to you, then go for it. If it doesn't, then build a dual element sorc which will run the whole game with ease.
 

Evah

Diabloii.Net Member
a singer-baba is a descent MFer. I used to run NM and Hell Meph (though the killing job was done very quickly by my merc wearing guillaumes; i was just tanking them), The Pits (however i avoided running Mausoleum ant Tunnels cos i did encounter lots of PI bosses); also i used to run Flayers' Jungle at /8ppl just 4 exp, but lots of good stuff dropped there).

and one more thing about a baba-MFer: find item + dual Gull on switch.
 
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