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Something more thoughtful then BoE.

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Doppel, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    The reason Blizzard stated to include Bind on Equip (BoE) items is to "remove high-end items from the economy". All this does however is reduce people's incentive to actually use high-end items or incorporate them into their builds.
    Instead of finding such a rare item and wanting to make a build around it they'll just trade it off anyways, except if the item happens to be absolutely perfect for their build i guess. Point being, i don't suspect making them BoE will do anything more then making them undesirable to equip (UoE) except if you just have to have that particular item, which then means you'll likely traded for one anyways.
    Lets take a Griffon's Eye for example. I don't usually play Lightning Fury Amazon's or Lightning based Sorceresses so i've never traded for one, but finding a Griffon's Eye would at least spark my interest in making such a build. At least the decision wouldn't be based on whether the item is BoE or not. If it would be BoE then honestly i wouldn't bother and thus not even TRY using it. I think this would suck much of the fun and mystery and wonder out of the game.

    Anyways, my suggestion would be to first not make such items BoE (obviously).
    What could be done with such rare items though is making hem "connect" to your character. What i mean is, for a price (or quest reward) you can "connect" (personalize) such an item to your character. What this would do is make the item reach its full potential in power. (this doesn't mean the item becomes automatically perfect though)
    For example, Griffon's Eye UNconnected to any character could have - 10-15% to enemies resistance and + 5-10% to lightning skill damage, connected the item increases in power and becomes - 15-20% and + 10-15%. Any character could use it at will but if you want the item to reach its full potential you need to "connect" it to one of your characters. If you later decide to trade it off you can still do this, but unconnecting it (making it blank again for another character or person to use) will also have its cost. I think with such a system people will still feel as if they can use such items at will but with an added element for those who want to really dedicate their character to using such an item at its full potential. If you find a Griffon's Eye which is slightly better then the connected one you're using (it has 1 more defense or something rather trivial) then it's up to you whether you want to pay the price in switching your current one with the one you found (perfectionists) or not bother and just put it up for trade instead. If you don't have a Griffon's Eye yet you might be interested in making a build around it, if you really enjoy this new build using Griffon's Eye then you can connect it to your character for a prize, if you don't like this new build you don't have to connect it and you can still trade it away.

    What are your thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010
  2. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    So you do want BoE, but only if it makes a powerful item even more powerful. There is no incentive to not connect with the char, and this functions the exact same way BoE already does.






    Your point also assumes too much about people.


    Being perfect would certainly be preferred when the item is bound, but never necessary. Those who aren't top market players would be glad to have a low Griffons, or CoA, etc.

    You in particular might not be inspired to make a char if you find a godly high level, but do you honestly think that reflects everyone's view?


    You also assume BoE cannot be taken off, regardless of adding that feature in your example. We don't know if that's true or not. Your system is functionally the exact same + the possibility of swapping out items.




    One feature I do like is the "personalize" part. Just like the Anya quest, anything bound to us can have or char's name.




    Take a SPer for example. They can't always get the most perfect lvl 85+ item. They can get one, eventually, but waiting for the perfect is more time consuming, and they'd have several copies before then.

    If they had one, even imperfect, they'd use it. This applies to self found Bnet players, or those without funds to buy top notch gear. It gives a feeling of ownership. Like That person earned it or got just what they wanted via trade.
     
  3. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    I love you Sass.

    Wrong. Try again.

    Exactly my point. People who are "top market" will gladly pay the price to "bound an item" and/or search/pay for the "perfect ones" whereas others will at least have the opportunity to use such items if they find them and trade them off if it doesn't suit them. So what exactly did i assume wrong?

    Wut?

    I never assumed such a thing neither is it relevant, lrn2reed and comprehend.

    Exactly, you see you're writing down the dots, but seem to fail at connecting them. People WILL want to make use of self found items, yet with a BoE policy will feel cheated because what if they find a better BoE item and want to sell off the inferior one, or they come to the conclusion the particular BoE item doesn't suit their playstyle at all, or they find out its a highly sought after PvP item yet they only play PvM, etc,... With my system they are FREE to use whatever items they find WITHOUT any artificial and unfair consequences. They are FREE to decide whether to use them in their current state or dedicate them to a character by paying to "personalizing" (connecting, bounding) them. They are FREE to keep using them on their current character or pay to "unpersonalize" (unconnect, unbound) them and use them on another character or put them up for trade. They are FREE to try them on a character to then decide whether or not they like it and want to personalize it. etc,... I don't see how this is anywhere as blunt and stupid and unthoughtful as a BoE policy, not even BoE where you can pay to unbind them. (because its STILL Bind on Equip and everyone is a noob when they first play the game)


     
  4. ShadoutMapes

    ShadoutMapes Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    As for trying out your newfound items, how about having a timer (for example 2 hours) on newly equipped items, before they bind to you.
    Gives you some time to test if you want to use it.

    Having two tiers of an item, depending on whether it is bound or not, complicated the system and affects balancing a great deal imo, with very little to gain from it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2010
  5. eightbithero

    eightbithero Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    If it is actually Bind to Account and not pure Bind on Equip then I dont care at all, this will stop the overflow of high level items, keeping the higher value items more valuable for longer. The system works in WoW and im sure a fairly simular system wold be able to work in D3 (popular or not)
     
  6. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    As far as i know it is bind to account, and it binds when you equip. And thinking it will stop the overflow of high level items is highly naive, i can guarantee you that it won't stop anything apart from people wanting to try out items they found in fear that they might **** themselves by bounding a highly valuable item which turns out to be useless to whatever builds/characters they like to play.

    And i have to be honest, that timer idea is sickly stupid. Blizzard is going to time how long i can play around with a legit found item before i ruin it as a trade opportunity? Hell no. And what is so complicated about a few very rare legendary items having two tiers? One for general play and testing and another for dedicated use.
     
  7. ShadoutMapes

    ShadoutMapes Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    I don't think they have confirmed it will be Bind to Account yet. Though it will be quite silly if it doesn't happen.

    Sure, you will still be limited that way. The intend of BoE is put limits on what you can do with an item.

    Multiple tiers of an item complicates things without achieving anything.
    If the bound item isn't significantly stronger than the unbound, very few will bind it (= the BoE system wouldn't change much at all). If it is significantly stronger then why would you use the unbound item instead of a totally different item which is either worth less (but still superior in its bound form compared to the higher lvl unbound item) or simply use an item with no BoE restriction at all.


     
  8. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    [​IMG]

    And since you claim the analysis was wrong, perhaps explain?

    Your system skill binds, but assumes the player requires incentive. When assuming this, you neglect to add that your incentive's method removes the incentive to not do it (who would want less damage simply because the item has the "bound" property?).

    If I can have an extra 5% res pierce by not being able to equip another until I pay...I'll take it! In a competitive environment, others will too, and we'll all be bound--just like BoE.



    The difference is the item strength. Right now, we don't know how godly the highest levels are yet.





    You assume that people will never equip a low Griffon because of BoE. A low to mid wealth person who finds one won't hesitate to equip one (assuming of course, the build even needs it) even if it binds. You also neglect to allow for any removal system, regardless of it existing in your system.


    People will equip even a low roll if that's the best they'll get for a long time. With unbinding possible, they can upgrade if / when they get better funds.


    Just this weekend, I chatted with an old neighbor who plays WoW and he mentioned trading "soulbound" items. Upgrading is easily within reach regardless of BoE.



    Learn 2 be consistent.

    You assume people will not equip BoE unless they are perfect (or near, but point is not a junk good item), and that you cannot remove it (you give zero indication you acknowledge this). Yet, your example system says they will, and that you can unequip. You are seemingly unaware of the double standard here.



    Wrong. It is possible to upgrade. If they can / want to, them go right ahead. There's no reason unbind will be functionally different than unconnect (both with cost to dissuade wonton unequiping). Rather than allow the possibility, you're the one with missing connections.


    I see exactly what you did there.

    By slapping caps lock on "free", you give the impression that your system allows freedom of choice, and that the alternative does not.


    This is false.



    Both your system and Blizzard's system allow BoE and unequipping. Both have a cost to remove, yours just costs to BoE. Blizzard's system has full freedom of choice, and yours only has an incentive to pay to BoE. This is regardless of quality, but concerns only "what you can afford"--the rich bind the perfect, and the poor bind the next best thing.
     
  9. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    I don't understand what it is you're talking about as you seem to be arguing against arguments you yourself made up.
    The system i propose is quite simple:
    -Firstly, nothing auto bounds ever.
    -Secondly, you never need to bound.
    -Thirdly, you can bound at a cost.
    -Fourthly, in doing so the item receives a small balanced boost in power.
    -Fifthly, the item never looses its trade value as you can unbound at a cost.

    Of course, you will want to bound yourself to whatever best items you find, duh. But maybe before you do you wish to try the item out before you bound.
    This isn't the same as bounding to whatever items you happen to equip. Yes?

    How is this even remotely relevant?

    Nope. I said that if i found a Griffon (regardless of it being a low roll or not) i would trade if off if it was a BoE item as i would like its tradevalue more then being interested in building a lighting amazon or whatever. If it weren't to be BoE i would at least consider building a character around it, if it still doesn't suite me then no biggie.

    Yep. And what if assuming the build doesn't need it, or assuming that the player doesn't really know how to build or what items favor their build?

    You think Blizzard will force BoE on us then allow for an UnBoE? Lulz, what drugs are you on?

    Err, that's the point of my system as opposed to BoE?!? Why are you even arguing against me?

    Did you like read Blizzard's statements on why they want to include BoE in Diablo's economy?

    You can't be serious.

    Lolwut?

    I never said it isn't possible to upgrade you fool, leern2reed, srly.

    I see what you did there. Replying with "false" isn't an argument and your lack of anything refuting my statements, whether they were made in capslock or not, shows you don't even have a clue where to begin.

    Unequipping? Get off crack please. Where did i claim BoE doesn't allow us to unequip items? Somehow you put it in your head i'm assuming we won't be able to take off a BoE item from our characters. You don't even know what we're talking about do you?


     
  10. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    Okay, you are extremely inconsistent, and your contradictions said the same thing I did...





    Nothing about this was relevant to what you quoted. All you did was say what I said you said.



    Of course it isn't the same. It also isn't relevant.


    If it's a high level item and the mods match your build goals, you can try it, BoE or not. Binding may make some reluctant, but that won't apply to all.



    If you make the items better, you only hurt yourself by not binding. If you equip it anyway, it's like saying no to free damage or whatever mod it is.

    You make it so that all items would end up bound anyway. We don't know if end game items need to be boosted or not, so this system still has to balance around them binding.

    The end result is the same as Blizz's BoE system.



    That's what I said...

    You also extended your opinion to everyone when explaining it.




    That...wasn't a complete thought...

    If it doesn't suit the build (say...a smiter), then they wouldn't have equipped it, so no binding. People can experiment still, and they'll naturally be reluctant. Regardless of bind, people will use even a low one if they want / need to.

    Your system does. Your "optional feature" is a guaranteed bind.



    Because you insist I'm wrong while you say the exact same thing, and the parts that are different is you failing to see how you result in exactly what BoE is doing now.



    You implied it, which is incorrect. If you can upgrade easily, you wouldn't feel cheated. ;) Your choice of words makes it seems upgrading wont' happen and that you have to essentially just deal with it.



    100%. You have some neat ideas sometimes, but you really need to learn how to discuss anything. Pulling extremes, siding with the other and making it seem like it's an opposite view, illogical progressions, dismissing rebuttals as "not refuting", etc are not going to help you.




    I not only did refute the point, I did call you out on your tactic. Rather than defend your system, you attacked the other.

    Your point was a freedom of choice. I most certainly did refute your assertion that you were the only one with freedom, which was what you implied via said capslock.


    If you were simply unaware of the subtleties of language, that's fine. I'm simply pointing out what you tell the reader and whether or not it's true.



    A part of your system, which opposes Blizz's:
    You imply Blizz's system does not unbind by saying that your system is the one that does.


    You even go so far as to call me a druggy for suggesting it:
    Yet you can go on and act as if you were all for it all along.


    Did I mention consistency? How's foot taste?
     
  11. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    No, not okay Sass. "...your contradictions said the same thing i did...", have any idea how wrong that sentence is?

    Because what i quoted made zero logical sense. And how is explaining my suggestion to someone who appears to be not that bright irrelevant in my own thread?

    So my refutal that they aren't the same isn't relevant to your claim that they are? Arguing against you is ****ing surreal you know.

    I never claimed you can't try it, so again you're arguing against yourself. Bye now.

    Then you bind, kays. Everyone more sensible and intelligent then you wanting to have a feel of an item before they make the decision to bind can do just that, be more sensible and intelligent then you.

    No **** captain obvious.

    Wow... talk about being inconsistent, remember this: "Of course it isn't the same."

    You lie, what you said was: "You assume that people will never equip a low Griffon because of BoE." Liars can **** off.

    What opinion? I spoke about what i would do in if i found a particular item and how it being BoE or not would affect that decision.

    Why make people reluctant to try out a cool new item they found just because they have to keep in mind an untoughtful and stupid system disallowing them to sell off an item as soon as they equip it? And you expect everyone to know exactly what they want/need the first few times they played the game?

    What? My system does what? What my "optional feature"? What are you talking about?
    My question was, "You think Blizzard will force BoE on us then allow for an UnBoE?". You failed to answer the question. No, that's wrong, you didn't even attempt at answering the question.

    "The parts that are different are the same". You are the master of making sense. Why do i even bother, i'm talking to a wall here.

    No i didn't imply it. You completely fail at comprehending sentences properly. Can't help you.

    "Upgrading" to a better item won't UnBoE the previous item (you completely disregard this), so you're left with having to salvage those or whatever. In essence that means its a fact that i am right and you are wrong.

    You must be kidding. There's a difference between being nuanced and inconsistent.

    What tactic? Capslocking a word as to show its significance within a sentence? Omg, internet police arrest me. You didn't refute a single statement i made.

    I implied i was the only one with freedom as i capslocked the word "free"? AHAHAHA, i lol'ed, hard. Good one Sass.

    In the case the reader is illiterate i am truly sorry, but i can't help you.

    So your suggestion is that Blizzard's BoE policy isn't Blizzard's BoE policy, and therefor my suggestion is irrelevant. And you wonder why i call you a druggy?
    Get back to me when Blizzard announces we can in fact unbound bound items, which will be never, incidentally that would also suite me just fine.

    Don't bother replying to me as I have nothing more to say to you, you clearly do not understand English sufficiently enough nor even try at comprehending and correctly interpreting my suggestions, arguments and sentences/words.. Sorry, i can't help you understand the concept of a valid argument either. Replying to your faulty interpretations of the simply literal meaning of words and sentences is highly frustrating. But maybe that's what you were going for.


     
  12. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Something more thoughtful then BoE.

    Again, thanks for saying what I've been saying, yet taking an opposing view to your own suggestion.




    Your system brings no solution to binding. It's just a way to make them more powerful while not affecting usage. When they're all bound (you admit to this), there aren't any weaker by comparison. It's the exact same as if there was no boost and all were bound.





    Also, you constantly claim I didn't refute any points. You need to read the words over again.
     

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