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Soo... should we talk about #GamerGate?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by jmervyn, Sep 26, 2014.

  1. jmervyn

    jmervyn Diabloii.Net Member

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  2. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    So I'm to oppose those who started a sh*tstorm against gamers? I think I'm through that since my usenet days, a time at which you were probably in a liquid state, swimming in daddy's testicles and mum's ovaries. Sorry haters, you are not of the quality to be worth addressing you. Here's something you probably intend to use against gamers yourselves:

    GET A LIFE!

    Twitter, tss tss :rolleyes:

    Regarding the poll: +1 to jmervyn.
     
  3. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    When I heard about #GamerGate all it seemed to be was some kind of pissing contest between a female indie game dev and a journalist or two. So my current opinion on the subject can be summed up thusly:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Dredd

    Dredd D3 Off Topic Moderator

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    From the article:

    Couldn't have said it better myself. I've been mulling over this topic all evening but for the life of me, I don't even know where to start. Should we begin with the doxxing that started this whole mess? The series of insulting articles published on 14 different websites on the very same day declaring that the gamer culture is dead? The allegations of collusion between pro-fem journalists that led to the publication of those articles? The blanket censorship of #GamerGate topics on many, many forums including - of all places - 4chan? Somebody, please be my hero and start us off with a particular bit that we can focus on and then maybe branch out from.

    The far-left social justice crowd is always looking for a fresh teat to latch onto and I suspect they've been emboldened by the positive press that Anita Sarkeesian and her controversial Tropes vs. Women in Videogames series has received - not just by gaming journos, mind you, but also by some game developers and the mainstream media. I think her work is deeply and fundamentally flawed and I find it curious that the media treats her with kid gloves.

    I can't be sure that I'm not projecting but I feel that alot of the anger that made #GamerGate "into a thing" is fueled by the cloud of white-knighting, censorship and marginalization of criticism that has been hovering over Anita's work since the Tropes series began.
     
  5. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Found this which seems to sum up each side in the whole mess fairly well, as far as I can tell: http://www.littletinyfrogs.com/article/457868/Gamergate_Escalates


    The #GamerGate Points include:


    • They think the gaming media is corrupt. Specifically, they think that gaming journalism is a clique that chooses what to cover and how to spin it based on their shared politics and relationships.
    • They think the big publishers buy positive coverage outright and that the little indies sleep/schmooze their way to positive coverage.
    • They are outraged at having their criticism misrepresented as misogyny
    • They strongly object to having their movement characterized based on the misbehavior of a tiny group of trolls and jerks.
    • They are angry that attempts to discuss the topic get blocked, censored, deleted, etc.
    • They are outraged at what they see as collusion in the gaming media openly attacking gamers as a bunch of “nerds” “gamers are dead” “basement dwellers”, etc.
    • They have evidence demonstrating double standards in how the gaming media treats different issues based on their politics
    • They believe that the gaming media has become infested by “Social Justice Warriors” who are using their platforms to jam their politics down the throats of people who just want to read about video games.
    The opponents of #gamergate points include:

    • Any legitimate points the #gamergate movement might have had are far outweighed by the harassment and threats against outspoken women in the industry that is done in the name of #gamergate
    • They (gaming media) are outraged at being called corrupt
    • They (gaming media) are upset at the suggestion that the gaming media has some sort of organized conspiracy
    • They (general) believe gamers are inherently insular and want to shout down any attempts at reforming it.
    • They (general) believe gamers are entitled and thin-skinned, unable to show empathy or accept even mild criticism of their hobby.
    • They (gaming media) are angry that their entire profession is being mischaracterized based on poor choices made by a few
    • They (general) are very skeptical of new #gamergate claims because of the misrepresentations made during early claims
    • They believe that the “sane” people who support #gamergate are being used/tricked by the vile, misogynist core that is at the heart of #gamergate
    Now, IMO, the first two pro-#GamerGate points are something that's been suspected for years. Goes back well into the '90s at least. The outrage at being mischaracterized and censored is completely understandable. The semi-solid evidence is something new, at least publicly. As for the SJWs, yeah, you can see it being a regular trend in many articles. The Escapist had a web comic playing on this very thing. You can even see them get tripped up and go all frothy mouthed if you look at release day-ish reviews for something like Duke Nukem Forever.

    As for the anti-#GamerGate side, we see a lot of the same problem politicians face on a regular basis. The first point and the last two are fair enough, but still don't diminish the seriousness of the legitimate pro-#GamerGate points.

    "They (gaming media) are outraged at being called corrupt. They (gaming media) are upset at the suggestion that the gaming media has some sort of organized conspiracy. They (general) believe gamers are inherently insular and want to shout down any attempts at reforming it. They (general) believe gamers are entitled and thin-skinned, unable to show empathy or accept even mild criticism of their hobby."


    All of which they apparently discussed together at length in their secret organized mailing list so they could decide what information gets released when and how as well as how best to censor the criticism leveled against them. :rolleyes:

    "They (gaming media) are angry that their entire profession is being mischaracterized based on poor choices made by a few."

    A fair point were it not for the fact that these few are major players in the industry. Not unlike how a town mayor might be upset that his political party is being mischaracterized based on the poor choices of a few when those few happen to be the majority of congress and those choices are having wide reaching, highly detrimental effects.
     
  6. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    Pretty fair assessment from Glurin from what little I've skimmed from all of this.

    "They think the gaming media is corrupt. Specifically, they think that gaming journalism is a clique that chooses what to cover and how to spin it based on their shared politics and relationships."

    This is essentially how commodity journalism works, everywhere. Cars, motorcycles, TVs, computers, fridges, holiday travel and, uh, every single other commercial enterprise on the planet. Anyone denying this is new to the planet Earth and should be isolated for scientific study.

    "They think the big publishers buy positive coverage outright ..."

    Well, duh.

    "... and that the little indies sleep/schmooze their way to positive coverage."

    Interesting tidbit, but a healthy scepticism is needed unless there's evidence for this practice.

    There rest looks like outrageous outrageousness to me but then, I am struggling to locate my care face to look any further.
     
  7. Noodle

    Noodle Moderator

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    Let me guess:

    "I'm offended!"

    "Not as offended as I am!"

    "You're repressing me by not celebrating how offended I am!"

    "Your accusing me of repressing you is offensive!"

    <yawn>
     
  8. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Uhm, I regret the testicles and ovaries part of my previous posting a bit. My point was to say something once and that's it.
     
  9. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Close. Apparently the second party really did repress the first by exercising the digital equivalent of black bagging any and all discussion of the subject, followed up with a coordinated insult and mischaracterization of the entire community. One could pass off the discussion blackout as standard M.O. for gaming sites with a "No politics." policy, but the follow up puts an entirely different light on the subject.

    To put this in a different perspective, imagine yourself going to a restaurant after work only to be stopped by the greeter who says there's a dress code and the shirt you're wearing doesn't work with it. No problem, right? The restaurant just wants to be a little more upscale than your average biker bar and you can just go home and change your shirt. But as you're walking away, the greeter yells that your spouse looks like the hind end of a horse and you're entire family is too stupid and poor to appreciate the food anyway. Suddenly that dress code takes on a whole new meaning. At this point, you call the greeter an arrogant asshole and he becomes offended by your accusation. That's pretty much where things stand at the moment, as far as the outrage angle is concerned.
     
  10. jmervyn

    jmervyn Diabloii.Net Member

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    Apparently that WAS the case in the original scenario. A developer-skank indulging in what amounts to prostitution shouldn't make anyone's mind explode, but I suspect a certain amount of anti-slut-shaming crusading by the SJW types.

    The "Anyone can sex anything without fear, shame, or risk!" position leads to asking why is prostitution illegal?



    My two complaints are likely obvious to those who have read my older posts. First, that trade magazines coordinate their actions & articles - but anyone who didn't realize that the Journolist scandal is standard operating procedure is deluding themselves.

    Second, that SJW types have the unmitigated gall to make such claims. Again, the only people who don't realize that such behavior is fascist/progressive are probably the ones perpetrating it. There was actually a "conversation" (i.e. totalitarian attempt) not so long ago involving Spider-Woman and her well-shaped ass. Much of the outcry had to do with the (erotic) artist posing her with arms spread, butt up - despite this being a pose which the original Spidey is constantly drawn in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2014
  11. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    Heh.

    Double-standards. That implies there are two more standards than I thought journalists capable of.
     
  12. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Because they want to legalize pot first. What good is legalizing prostitution if you can't get high enough to make the only prostitute you can afford look attractive? :p
     
  13. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    Good point, Glurin, but Beer Goggles work just as well.
     
  14. jmervyn

    jmervyn Diabloii.Net Member

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    Seriously though - this particular "developer" (Chelsea Van Valkenburg) was sleeping around to promote her (supposedly quite sub-par) indie product. Why is that considered so extraordinarily unethical, aside from the fact of prostitution equivalency? It's unfair advantage, but is the marketplace supposed to <prevent> unfair advantage, or just ensure that it's not illegal?

    Some SJW types will go so far as to assert that marriage has the same sort of equivalency; the woman offering her body in exchange for service/finance. Perhaps theirs is the assertion that the "developer" did nothing wrong? The only thing I've found that has any scent of misogyny are the comments about Valkenburg's looks, and even that's just being a nasty sexist rather than an actual case of woman-hatred. You can hear the boyfriend, "Mundane Matt" with the original comments on a YouTube clip if you have the stomach for it (plus a pic of Valkenburg in a revealing costume).

    Plus, why is it misogyny to recognize that Ms. Valkenburg was sleeping around to promote her product? That's not "hatred" of a woman, or even a so-called "hate-fact"; using sex for economical advantage happens all the time. I remember a copier sales-woman in Philadelphia... of course, Gov't contracts don't allow for the seller to "go the extra mile" and as soon as she realized the sale would be drawn up she never returned. Maybe if I'd been in Congress...
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  15. jmervyn

    jmervyn Diabloii.Net Member

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    What, nobody's going to shout me down about "sex as a weapon"? Oh well.

    PopeHat is always a great site (spoiler #3 is Kulturkampf):
    Gamer Gate: Three Stages to Obit
     
  16. nurman

    nurman Diabloii.Net Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Dredd

    Dredd D3 Off Topic Moderator

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    I was mildly surprised that this topic didn't spark much discussion. I've been following #gamergate rather obsessively since the initial doxxing. Shouldn't be surprising considering I've been a life-long gamer (this may also expose my bias).

    Surprised I missed this. Mundane Matt is not "the boyfriend". He's just a youtuber who makes frequent videos on the Gamergate topic (amongst other geek-culture related things). Personally, I'm terribly fond of the guy - strikes me as a bit of an opportunist and ideologue at times.

    If you're interested in youtubers who have proven to be excellent voices on the pro-side, I'd recommend checking out Thunderf00t, InternetAristocrat, Sargon of Akkad, The Justicar, Shoe0nHead, and any videos by Christina Hoff Sommers (who hosts the Factual Feminist series) at the American Enterprise Institute channel. Feminism plays a strong role in this shitstorm, so you'll notice they have alot of feminist videos as well. They are worth watching.

    If you're more interested in the anti-side, just go to any major media website and look for gaming articles or check out their forums (it's really that easy). That side pretty much dominates the discussion as far as mainstream exposure goes.

    Interesting article, by the way. Might post about it when I've had a chance to fully absorb the content. It's the weekend though, so... :x
     
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  18. jmervyn

    jmervyn Diabloii.Net Member

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    So you can tell how terribly interested I was in the original topic. One of the things that either this article or one of the others that I'd run across is that Van Valkenburg is more than a little opportunistic, given that she apparently was promoting "Depressionquest" (?) on the heels of a celebrity suicide. Not that there's anything wrong with that... er, maybe?

    I don't know that the media is completely in the tank against the gamers; I think they're a bit mystified by the whole thing. However, just as with the "SpiderWoman pr0n pic" issue, there's some reflexive siding with the shrill tones coming from the left side.

    We haven't had any true Social Justice Warriors hereabouts since Llad12 and a few of the others, but it seems to me like there's a lot of having & eating cake involved. Not exactly the same vein, but the media has been having giggling fits over Bristol Palin getting man-handled (literally) in a large drunken brawl; it's always surprising how unidirectional sympathy and shame are expected to flow.

    I'd have thought nobody is smelling like roses in all this.
     
  19. Ariadne

    Ariadne Diabloii.Net Member

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    No.
    Because we all know what way that discussion will go, resembling the title of a program that is broadcast at 17.15 on BBC1 every weekday.
     
  20. jmervyn

    jmervyn Diabloii.Net Member

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    I no longer even receive BBC America! I'm unsure which interrogative you meant, but let me guess the show - is it this?
     

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