Latest Diablo 3 News
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Some lingering questions

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by ziambe, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. ziambe

    ziambe Diabloii.Net Site Pal

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    261
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Some lingering questions

    So I've been mfing on a frenzy barb and all the mindless holding of the right mouse button has given me some time to think of some random questions...

    1. I know bone spirit is magic damage, but sometimes I or my merc take way more damage from it than seems reasonable, especially since there are no curses or auras that should enhance magic damage taken...is there a mechanic to bone spirit that I don't know about?

    2. Same as above...are succubi blood stars considered magic or physical or both?

    3. Can you kill a monster on /p 3 and hork it on /p 8?

    4. What can I do to be less annoyed by baal's decrepify except for cower into the recesses of his throne room?

    Thanks for one or all answers!
     
  2. Arranj

    Arranj Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    34
    Re: Some lingering questions

    Well, i cant answer 1 or 2 but..

    3 - All horks are considered as /p7 for drops regardless of the players setting you are using.

    4 - Difficult/impractical for waves 1, 2 and 3 but when possible, stand out of curse range and lure towards you. Works perfectly for Ventar's pack and most importantly, Listers pack.
     
  3. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    6,165
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    468
    Re: Some lingering questions

    1. No, that's simply how much damage they do. Remember that you have no % magic damage reduction as you do with elements and physical damage.

    2. I'm pretty sure that they're physical damage.

    3. Arranj, I'd never heard that about horking, do you have a source for that info?

    4. You can stock up on ias, frw, and DR. Fade reduces curse length.
     
  4. RobbyD

    RobbyD Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,621
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    469
    Re: Some lingering questions

    for question 4:

    I run Baal in 1.09 with a Frenzy Barb, and I find it's pretty easy to lure packs 3 and 4 out of range, and doable for pack 5 (they just have a smaller radius of awareness and it's harder to get their attention to chase you) - and the bonus is that if you get them past, say, the first set of pillars, Baal won't remove the corpses and you can hork them. Now, the AI might have changed since 1.09, but here's my approach:

    For 1 and 2, stand about where they will spawn, and cast Battle Cry as soon as they have. More often than not, the boss will overwrite decrep with amp.

    For 3 - 5, stand back between the pillars - when the packs spawn, run up to get their attention and draw them back to outside Baal's range to take them on. Cast Battle Cry once they converge on you.
     
  5. Kimppi

    Kimppi Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Re: Some lingering questions

    I'm pretty sure that when the hork succeeds, the monster will drop the maximum number of items it can drop. The "p7 drop" probably started because the council members have a nodrop of 0 at /players7.
     
  6. Thomh

    Thomh Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Some lingering questions

    1. Not that I`m aware of.

    2. Blood stars deal physical damage and can be blocked IIRC. However, the succubi type monsters have a magical melee attack, which seems kinda counterintuitive:)

    3. Horking are (as Arranj said) considere to be /p7 considering drops. I`m pretty sure Fabian did some testing of this in the Travincal WW barb thread of his, and it was linked to some stuff done by onderduiker there.

    4. Not much with a Frenzy Barb, unfortunately. You can summon something close to Baal (with either Wisp Projector, Oath, Beast or whatever else with charges) and he will decreipify the closest target. Just stay out of the radius of his decreipify and you`ll be safe. This is highly impractical, though, as charges cost a lot and the summons will be very weak and killed very fast leading to the next curse landing on you.
     
  7. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    6,165
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    468
    Re: Some lingering questions

    Okay.

    Now that I think about it, it does seem like horks always yield a full drop (5 items? 6?). I guess that's a good reason to run on a low setting (I run on /p3) and max Find Item.


     
  8. ziambe

    ziambe Diabloii.Net Site Pal

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    261
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Re: Some lingering questions

    Thanks for all your responses so far guys. Now I've got some more...

    5. When you kill the last seal boss in the sanctuary do you get xp for all of the minions that die around him?

    6. Does the LCS take into account -% target defense?

    7. Why does crushing blow seem to work faster on diablo than baal?

    8. Does the 'buff' that Anguish worms/Rancid Defilers cast on their allies have any effect besides making them turn into a little annoying worm on death?

    9. Why do people put some runewords in exceptionals like oath/death in balrog blades/executioner swords?
     
  9. Islandstone

    Islandstone Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Re: Some lingering questions

    7. Crushing blow damage is reduced by physical resist. (Hell diablo has 45%, Baal has 50%)
     
  10. jiansonz

    jiansonz Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    323
    Re: Some lingering questions

    5. I don´t think you do. That´s why I always leave one of the two 'empty' seals for last. That way, no monster disappears even if you don´t kill the boss last.

    6. Probably not, but not sure.

    8. No.

    9. Balrog Blade is elite, no?
    Level requirement for the base item, maybe? No exceptional base item requires higher level than 25.
     
  11. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    6,165
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    468
    Re: Some lingering questions

    5. No.

    6. No.

    9. I don't think Oath or Death are often put in exceptional weapons, at least I've never seen it. I've seen Grief in zwiehanders, though. This is because Grief has +X damage whereas Oath/Death have +% damage. Zwiehanders have better range than phase blades, and the resulting damage is pretty similar, so zweihander is a good choice.

    Also, BB is elite.
     
  12. Greebo

    Greebo Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: Some lingering questions

    5. No (to the best of my knowledge, I did some testing as I was curious)

    9. Two reasons: (a) low level requirement, while maintaining very high damage, (b) base weapon speed (e.g. Grief in a Zweihander)

    --Greebo
     
  13. ziambe

    ziambe Diabloii.Net Site Pal

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    261
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Re: Some lingering questions

    Woops, my bad on the balrog blade...but thanks for the grief in zweihander info, i see that a lot.

    Meantime...I am furying on quite nicely and thought of four more:

    10. Magic find doesn't seem to help find gheeds'...must not work on grand charms?

    11. Why do ghoul lord meteor spells seem to hit me from more than twice the distance of their visual damage area?

    12. Facets + infinity...how does this work? say i carry the infinity and break a fire immune when does -enemy resistance get calculated in and does it remain at the listed value, i.e. 5% = 5%?

    13. Do unraveller class monsters have 2 types of poison attacks? Sometimes they seem to poison me in a way that lasts 5 minutes and is quite potent...
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  14. Kimppi

    Kimppi Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Re: Some lingering questions

    10. Yes it does.

    11. No idea.

    12. -Resistance gets calculated after the immunity has been broken. If the immunity doesn't break, -resistance does nothing. It decreases the resistance the amount listed.

    Example: You carry infinity and break a 110% immunity. Since Conviction and Lower Resist work at 1/5 efficiency against immunes, the monster's resistance gets reduced to 99%. You have rolled an infinity with -50% resist, and it's the only piece of -resist you have, so the final resist of the monster is -49%. For a light immune ofc.

    Sorry, I didn't quite understand the question.

    13. I think it's just critical hit. Monsters have a 5% chance to do double damage.
     
  15. onderduiker

    onderduiker Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    181
    Trophy Points:
    134
    Re: Some lingering questions

    All Oblivion Knight bone spirits apply the following damage:

    Code:
    Min Magic Damage   1+(9*lvl)
    Max Magic Damage   6+(9*lvl)
    
    DIFFICULTY   LEVEL   MAGIC DAMAGE
    ---------------------------------
    Normal           2          19-24
    Nightmare        5          46-51
    Hell             9          82-87
    
    Critical hits double damage 5% of the time, so in Hell up to 164-174 magic damage can be applied. Magic damage can only be countered by Energy Shield, magic damage reduction, Magic Resist % (although only a Safety shield has MR +5-10%) and Magic Absorb (for example, a Spirit shield has +3-8 MA).

    I'll respond with a quote of my own:

    I'll add now that neither Succubi nor Stygian Furies actually have an A2 attack animation.



    I haven't posted in either Fabian's High Runes and the High Council, 1.13 Edition or Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide threads, and the only reference I could find to myself in either was mattinm's post regarding Fire Enchanted testing on the 1.13 Public Test Realm back in December... which isn't relevant here. I might have forgotten something, but as a general rule I'm not particularly interested in (and consequently not especially knowledgeable about) item generation, so I doubt it.

    I appreciate that I might have posted often enough now for 'onderduiker' to spring to mind after 'testing' in a game of word association, but in this case I don't think I've had any relevant input. :)



    Nope.

    Islandstone has already brought up Damage Resist % (in Hell Diablo has DR 45%, Baal has DR 50%), but there's also the fact that in Hell Diablo has less than 1/4 of Baal's life (113,812 vs 493,701): as a result, damage from other sources will account for a larger portion of Diablo's life (10,000 damage after Resist % would account for almost 9% of Diablo's base maximum life, but only just over 2% of Baal's base maximum life). There are also differences in level (94 vs 99), defence (2,534 vs 2,847) and block (50% vs 55%) which affect the number of attacks which hit and subsequently apply damage and CB.

    Based on a quick look at the .txt files, Greater Mummies can apply poison damage with either their A1 melee attack or the missile assigned to their A2 attack. In Hell, the missile only has a base poison length of 4.04-16.04 seconds (depending on sub-type), while the melee attack has 15-30% chance of applying poison damage with a base poison length of 80-120 seconds (depending on sub-type again).

    Resist % difficulty level penalties also apply to poison length reduction, so in the likely event that you aren't equipping any PLR % then you'll have PLR -100% in Hell, resulting in those poison lengths being doubled to 8.04-32.04 and 160-240 seconds respectively (monster missiles apply an extra frame of poison damage, so 4-16 seconds plus 1 frame or 0.04 second is doubled to 8-32 seconds plus 1 frame).

    Furthermore, in Nightmare and Hell both monster poison damage and length increase by 1/16 or 6.25% with each additional player. Since the A2 missile's damage is calculated using Missiles.txt values that doesn't apply to its poison damage and length, but it does apply to the poison damage and length applied by the melee attack: in an eight-player game, base poison length increases from 80-120 to 114.96-172.48 seconds (so 229.92-344.96 seconds with PLR -100%).



    Critical hits double the poison damage applied every frame, but don't double length.


     
  16. jiansonz

    jiansonz Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    323
    Re: Some lingering questions

    Regarding unraveler attack: poison breath is nearly harmless, melee poison is very potent. Stay at range 2 or more against these guys, if possible.
     
  17. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    6,165
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    468
    Re: Some lingering questions

    So this is why my barb has some trouble standing in the middle of Baal's second wave on \players8 with no plr and only 33% PR. :)

    I've alleviated that by lowering the players setting and/or using antidotes to buff his poison resist. He really can't squeeze plr in also. Is there anything else he could do? (It'd be nice to do all the waves on /8).

    /hijack
     
  18. Thomh

    Thomh Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Some lingering questions

    Heh, I`m pretty sure I saw a thread where it was tested, so you`re right. You`re probably "guilty" by word association;)

    In any case, great to see you come in here and explain a lot of points to us, always appreciated.

    I`ll do some actual testing of horking later today, just so we can put a mark in the "tested" box next to the horking question for sure.


     
  19. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,052
    Likes Received:
    1,769
    Trophy Points:
    535
    Re: Some lingering questions

    [OT]
    onderduiker is the new RTB. Drops in, posts great stuff, vanishes again.
    [/OT]
     
  20. Fabian

    Fabian Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    4,033
    Likes Received:
    276
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Re: Some lingering questions

    Regarding horking, my understanding is that Kimppi has it right. When you successfully hork a body, the nodrop chance is 0. In the case of council members, this means a p7 drop, which is probably where the "a hork is a p7 drop" thing originated form.
     

Share This Page