Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Some CoT and PS nextdelay questions not answered in the FAQ

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by LtDrebin, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. LtDrebin

    LtDrebin IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Some CoT and PS nextdelay questions not answered in the FAQ

    I'm building a phoenix striker assassin and I was reading through the FAQ and it said that claws of thunder now release the third and second charges simultaneously (nova and charged bolts). Where was this documented? I don't see that in a changelog. It also adds that since CoT is affected by nextdelay (just the bolts and the nova), then the fact that both bolts and nova is released simulateously does not mean that an enemy will be hit by both UNLESS knockback is applied as well (dragon tail). From my understanding of nextdelay, I thought it only affected individual spell projectiles. What I mean by this is that I imagined that nextdelay would apply to the nova ring and a separate nextdelay counter would be applied to the charged bolts, so an enemy could be hit by both nova and one charged bolt within 4 frames (but not by the nova twice or by more than 1 charged bolt 4 frames or less apart).

    My confusions also applies to phoenix strike, since nextdelay affects the second and third charges. If I was to release 3 charges of claws of thunder and the second charge of phoenix strike (chain lightning), would the nextdelay of claws of thunder also apply to the lightning (or the ice bolts if PS was charged to 3) of PS? I have also imagined that nextdelay has separate timers for different spells as well, but if that's not the case then CoT + PS is nerfed big time by nextdelay.

    One of the guides of phoenix strike says that releasing CoT with PS is a bad idea because of nextdelay, but that seems to be the only source that kind of answers my nextdelay questions.

    However, since the knockback of dragon tail pushes back enemies just enough for both the nova and charged bolts of CoT to hit, would releasing CoT and PS with dragon tail also solve the problems of nextdelay?

    http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=599 is the link for the phoenix striker guide. Nextdelay is discussed with CoT and PS.
     
  2. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    5,108
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    120
    If a missile with nextdelay specified attempts to hit a monster/player/etc, no missile that also has a nextdelay can hit that monster/player/etc for the duration listed for the first missile. This happens even when the initial missile ends up doing no damage, if it's for example blocked (shield block, weapon block, or avoid/evade), or fails the chance to hit check.

    A nextdelay of 4 means the duration is 4 frames.
     
  3. LtDrebin

    LtDrebin IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    So does that mean that if a strafeazon hits a monster with strafe (4 nextdelay), then that monster is immune to all damage from attacks that have a nextdelay on them? So for the next 4 frames, that monster is immunes to another strafe arrow, CoT charge, or chain lightning? If so, then it also appears that the nextdelays from CoT and PS interfere with each other, significantly lowering the effectiveness.
     
  4. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2004
    Messages:
    2,172
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Yeah, pretty much. I had forgotten both CoT and PS both had NextDelay on them, but it does explain the lack of punch I was expecting last time I used them together.

    With the two CoT NextDelay, BIGeyedBUG noticed the Dragon Tail phenomenon and has used it effectively. Choosing the right charge of PS may be another solution (Phoenix1 comes to mind).
     
  5. LtDrebin

    LtDrebin IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    So if dragon tail does indeed work around the nextdelay from charges 2 and 3 of CoT, then I should probably use that instead of dragon claw as a finisher. I don't plan on maxing DTail, I would just want the knockback (but it is so slow...). I doubt using DTail when releasing CoT and PS together would solve the nextdelay issues for all of them, but it would solve at least some.
     
  6. BIGeyedBUG

    BIGeyedBUG IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    It's true, although its hard to quantify how much damage potential is being lost. Four frames is not a very long time, and the Phoenix2 missiles are much smaller than they appear in game. Also even before 1.1, I was always a fan of quick charge/release cycles rather than stacking charges, so it's never bothered me much.

    I still have a suspicion that sometimes Phoenix2 interferes with itself, but again, it's hard to quantify. brianc84 did a little testing and didn't notice anything.

    As far as Dtail/CoT goes, it works great, and is especially elegant as an immune solution for a Dtail build. I think a summary of my tests is still hanging out somewhere on this board.

    edit: just saw your last post. Besides the speed issue, Dtail is also not as reliable a release skill because of its AR bonus and because of its single attempt per attack compared to DC's two. If you can get around those issues, no problem.
     

Share This Page