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sorceress debate

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Frozen Orb, Sep 22, 2006.

  1. Frozen Orb

    Frozen Orb Banned

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    sorceress debate

    as i recently stated in my intro, i recently started singleplayer a few weeks ago. the general concensus for a new player is to shop meph for some gear. Well everyone seems to favor a pure blizzard sorc for pure meph, but to me the blizzballer or meteorb seems like itd be easier to beat the game and get to meph quicker. what do most of you prefer?
     
  2. Suiling

    Suiling Banned

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    I guess meteorb, although i haven't try that sorc build yet. Blizzballer mainly for running Hell Baal. We got three forum members who get to lv 99 with blizzballer, if i remember correctly..
     
  3. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Oh god! Not another one of these! This thread will go on forever.

    Some people are going to tell you pure Blizz, since they are 'fastest' at running Meph, Pindleskin, Ancient Tunnels. They also come to a crashing halt when they encounter CIs, so no WSK running, no Pits, etc.

    Other will tell you that a dual element sorc is better, and I fall in that camp. I also prefer the Blizzball over the Meteorb, but both are very much in the same league. It is more of a playstyle issue when it comes to these two. Really, if you want an all round balanced char that can run all bosses and all level 85 areas, go with either these two.

    And wear full Tal's with a Magefist. It's next to impossible to beat with its FHR, resists, +life, +mana, + fire/light damage, - enemy cold resistances, 70% FCR, blah blah blah blah blah.

    Edit: The Blizzball that utilises Meteor (as opposed to the variant pure Blizzard that uses FBall only), can not only run Baal, but all other areas of the game efficiently and productively.
     
  4. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    Man, talk about a thread title to catch my attention. *runs to grab his spreadsheets* Don't worry, I'll try to keep my post to less than 10 pages. :azn:

    Nah, I can probably do this in a few lines. There was a time that I would have fought to death to defend the meteorb. ForstBurn has had the distint pleasure of sitting through a few of those debates. :grin: But I've really come to realize that Meteorb vs. BlizzBaller is a real tight race. It probably comes down to play style as to which you prefer. They both offer a good dual tree build that will be able to take you through the entire game. Either one is far better than a straight blizzard build for general game play, or questing.

    I really tired myself out the last time I sat down to calculate the numbers. If you want to get into the weeds of the numbers, check this thread out. http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=496854

    FrostBurn is dead on about the tal set thing, best equipment out there for a General play, dual tree, PvM, MF sorc.

    If you're using Ladder runewords:
    Tal Set + Magefists + Perfect Spirit = 105% Fast Cast. For either build, this will get you a great teleport speed and some darn quick fireballs. (If you can't get a perfect spirit, just add in a FCR Ring until you do.
     
  5. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Tread carefully! The pure Blizz sorc fans here could eat you for breakfast!
     
  6. Eric Xanthu

    Eric Xanthu IncGamers Member

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    I totally agree with the points made so far. A few to add:

    For a fresh start SP, Blizzard gets to Hell Meph just fine, hits its killing power faster, and relies on less gear. If you spend some time at NM Meph, your merc can get you through some key CIs in Hell, or you can skip that and just get really good at teleporting.

    Once you are established with gear and such, the dual element almost certainly reigns supreme. See above posters. That gives pure blizzard a niche utility, dual element a long-term power and flexibility.

    /opinion of someone who still MFs with a pure blizz sorc
     
  7. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    Blizzard is a great spell, but anytime you go single tree it really limits what you can do. If you only want a Meph runner, by all means go pure Blizz, if you want to PvP too, same thing. I'm not a fan of just tyring to teleport past everything that you can't kill, but it does work for some.

    But for General gameplay - go meteorb or blizzballer. You'll start either build as a single element sorc all of the way through normal, and most of the way through NM. You only really need to have the 2nd tree for hell, but start developing it about half way to hell, otherwise it will be too weak when you get there.

    You can find guides for both builds over in the sorc forum too.

    *edit Pure Blizzard also works well in a party that has someone else to handle the cold immunes.

    OT, what is that sig FrostBurn? My latin is real rusty. All I can make out is "of the people"
     
  8. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Wow! I can make up words that even I don't know! How cool am I?? :grin:
     
  9. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    yeah, "publius" is a real word. Base for the english word public. "virius" is close to a few words too, thought I was just missing the congegation or something.

    Go Vikings, beat the Bears!
     
  10. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    You have asked for MF starting character. Though being universal is the advantage of dual tree sorc, pure blizz is the most effective at: 1) running Meph, 2) running Pindle, 3) running Ancient Tunnels, 4) running Cows. She can also run LK chests and nothing is naturally CI there...

    Dual tree only for questing and Baal imho.
    (BTW: I have a Blizzball sorc in Untwinked MF tourney and she doesn't kill Meph quiclly until she has a good gear. Now I have +8 skills from equip and she starts to be competitive with a blizzsorc...)

    Mephisto has 75 cold resistance (Pindle 50), so the points in Cold Mastery are very important and since usually Pure blizzsorc has much more CM than Blizzball, she is good even without +skills.
     
  11. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    I'm not enough of a numbers head to give exact details, but I believe in using the best tool for the job. I don't use a Swiss Army knife to put in screws because a screwdriver is better.

    Build the runners you need for waht you need them for.
    - A pure blizz sorc for Meph, the Tunnels and Pindle.
    - A CL/Orb sorc for the countess
    - Then whatever you want.

    I agree a Tal's set is probably the best, but as this is a starting character Frozen Orb won't have the items. I wish I had the armour for that matter... Sure, WSK and the pits are not an option for pure Blizz, but if you have exhausted Pindle and Hell Meph, there won't be much you need to go there for.

    My advice: Pure Blizzard. You can get by with a 4os Gothic Plate and 3os Helm socketed with Perfect Topazes until the Skullder's and the Shako drop.
     
  12. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    I agree with maxicek.
    There is no best sorc mf'er to me. Those who say that one build is best for everything does not fully understand areas and immunes.

    My Blizsorc is used for Meph/anc tunnels/pindle, and there she is great for that. If you want only an MF'er for above places, a pureblizz is good.
    She will not take on baal, due to immunes. For that you'd need to build a duel elemental.
    So it all depends on whether she's for questing, or which area she'll MF.

    I am! :grin: Getting her to Guardian through act 3 and 5 was fun... I killed only what I had to and ignored the rest.
     
  13. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    You are all presuming that F.O. will be happy to work his sorcy to NM Memph and then stop there. That may bore them stupid. Or they may feel they want to Mat/Pat every character. That's a tad tricky if you can't kill a lot of the monsters. (Wave 2 Baal anyone?) Yes a well equipped merc can handle it, but the idea is to MF, yes?

    Re-read that. "Beat the game"; to me that implies Mat'd. For that reason I would vote dual tree if F.O. you want to take this char all the way. Although my untwinked vanilla meteorb MP'd to Mat'dom, I really felt she was killing things and solo she is fine.

    If you do decide to go pure Blizzard, there is a whole MP thread and the giveaway thread is very much worth a look. (Watch your mod status though.)
     
  14. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    @Thyiad
    Someone who was MF'ing Baal wouldn't go pure Bliz. I had to separate all those cold mages (very slow) and teleport from one to the next for my merc to kill them.
    If you just want to Guard/mat/pat them, a pure blizz is decent if you take it slowly for the guys you have to kill (oblivion knights near Diablo, wave 2 Baal etc,) AND rush past those you don't need to/can't kill: teleport.
    But to guard/pat/mat, I would go duel element for the fun and killing ability.
    Pure blizz's are amazing for MF'ing the areas I mentioned above. [AT, Meph and Pindle]
     
  15. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    I am reading that as get to meph quicker, you can beat the game in 5 hours with a sorc...
    And it took me around 1 hour for my untwinked blizzball (who didn't use a fire tree) from beginning of Act 1 hell to hell meph. Yes you don't have to kill everything to beat the game, just the act bosses. If someone plan to MF Meph/Pindle a lot more than questing, it's worth a hassle to have an effective char for that runs, not for questing.
    I can't understand that people are afraid of immune monsters despite the fact that they can ignore them and use teleport.
     
  16. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    Pure Blizz sorc is easily Mat-able solo. My first SP Mat was a Blizz sorc, and IIRC we have a lvl 99 pure blizz sorc in the SPF. Corpse Explosion charges from Bonehew were used for the CI wave of minions.

    You just need to use the 1 point wonders - Teleport to get through CI areas, Telekinesis to feed Anya the potions and Static to help out your merc with CIs you have to get past. Hell meph runs should easily give you good enough gear to allow your merc to take them out on P1.

    Edit:
    And Nightfish used Pure Blizz for his Speedy_II Guardian although that was more than a bit twinked.
     
  17. SeDnA

    SeDnA IncGamers Member

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    Personally, I like the 100% Blizzy Sorc a lot. Well she was my main MFer can certainly run Baal, using Bonehew on switch, as mentioned by the previous poster. Basically, I agree with all the "Pure Blizz" posters. =D
     
  18. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    I wouldn't bother making a CL/FO just to do the countess. Any meteorb or blizzballer is strong enough to kill all her minions, then you can just let your merc take her down. My merc generally has her killed before I can even switch over to static to help.

    I think CL/FO ends up being an inferior build to meteorb or blizzballer. The L/CL damage is real low unless really synergized. There's lots of great Lightning gear too, but it will end up being a real expensive build - or near impossible to MF it all solo.

    Check out my link in post 4 to see why I discount the CL/FO builds.
     
  19. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Precisely. Even at /p8 (which should not be done), the Countess dies after only a couple of prods from the merc.

    The pure Blizzard sorc can run Baal's 2nd wave using Bonehew's CE, at /p1. Blizzballs and Meteorbs need not fiddle with the players setting or weapon switch. They can set the players setting from 1-8 (depending on how good their gear is and skills are), and leave it at that. In other words, no 'fwaffing about'.
     
  20. trihero

    trihero IncGamers Member

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    I have to second Hrus with a pure blizzard sorc for hardcore MFing. It takes out meph and pindle quickly and efficiently, due to high levels of cold mastery and blizzard; any points into the fire tree would just make those attacks weaker. I started from scratch and got to hell meph/pindle with little problems. The one major hotspot I had was in the claw viper temple on hell because of all the cold immune vipers, which was arduous. There you just have to be a little creative and do some rerolling the map until the entrance isn't full of vipers, and just take it really slow, luring out one or two vipers at a time so your merc can take them (better be holy freeze and with a decent weapon, hone sundan/kelpie which you can get from nightmare meph). The rest of the cold immune things you can just teleport past =)

    I could see how the blizzballer/meteorb are useful for more diverse areas like the pit and baal running, but the pure blizz is optimal for meph and pindle specifically, and probably really good for cows too. Cold mastery vastly increases the damage you can do versus them while the other two trees would suffer against their resistances even with a lower resist wand. A meteorb against meph I would just question why you would be using fireball or meteor against his 75% fire resists when you could have him at -50% or more with cold mastery and hitting him with 2000-3000 blizzards (nontwinked).
     

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