Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Sorc- Max Mana/Mana regen/Energy Shield

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Nevre, Feb 5, 2004.

  1. Nevre

    Nevre IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Sorc- Max Mana/Mana regen/Energy Shield

    Using VenomousVixens calculations (which may be outdated) mana regeneration occurs at the rate of
    MaxaMana * (100 + BaseRegenRateBonus) / 12000.

    It seems possible that a sorceress could gain around 2000 base mana.
    With high level warmth and high level paladin meditation aura (around level 26 each) plus a few bits of equipment around +1500% mana regen rate also seems possible.

    This would give an overall rate of regeneration of about 267 mana/sec.

    With PDR, elemental resists and a good energy shield, would it be possible to kill this sorc?

    Any other thoughts on the matter?
    If anyone would like to get together and test this I am on US West, acct *Nevre, or just PM me.
    Thanks.
     
  2. importpsycho

    importpsycho IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2003
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    33
    it would be possible if energy shield worked like mana shield back in D1
    even if you max energy shield it's 75% from mana and 25% from life
    you still loose life
     
  3. Nevre

    Nevre IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    20
    As far as I can tell Energy Shield actually has a cap of 95%.
    With 75% block and 50% PDR.....
     
  4. [FLS]prozerran

    [FLS]prozerran IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    and what happens after your mana is depleted?
     
  5. jason166

    jason166 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Then you die
     
  6. mathil

    mathil IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    the point of the build is to never run out of mana. i wouldn't count on having a pally with you. run the calculations without the meditation. my guess is that it will come down to 50 or so. add in a little life regen to handle the life loss, and this will be a very hard character to dmg.

    just one little problem. dealing dmg. the only real way to get this to work is a pure orb sorc. with max warmth, e-shield, and telekinesis, that is 64 skill points. at lvl 90 you will get 101 skill points. that is 37 left. that leaves enuf to max orb (25), and drop 12 in cold mastery.
     
  7. Nevre

    Nevre IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    20
    and what happens after your mana is depleted?
    Then you die

    Yes, well I would have thought that was obvious enough that it didnt need to be posted!! The point of my line of inquiry is that you can get around 1500% mana regen, which is not even near possible with life regen.
    (Of course, attacking with life tap on would beat it)

    I would think that skillwise

    Energy shield 20
    Telekinesis 20
    Warmth 20
    Enchant 20
    Fire Mastery 20

    Actually, thinking about it, the warmth doesnt add anywhere near as much man regen as meditation and might not be necessary, that would leave a lot of spare points....but still, would be best for melee I reckon

    Without the pally I just dont think the numbers would add up to anything even remotely exciting.
     
  8. Burnt_toasty

    Burnt_toasty IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Hope people read this thread and keep it going,

    Every week there is a post on this subject and all the misconceptions are heartbreaking.

    1) ES works before resistance takes effect.
    2) Damage to mana is only phyiscal dmg you take and then gain. This happens after everything and excludes elemental.
    3) Maxing ES is suicide. Final level of it with plusses whould be 50-60%
    4) 95% is the cap on ES
    5) Max telekinesis always neccessary if your going ES. If not forget it because of the resist issue dmg reduction issue.

    People, do the math. I spent a week with the figures and here's the findings in short form. Blizzard tricked you!!! Hahaha.

    Wearing a ber'd shako and SS = the same thing. In fact you are better off.

    The kicker is this, pvp is where the TS/ES->DTM->Regen shines. PvM is bad bad bad unless you are an enchantress who cares squat about mana.
     
  9. Wuhan_Clan

    Wuhan_Clan IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Ok I kind of get the idea of what Nevre is hinting at. This is not to be some viable pk character or anything. Instead it will be something like a "technology demonstrator" if I could borrow a term from engineering.

    The point is to see if we can put together a sorc with a high enough lvl energy shield, awesome mana regeneration, awesome resists, awesome dmg reduction, and awesome life regereration, and perhaps awesome poison length red.

    All of the items will be towards reaching this goal. The sorc doesn't need to be able to kill anything. She can have a pally with high lvl meditation to help her. The goal is make this sorc have such incredible defenses that she can tank damage indefitantely in normal mode. (maybe if/when this is demonstrated to be possible, we can work to squeeze in more resists)
     
  10. Nevre

    Nevre IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Thanks toasty. A few questions and comments regarding your above points.
    1) I understand that
    2) Is that to say that Energy Shield does not apply to elemental dmg? Only physical damage?
    3) Suicide? How so? If the information I can find and my own testing is correct, a lvl 40 or so energy shield (maybe less) gives the 95% absorption rate. As you point out in the next point. What do you mean here?
    5) I am aware that telekinesis does something in relation to ES, just not what.
    I was thinking of maxing it anyway.

    Yup, hit the nail on the head right there.

    Anyone want to help me try it out??
     
  11. gummy

    gummy IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    if this is pvm, one hit from a mana burn monster and you're toast.
     
  12. Burnt_toasty

    Burnt_toasty IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    98
    See what gummy wrote? Thats a problem. Also, every elemental attacker will drain your buld with 1-2 hits. You wont last a sustained 30 second confrontation with elemtal attackers.

    DTM is dmg to mana. Term meaning every point of dmg you take you also gain mana back. Im surprised I confused you. This discussion has gone on forver over ES etc and how to create a this super being.

    Why dont you take an old sorc with ES and try it out. the ratio would be 2 to 1 without the telekinesis max so you could multiply your results by 2.
     
  13. Wuhan_Clan

    Wuhan_Clan IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Ok maybe we are in over our heads in that we are expecting the Ultimate Being to be able to simultaneously tank fire/lightning/cold/physical/magical/poison damage. I was thinking more along the lines of each type of damage taking turns attacking the sorc except that no gear can be changed or even weapon switched.

    If you actually read my post you'll see that the sorc will have incredible resists and absorb so it's not going to matter if the energy shield is emptied by elemental attacks. The resists and absorb alone is going to negate all elemental attacks completely. The goal after that is to maintain a quick enough mana regeneration so that while ES is being drained by elemental attacks, it can replenish quick enough to tank physical damage as well. The initial calculation done above indicated that a 267mana/sec rate could be achieved, which should be enough to tank sustained physical damage but not everything at the same time (while ignoring mana burn). A large life replenish rate is also required to regain life lost that isn't tanked by ES.

    If I had the time and resources I would make such a sorc I'm not sure it would be worth doing it.
     
  14. mathil

    mathil IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    i have a bone to pick with burnt_toasty. everything you said is true...if you have max res. if you have -25 res or anything else negative, eshield (being calculated before res) psuedo-replaces res. granted it isnt nearly as effective, but it can be gotten with skill points instead of gear, which is a huge bonus for some.

    also: you will last a 30 second sustained attack against attackers. until you make the sorc and show me it doesn't, i will believe this. and there are boulders that are less stubborn than me. the only possible problem is mana burns. they will give you no mana causing eshield to deactivate. if you simply reactivate it each time, you will be fine.

    quick note: telekinesis reduces the amount of mana taken from eshield. like a lvl 20 eshield has a ratio of 1:.75 a lvl 0 telekinesis has a ratio of 1:2. (life:mana) meaning that:

    with lvl 0 telekinesis:
    -1000 fire dmg
    -50% ES: (500 life, 1000 mana)
    -75 res: (125 life, 1000 mana)
    if you had no ES, you would have taken 250 life

    with lvl 20 telekinesis:
    -1000 fire dmg
    -50% ES: (500 life, 375 mana)
    -75 res: (125 life, 375 mana)
    if you had no ES, you would have taken 250 life
     
  15. [FLS]prozerran

    [FLS]prozerran IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    one major problem is that especially in hell there are a lot of monsters with elemental attack (along with their physical attack, eg. burning archers/burging dead, minion pack from a boss with elemental attack [very common]) whose attack will drain your mana in no time. With a half decent set up (say 600 life and 1000 mana), you can probably stand around 10 hits (typically 200+ dmg from each hit in hell) at the most without backing off. If resist works with ES then this build will actually be quite effective.
     
  16. Jell-O

    Jell-O IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    106
    I guess I could share my experience with this kind of sorc(sort of), I've been thinking about making one before but this thread made me do it.

    I am now level 83 with lvl 32 energy shield, telekinesis and maxed orb with 10 in both icebolt and cold mastery(still can't decide which one to have maxed at lvl 89).
    My life is around 660 and mana in the late 1800's, my resistances are ~20% fire, -15% cold/poison and lightning ~50%.

    Pvm-wise this build is great, lightning enchanteds take no life whatsoever and only a lesser amount of mana, oblivion knights do some damage but not huge(again, low from life, some from mana), souls still hurt quite alot on my mana which causes the shield to wear off and my life go down the drain but my amount of mana still gives me a chance to dodge and get away.
    As some have mentioned, poison is the only thing that really hurts and there's not much to do about that except get some PLR and/or high resist(antidotes work too).
    Physical attackers such as the Minions of Destruction drain very little life and mana so that kind of monster is not harmful at all unless curse/aura.

    I also had a friend try a few full orbs on me and each of them only took about 150 life but around 80% of the manabulb which is quite alot but still much less than the usual vitality-build(as a comparison, his sorc that has lvl 1 base ES and high life/low mana died in one full orb).

    In short, this build is working great for me but the result for others may vary depending on equipment.
     
  17. gummy

    gummy IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Jell-O: as for skills, it's my prefernce to max cold mastery first before ice bolt.

    as for my current hcl sorc her stats are as follows

    max orb
    max cold mastery
    max ice bolt
    max telekinesis
    1 ES

    ~1000 life
    ~800 mana
    75% block
    95/90/80/90 res in hell

    I only have +4 to skills and do hell meph runs with no problem whatsoever getting hit by either physical or elemental attacks... of course I lose some of both bulbs, but that why you have a belt full of pots.

    I always like keeping my life > mana because of the blood mana curse that gets thrown out in act 5.

    imho, maxing ES is not necessary at all.
     

Share This Page