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Sorc Meteorb - need feedback pls read!!

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by jerichob, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. jerichob

    jerichob IncGamers Member

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    Sorc Meteorb - need feedback pls read!!

    Hi everyone,

    First of all, I'm an old Diablo2 fan and player, who had a long break and I just found back Diablo2. :) Some of my old characters still didn't expire (miraculously) and I found a few ists at the corners of my stash, so I decided to invest in some gear and create a cool character to play and have some fun with Diablo2.

    I decided to make a sorceress character and since I was always a fun of a famous and old Meteorb build, I did just that.

    And this is where my problems begin... I believe I made this charcter quite carefully, and invest quite a bit in the right gear, but... the sorc is not really that good to play. So let me post what I did and perhaps you can have comments for improvements. Feel free to flame my build and point out what I did wrong. Obviously something isn't working and I'm very surprised. I don't really have a clue what's wrong.

    So here is my build and some comments/impressions.

    First of all, let me stress it that I made this sorc to play rather solo or with friends, but still to be able to solo. I would like the sorc to be quite playable in most of the places of Diablo realm, while in some she just dies too often.

    SKILLS
    Cold
    Orb 20
    Cold Mastery 8 (as per the guide!)

    Light
    Statis 1
    Tele 1

    Fire
    Warmth 1
    Fireball 20
    Meteor 20
    Fire Mastery 20
    Firebolt -- the rest

    Also pre-reqs where necessary.

    STATS
    STR 156 in total to be able to wield Stormshield
    DEX 225 eventually for max block
    VIT rest
    ENE 75 base + mods from items

    GEAR
    I think this sorc build needs some strong gear (well, each build does hehe). So I went on and invested a little.

    Shako UMed
    Hoto / CTA5 on switch
    COH
    Stormshield / Spirit on switch
    Mara
    Trang gloves
    Arachnid
    WT
    Soj/BK5

    Anni
    Torch
    Equal mix of Fire/Cold skillers
    20l sc

    MERC
    Nightmare Def Act2 merc.
    ETH Gaze UMed
    ETH COH
    ETH Obedience

    Now I don't have problems playing all the places in acts 1,2 and 3. Andy and Mefi is a little of a problem sometimes, but nothing too terrible.

    Res are maxed for the sorc and for merc, yet the merc dies too often. Gosh, the gear for the merc is not bad, I think. The ethereal COH has something close to 1700 def, eth gaze 460+ def... and eth Obediance gives 230 - 1050 dmg. With CTA merc's life seems OK. Yet it dies. If I leave him with Andy or merc he will die very quickly. In act5, sanctuary he will not survice for more than 30 seconds... Same for act5 Baal runs.

    The good thing about this build, which I experience is FCR (Hoto, Trang gloves). I have no problems to tele fast, it's great. Yet the sorc's life is 1400 max after CTA and it dies too often. The biggest problem is merc, maybe I should consider equipping merc with Infinity, do you think it would help?

    During Baal Runs, the sorc has no chance to tele when there are souls. I was even considering to wield Thundergod to boost light resi. Do you think I should replace Arach? Permanently? Sometimes or never? I was also thinkjing about Phoenix shield... Would you recommend it?

    OK, what are your comments? What do you think I do wrong? I saw so many sorcs, that have no problem at all to solo Baal runs. I just can't do that. Any tips?
     
  2. xNamastex

    xNamastex IncGamers Member

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    I could never solo Baal very effectively with my Meteorb either. It can be done, but just takes a while. I have similar build but use Full Tals setup instead. My merc uses Infinity which does indeed help improve the fire power of the fireball spell and the CB helps kick *** of bosses.

    For souls, I use max block SS and a 18% LA wisp ring. FO works well - one hit and they are dead.

    Phoenix is a nice shield but you won't be able to get a good block with it.
     
  3. GotFriana

    GotFriana IncGamers Member

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    Looking at your equip and skills there doesnt seem to be anything wrong with either the build or items, both for you or the merc. Just consider Mercs usually can t survive with bosses in hell no matter how good their equip is, also Andy s poison is specially lethal for mercs. Another thing to consider is Iron Maiden if your merc does a lot of damage as soon as he gets IMed in WSK or Chaos Sanctuary it means 1 hit dead leaving you instantly alone against the horde of enemies.
    Solo Baal runs are not impossible for a meteorb sorc you just have to be very carefull maybe you are going a bit too fast. Allways keep an eye on your merc and tele him out of trouble as soon as you see Oblivion Knights in any level make sure your merc doesnt get IM and if he does tele him out quick so he doesn t hit anything. Those souls in WSK are a pain but not only for sorcs almost all classes fear them for their insane damage.
     
  4. kuafu

    kuafu IncGamers Member

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    Based on all the solo baal runs I've done with my meteorb, I'll suggest two solutions to handle souls:
    1) Use tgod with 85% lightning resist. This is the safest solution, normal souls will most likely end up healing you. The trade-off is that you can't wear Tal belt or Arachnid. For the first 1000 or so runs I did, I used this setup with the rest Tal pieces. Basically I use tgod to teleport into the throne, clear it up, switch to Tal belt for full set, and kill the five waves followed by baal.
    2) Use a Wisp Projector with high lightning absorption. This is less safe than tgod, as normal souls will still cause damage. The advantage is that you can keep wearing full Tal set. I used this set-up in all the baal runs after I found my 19% absorption wisp. I still need to use pots from time to time, but just I hate switching gears for each run.
    One particular note is on souls with conviction aura or lower resist (from Oblivion Knights in the throne). These will be deadly if you use tgod, but not much an issue if you use wisp. Because full tal set alone gives +138% lightning resist, and your lightning resist will be stacked so high that it's still maxed after Conviction/LR.
    Tal set should always be considered for file/cold-based sorc builds. You can read the sticky thread on how great that set is comparing to shako/hoto combinations. With the current ladder economy, you can sell your Arachnid for 6-10 HRs. Use 1HR to get the full Tal set, and you can use the remaining to get Wisp or to beef up your merc.
    In general, for max-block meteorb sorc (including mine), I'd prefer Sanctuary shield over Stormshield, due to the high resist bonus. But that's just my personal perference, in fact I'm trying Spirit with max-block at the moment:smiley:.
    For merc, get a Fortitude made in eth bugged armor and an Andariel's Visage. I've tested CoH on my merc, not comparable to Fort even though it looks good on paper.
     
  5. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    I play Hardcore and have done fine with less gear, so it might have something to do with your playstyle and/or unrealistic expectations of the build.

    TGod's would indeed make you nearly invincible against Gloams, but it would also put you below the 63%FCR breakpoint. You would either have to replace one of your rings with a nice rare FCR ring or replace your 'CoH' with Vipermagi.


    Your skills look alright, but I would do things slightly differently:

    The 8 Cold Mastery in the guide is based on an assumption of +skills from gear, which you have exceeded. The ultimate goal is to have slvl 17 Cold Mastery after +skills, so I would say your CM is a bit overkill (you could've gotten away with just one point).

    Most Meteorbs tend to use Fire Ball much more than Meteor. Getting maximum Fire Ball damage means redirecting some points from Fire Mastery into Fire Bolt. With your current skill placement you have very good Meteor damage but your Fire Ball damage is far from optimized. (Not a huge difference, but something to consider if you rebuild.)


    As for the Merc:

    Even the most godly of Mercs will not survive Andy regularly if left unattended. Keep your distance and spam Fire Ball. Don't expect your Merc to be able to tank her; she simply does too much damage to Mercs.

    Even the most godly of Mercs will not survive Chaos Sanctuary regularly if left unattended. Fire and Teleport away repeatedly to keep him from killing himself while cursed with Iron Maiden. When you see an opening, Teleport right on top of the Oblivion Knights and smack them in the face with Fire Balls, then pick off the remaining monsters. Rinse and repeat.

    Since you have Static, Crushing Blow on the Merc is unnecessary. A Reaper's Toll (with its chance to cast Decrepify), ethereal if possible, would definitely help increase his durability. The combination of Holy Freeze and Decrepify renders monsters pretty much useless. Also, you might consider replacing that 'CoH' with the oh-so-underrated 'Treachery'. The 20%FHR and 45%IAS keep him swinging and leeching and the Fade is just amazing. Plus, an ethereal-looking Merc is dead sexy.
     
  6. Are

    Are IncGamers Member

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    Personally, I have far less godly equipment for my Sorc, yet she almost never dies (unless the Throne of Destruction gets some nasty combos of monster types and/or auras).

    One thing I have which I don't think you've got with that equipment is maxed resistances (all except poison). It might be worth looking into. My merc is also at maxed resistances, which keeps him alive long enough in most areas, with some help from rejuvs.
     
  7. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    :tongue:

    :rolleyes:
     
  8. SmiterMcZealot

    SmiterMcZealot IncGamers Member

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    rebuild your sorc using Sanctuary and using a LOT less STR and DEX. You need more points in Vit.
     
  9. Are

    Are IncGamers Member

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    Oops... Well, in that case, I have no idea what the problem is.

    Perhaps you believe a Meteorb can solo Baal as easily as pure Blizz or Blizzballer sorcs.. They're more a "can solo Hell quests with no help" build than a "can solo the most popular runs fastest" build.



     
  10. Noite Escura

    Noite Escura IncGamers Member

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    They are on par with blizzballs. Each one runs better some areas of the game. Solo Baal is better with Blizzball...
     
  11. kuafu

    kuafu IncGamers Member

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    I think a good hammerdin/lightning sorc can solo baal runs in 4 minutes on average. A good meteorb sorc in 5 minutes on average. So it's really pretty fast.



     
  12. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze IncGamers Member

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    20 FM, 20 FB, 20 Meteor is probably not the best idea. I don't recall exactly, but synergy points should be something like ~10 points higher than FM to get the maximum fireball damage. Meteor calculations are similar, but a bit more biased towards FM. Because of the way mastery + synergy works (which is multiplicatively), just carefully allocating your skill points can get you an extra 1k damage on your fireball, without changing your equipment! Use a skill calc if you are too lazy to work all the math out. BTW, I would definitely go for full Tal's if not using infinity. The -15/-15/+15 means an increase of your total damage by at least 15% (except for Anderial). These are small points though, since you are asking about survival, not how to kill 10% faster.

    My sorc has maxed resist in hell, 105 FCR, but only 1.3k life and 20% block with spirit, yet I can tele to Baal and kill him solo 95% of the time, minimum, even with souls and OK's. Dolls are a bit of a bigger problem. 1 thing I find in general is that hugging the edge while teleing is a lot safer.

    For merc survival, here's a few things I personally noticed.
    Don't let merc tank bosses for more than a few seconds, since bosses does extra damage to them. A block sorc like yours should tank them yourself.
    For Andy: Andy never touches merc because of my fireballs usually takes her out before reaches my merc, sometimes even before she appears on my screen.
    For Meph: Static, orb, and -15 resist fireball usually takes him out before merc dies. If merc is in trouble, I tele him around. Since you are a block sorc, tank meph yourself, since meph is unleachable.
    For Chaos: Merc dies from IM. The better your merc's weapon, the faster he dies...... If it is not from that, try using glacial spike to freeze enemies. Drop 10 meteors at D's spawn point if you want to see him die faster than a hammerdin can kill him.
    For Baal: The same goes too. My cheap merc w/o BO can survive the last 2 packs without too much problem because I freeze everything with GS while using orb. I forgot where I learned that trick from, but GS + orb + static pretty much make sure that you and your merc can survive Lister, even if he is spawned with bad mods. Also, tank the hydras, or your merc will die faster than you can swear.
    For Halls of Vaught: The bugged vipers and CE's will kill you and your merc in no time, and I cannot think of a solution for it other than to run that guy with my barb (not even nature's peace was enough, and I don't want to waste a CtA on her).

    My own merc gear is nothing to be proud at neither, but it does its purposes well enough.
    Eth insight CV, since I hate chunking pots.
    Duriel's shell, for CBF and resist.
    Andy's Visage, raled, for leech and IAS.
     
  13. Speedster

    Speedster IncGamers Member

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    I'll agree with the post above that it could be your playing style. My lvl 97 sorc's life is 1428 or so with (level 18) BO, and she does fine. She doesn't even use many potions unless she runs into conviction souls - then she chugs purples like everyone does. Her fcr is nothing incredible, and she uses stormshield (to prevent death) as opposed to spirit which she has on switch.

    You just can't play a sorc like a paladin or barb. You have to be really good at not being hit. If there are souls on WSK2, make sure you have your merc and look before you teleport, even if means taking a few steps between tele'ing. Stormshield will save you from death lords, but even with 75% lite resist conviction souls can get you. As mentioned above, teleport along the walls instead of into the middle of the room where everything can target you. Use tele to place your merc around dangerous corners and let him take those lightning blasts from the souls.

    I disagree with the post above about adding more vitality. Put another 200 stat points into vitality and you're still going to have the same issues with souls. Max block is smart. Stock up on 20-life scs, preferably with other mods.

    Equipment notes:

    I use a fire-faceted eschuta's instead of hoto, and my merc has infinity which helps me kill fast.

    Get some magefists - incredible cheap gloves for any fire sorc. Trade the cold gcs for fire gcs.

    Get Fort for your merc. CoH is wasted there.
     
  14. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze IncGamers Member

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    But I get 1 frame faster and +2 skills with spirit, and there is no way I am going to block with that. I find my safety fine, at least for SC, so I opted for faster teleing and kill speed. Each to their own on that, I guess (and I definitely don't want to start another block vs vit thread now).

    The only thing that will save you from convict souls is an anti-(uber)meph setup, which sacrifices a lot in terms of kill speed and etc.
     
  15. jerichob

    jerichob IncGamers Member

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    WOW!! I'm amazed by so many good and helpful replies. Thanks everyone!! I got a lot of feedback, I read your posts and started experimenting a little based on what was said.

    Indeed, I had to change my merc'a gear. I equipped him with Infinity and replaced COH with a 3.1k def eth Forti. In order he could use Infinity, I had to replace eth Gaze with eth Andy face. The effect was incredible... Surely, as the posts above say, I cannot let the merc tank all bosses nor I can leave him alone in the hot areas (I have to tele him out sometimes), but he is doing much better with the new gear. He can even kill Andy or Mefi on his own.

    As for souls, I got Tgods and Wisp. I equip these two when there are souls, replacing Arachnid and BK5. With them, I can tele alright to Baal when there are souls. A very unpleasant drawback is that with tgods and wisp, FCR drops significantly (no 20% FCR from Arach), so tele is awfully slow.

    As for the general gear of my meteorb. I read some other posts, espeially this one:

    http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=151250

    For now I stick with my setup of Hoto/Shako/Coh etc... It's not bad. But I will get full Tal and see how it's working. From the post, which link I provided above, it seems that Tal is better after all.

    Skills. I think one of the posts above was correct. I should probably re-do the sorc and don't max Fire Mastery, but instead go more for FireBolt, in order to improve FireBall. I think roughly something like: 12 FM, 8-10 FireBolt.

    Overall, I find Meteorb a rather weak and difficult build these days. After the tweaks I did, it's at least playable. But it's not the same as playing a hammerdin or a barb, it still requires lots of attention and care, I think.

    Any more comments from you guys?


    And finally: :)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Are
    One thing I have which I don't think you've got with that equipment is maxed resistances (all except poison).

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jerichob
    Res are maxed for the sorc and for merc...

    :)

    :)


    LOL... Res is not a problem at all. Well, with eth Andy for merc, the drawback is that fire res drops below the maximum (depends on merc's level), but I find the benefits of Infi and Forti so overwhelming, that it's not crucial.
     
  16. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze IncGamers Member

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    If you are using infinity, the benefit of Tal's set is reduced. In that case, the uniques setup might be better afterall (I don't know, someone please run the calculations for me since I am tired). Furthermore, if you are using infinity, a light sorc might be an even better alternative.

    The advantage of sorcs is that they have faster tele, but they need more attention. They also got cheaper gear (how much is a pcombat these days......). With a meteorb, soloing the game is fine, but they don't do as well in 8 player games.

    Ral the Andy's to get rid of the -30 fire resist.

    Good luck.
     
  17. jerichob

    jerichob IncGamers Member

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    Thanks.Yea, it makes sense overall... Fast FCR is nice for sorc. Now I think I have 9 fps with Hoto/Trang/Arach 180%. I wonder if it's worth boosting FCR further by using some of those GOSU rings and amu (+skills/FCR/mf/+str/+dex etc.) instead of soj/mara?

    Ha, I was going to ask what to cram into Andy's... Ral the Andy's? OK, this would get right of Fire res pealty. Yet overall isn't it better to put in Ber? (or Cham)

    Another thing, if I go with the non-Tal setup, do you think COH or Viper is better? When I compare, COH has few nice options: 8% Life Leech and 8% Dmg reduction, but Viper has 30% FCR. (res I can max with Viper as well as with COH)



     
  18. Noite Escura

    Noite Escura IncGamers Member

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    I would go with Viper if that could get me one more FCR breakpoint. Otherwise CoH will get you a little more power and survivability. BTW life leach is useless with spells.
     
  19. jerichob

    jerichob IncGamers Member

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    And what do you socket viper with? I'm not sure, but I might max res without putting UM into viper. So what else?



     
  20. SmiterMcZealot

    SmiterMcZealot IncGamers Member

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    shael if you need it for a bp
    facet it if you have a spare one
    Lo for extra survivability versus souls
    heck, ber it

    vmagi is fun like that
     

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