Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

[Thrakhath]

Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

I've been reading posts on this forum for a while now, and felt I wanted to put across a different point of view.

Most posters here seem to have played mainly on battle.net before this, but I think that the majority of people who bought diablo II probably did not do this. People who do not like online play often do not like online forums, and so their views are not really defended here.

I do not like playing the game with people I do not know, and many friends I've spoken to feel the same way. Random player-killing, intense competition for item drops and a very steep learning curve in PVP do not make battle.net appeal to new players much either.

I played Diablo II firstly as a singleplayer game. For those who played on battle.net only, getting items on singleplayer was incredibly difficult and this made the game extremely hard. I finished Hell difficulty wearing chain gloves and chain boots, having never seen an Amn rune. I'm sick of reading comments about how players can finish all three difficulties in a day, or about how the game is too easy, or about how some items in Diablo III should be as rare as Zod runes from D2. These do not reflect the experience of a massive chunk of the player base.

After playing singleplayer for a while, I spent a lot more time playing LAN games with my brothers. We would only play when all three of us could play together, we would design characters that complemented each other, we would share items out so that whoever needed them most got them. We even split items so that one character carried runes, one gems, one spare potions, etc. For me Diablo was never a competitive game, and I feel many comments here about what Diablo was about are again ignoring a large chunk of the playerbase. Multiplayer to me was always about co-operation, fighting over equipment with allies is something I'm glad is removed.

Feel I've rambled quite a lot now, thanks and well done if you're still reading. Rant over.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

It just seems to me that you will love Diablo 3. Singleplayer will be in (why it wouldnt?) and the MP is now focused around cooperation (no more PK and everyone get their own drops, no more competition to get the drops).

From your post I believe that D3 is heading to a direction that will enjoy very much.

Btw its true that singleplayer and LAN play was far more safe to play than the cesspol that is Diablo 2 in Battle.net but thats why a big focus need to be done to ensure a better community now, Singleplayer is a given to work and be great as long as the game is great as well and knowning blizzard, they will do things right.

No need to feel that the SP community is forgotten, its just that Diablo2 MP was such a mess that it required a lot of focus to fix it and its usually the top topics of discussion here.

 

[sbn]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

I would also concur that D3 may just be the game for you, and players like you, who got turned off of playing MP. In fact it sounds like you played D2 the way it was intended, just not how it unfortunately turned out. Thankfully D3 is going to correct a lot of the flaws.

One sad note regarding this quote:

we would design characters that complemented each other

I have always felt that this was how it was meant to be, but unfortunately the community at large felt differently. Having a game with 3 Paladins and 4 Sorcs was redundant. Yet having a game with 1x Barb, 1x Necro, 1x Sorc, 1x Druid, 2x Amazons, 2x Paladins, you would easily see how the characters not only compliment each other, but also how efficiently you could play the game without having the uber elite items.

Take a ladder reset as the best example. Try playing through with a game full of useless Meteor sorcs just to see how long it will take before everyone leaves. Extreme example I know, but the point is I have long desired to see a system that does not enforce variety, but does provide incentives.

 

[Lazarus II]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

Thanks for this post. You expressed the exact same feelings and experiences as I have and had. I guess that's why I don't fully understand many of the complaints coming in. The number one problem I had with Diablo 2 was the difficulty to find rare and unique items in SP, and if you found one, it was often something that you didn't need for your character. I guess that was charming in a way, but it could have been tweaked just a little bit. It seems that gave the MP players a slight advantage. I know there are programs to fix that, such as trading, but I generally want to play by the rules so to speak.

 

[hubb]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

I played Diablo II firstly as a singleplayer game. For those who played on battle.net only, getting items on singleplayer was incredibly difficult and this made the game extremely hard. I finished Hell difficulty wearing chain gloves and chain boots, having never seen an Amn rune. I'm sick of reading comments about how players can finish all three difficulties in a day, or about how the game is too easy, or about how some items in Diablo III should be as rare as Zod runes from D2. These do not reflect the experience of a massive chunk of the player base.

****ing exactly! Luckily Blizzard don't seem ignorant of this and, like Kiroptus said, b.net will be a better place to be. Congrats on putting forth our view so eloquently :thumbup:

 

[KTang]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

Despite always being a Multiplayer myself, I actually really liked your post.

As someone said earlier, complementing classes is exactly right. I myself have always been a solo player, but I really do enjoy playing with friends (not so much randomers, but thats how you make friends in the first place ) and I like mfing with my friends to work hard to find items. I think fighting over drops is definately a pain in the ***, and I personally NEVER just grab grab grab.

Well, not much more to say in the matter other than I don't know many players who wouldn't agree with you, especially when you word it like that so...well said really.

KT

 

[RogueJuggalo]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

I finished Hell difficulty wearing chain gloves and chain boots, having never seen an Amn rune.

What? Are you exaggerating? I've found dozens of amn runes on SP. Gear isn't that hard to come across on SP. I've been leveling my SP sorc by killing NM countess since level 40 and I've found enough runes to make Stealth armor, Rhyme shield, and I have dozens of amns/sols/rals for crafting later... not to mention several hels/ios/dols. I'm level 51 now and every peice of gear I'm wearing is an exceptional rare.

 

[kreeper]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

What? Are you exaggerating? I've found dozens of amn runes on SP. Gear isn't that hard to come across on SP. I've been leveling my SP sorc by killing NM countess since level 40 and I've found enough runes to make Stealth armor, Rhyme shield, and I have dozens of amns/sols/rals for crafting later... not to mention several hels/ios/dols. I'm level 51 now and every peice of gear I'm wearing is an exceptional rare.

I have to 2nd this guy, thats pretty much my same set up and a lore helm. I have found around 4 uniques now and a few set items. None really that great or viable but still nice to see. Im only level 43 in nightmare with my druid however. I think a matter of how you experienced the game as being so hard is do to the fact that you didn't learn to play it well, no offense, but online play definately brings out alot of new effective playing skills.

 

[hubb]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

Skills like what? Boss runs?

 

[slimeball9999]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

It just seems to me that you will love Diablo 3. Singleplayer will be in (why it wouldnt?) and the MP is now focused around cooperation (no more PK and everyone get their own drops, no more competition to get the drops).

Except, D3 is (mistakenly) omitting LAN play. So a lot of us (we are many) who fit the original poster's demographic won't really care for it that much. Yes, we'll have single player -- but we won't have any multiplayer at all, because B.net is and always will be a cesspool, no matter what they do. Sometimes, for example, someone wants to play with their favorite older version. Or someone wants to play on the LAN with their friends when Internet isn't around, or without lag, or logon queues, or without having to have a username and password and all that tracking and achievements BS...

...and I've found enough runes to make Stealth armor, Rhyme shield, and I have dozens of amns/sols/rals for crafting later...

Do you realize that there's NOTHING in the game that tells you runewords? Runewords are basically an online-exclusively thing. If someone never thought of looking them up, they'd never even know there are others there than the ONE the game gives you.

 

[RogueJuggalo]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

Do you realize that there's NOTHING in the game that tells you runewords? Runewords are basically an online-exclusively thing. If someone never thought of looking them up, they'd never even know there are others there than the ONE the game gives you.

The same thing applies to Horadric Cube recipes. I dunno bout you, but when I found out about rune words (and when I got the cube for the very first time) my first instinct was to google them to find out more. Same thing applies to everything else I wonder about too.

 

[blikst]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

The same thing applies to Horadric Cube recipes. I dunno bout you, but when I found out about rune words (and when I got the cube for the very first time) my first instinct was to google them to find out more. Same thing applies to everything else I wonder about too.

Me too, but you got to agree that he has got a point. Such relevant game mechanism's should have some sort of in-game "guides". Lets say that you for some reason haven't got a internet connection, how would you look it up then? Random trials perhaps? *shudder*

 

[Flux]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

Most posters here seem to have played mainly on battle.net before this, but I think that the majority of people who bought diablo II probably did not do this. People who do not like online play often do not like online forums, and so their views are not really defended here.

Others have tackled the rest of your post, but this part caught my eye. It's definitely true, in my experience running and partaking in fansites. The people reading a fansite, especially this far in advance of a game, are not a fair sample of the eventual game playing population. That's true for everything, of course; people who follow movies during development, or obsess over future models of cars, etc. It's a self-selected, narrow slice of the eventual demographic pie.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just a fact of who has time/interest to devote to a product long before it actually exists. Sites about games become VASTLY more popular as the games approach release. I've seen it happen many times; we thought Diabloii.net was pretty busy during the year leading up to the game, and then once the beta was announced site traffic increased about 20x overnight, and it kept shooting up right through the release. Even the beta-interested people are a fairly small subset of the eventual total game-playing population.

I'd think that developers would know enough to keep this in mind. They want to respond to the comments by the hardcore fans, but they know that we're a tiny % of the total long term player population. This requires them to engage in a balancing act; throwing us fanboys enough bones to keep us content, while not sacrificing their overall design vision.

At least that's how it should work; in reality it's fairly obvious that developers are swayed by the forum chatter, even though they know the opinions there expressed are from the most vocal, most full-time players. For example, look at the continuing content in MMOs and other RPGs. It's always disproportionately high end. The small % of players with multiple maxed out characters are the ones who make most of the noise in forums, and thus the tweaks in games and especially the added content is all for the end game. Look at the new stuff in every WoW expansion and patch, look at the items and quests that have been added in d2x patches, etc.


So am I saying that the d3 designers should ignore what their most passionate, but often myopic, fans say at this point, for the greater good of the game? ... um, sort of?

 

[Ishtor]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

hello, i will say this. I did like this point of view, it was refreshing. Blizzard is trying to fix the online issue, having single player for thos who do not have away to play online, but making it to where if you can play online there is only upside in doing so. Playing single player offline, i find it to be harder. But being a player who has played on battle net, does give me an edge over those who have not play on it. My stand is if you want to play, play online, you still can play by yourself but also have the chose to play with other people.

@slimeball9999
i never had a login que playing d2. I like battle.net to me it a more secure way to play, even though there is still hacking, it is no way near as bad as it is offline, playing lan play. Playing offline is almost pointless now adays unless that is the only way you can play, and to me is why they still have the fature, because there are still some people that cant play online.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

I like battle.net to me it a more secure way to play, even though there is still hacking, it is no way near as bad as it is offline, playing lan play.

Are you sure?
Or are you only considering those services Garena-style and forgetting all of us who play LAN with their friends in the weekends or are regular LAN-party goers?

Playing offline is almost pointless now adays unless that is the only way you can play,

Can definitely argue against this since I play offline exclusively (except for LAN with friends) and never found that pointless. So I suggest you reevaluate that statement. Perhaps you are just not following what other people are doing. The vast majority of people in fact, judging from game sales figures against online presence. I suggest you read Flux post above yours again. It speaks exactly of the wrong perception of reality a community can give.

 

[Jcakes]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

I think a matter of how you experienced the game as being so hard is do to the fact that you didn't learn to play it well, no offense, but online play definately brings out alot of new effective playing skills.

I have to disagree with this, I started DII by playing online, all I learnt from online play was to rush to hell and sit in baal runs until i could equip my end game gear.
I switched from online play to offline and actually played through the game and to I developed new skills, I.E the ability to use defensive skills such as the barbarians taunt.

Playing offline is almost pointless now adays unless that is the only way you can play,

I live in Australia and to play on Bnet servers I will regularly have >400ms of lag. I would much rather play TCP/IP with my friends and have 20ms of lag. This is especially important when we play HC.

 

[Ishtor]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

Are you sure?
Or are you only considering those services Garena-style and forgetting all of us who play LAN with their friends in the weekends or are regular LAN-party goers?

Can definitely argue against this since I play offline exclusively (except for LAN with friends) and never found that pointless. So I suggest you reevaluate that statement. Perhaps you are just not following what other people are doing. The vast majority of people in fact, judging from game sales figures against online presence. I suggest you read Flux post above yours again. It speaks exactly of the wrong perception of reality a community can give.

Ok here is how i figure it, you dislike battle net because it not single player, but you play lan so you can play with outher people. I can play with my friends all the time with out being in the room with eachother while we talk on ventrillo or skype.

Somthing happens, your computer crashes, you just lost all your charcter and hard work, while if you play on b net you reinstall diablo, jump on b net and all your charecters are there.

To me lan play for is a thing of the past, now that the internet is in mostly everyhome, and you can play with your friends and more people easily all the time with an option they give you. This to me is a lot more convenient, i dont have to pick up pack my pc up, cary it over to a friends basement, squeeze in a room with 8 other people, instead i can sit in my on home, in my own seat and can jump right on and play. You still can have your friends over, but not forced to only be able to play with them when there 4 feet away from you.

appearantly blizzard does not find lan play to be that big either other wise they would include it also. Stuff llike ahlo where you ahve to pay a fee to play online, the offer lan so you can play with alot of peope, but you can play online fore free, so why not just make you charceter online. You can do everything you could do offline, besuide using some hack and other ways of cheating. To me Lan play is like if you qould go buy fred flistones car to drive around, its pretty much out of date.

I have to disagree with this, I started DII by playing online, all I learnt from online play was to rush to hell and sit in baal runs until i could equip my end game gear.
I switched from online play to offline and actually played through the game and to I developed new skills, I.E the ability to use defensive skills such as the barbarians taunt.


I live in Australia and to play on Bnet servers I will regularly have >400ms of lag. I would much rather play TCP/IP with my friends and have 20ms of lag. This is especially important when we play HC.

sorry do to the play you liev b net is not the best option for you, but fr most people i do not find this is a issue. but as far as skills go, is till play through the game on bnet, i rush some toons, but so play through with other charecters with friends, infact i will being that tonight. Playing lan to me is a set back, i can do so much more online. moves like taunt in end game serve no point and i do not use them in early to mid game because it is not needed.

I do not see the harm of lan play if thats the way you want to play, but as i stated i think it is outdated. you have to play WOW online that does not even have a single player.

 

[Akse]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

You can finish the game in a day even in singleplayer.. with some experience you can do this.. we are seeing this in every ladder reset where people have to start from scratch (some of them do it solo some in teams).

Can definitely argue against this since I play offline exclusively (except for LAN with friends) and never found that pointless. So I suggest you reevaluate that statement. Perhaps you are just not following what other people are doing. The vast majority of people in fact, judging from game sales figures against online presence. I suggest you read Flux post above yours again. It speaks exactly of the wrong perception of reality a community can give.

Imo D2 single player is weak.. after you have done it 5-10 times through with all classes it really gets boring and thats when the community gets in and keeps you playing along with trading, ladder racing and pvp or whatever.

But anyways the community has been sucking many many years.. it was only great before lod and at start of LOD when there was very little of cheating around etc.

Anyways for you australians, maybe battle.net2 will offer better realm options? I think thats the real question if you worry about your latency..

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

Imo D2 single player is weak.. after you have done it 5-10 times through with all classes it really gets boring and thats when the community gets in and keeps you playing along with trading, ladder racing and pvp or whatever.

<community sucks+connection-sucks snip>

For me, playing through the game online 5 times is enough, same as single player (SP offers mods, though; hah). The trading isn't enough of a drive to me; I'd rather do that while the game itself is still interesting, lol.
Just here to say generalisation is bad

 

[Starving_Poet]

Re: Some thoughts on Diablo 3 and this forum

Just a note for the speed runs.

The record for Single player, HC, twinked, unsegmented - can do all three difficulties, start to finish 3 hours and 20 minutes.