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soj's and hr's

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by uncountednose, Oct 12, 2006.

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  1. uncountednose

    uncountednose IncGamers Member

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    soj's and hr's

    since it is against the rules to talk about or trade items that are duped or are likely duped(which i like as a policy) why are people able to do these exact things in respect to soj'd and hr's? it seems to me these items are just as likely to be duped as say a 32020 for example. just a thought
     
  2. Evrae Altana

    Evrae Altana IncGamers Member

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    The economy is based on SoJs and HRs, so even if they're duped, they're the only thing we have that resembles some form of currency. Take them out, and traders will have to rely on the inefficient barter system. 32020 and 40/15 on the other hand, aren't the main unit of currency, so banning them won't affect the economy that much.
     
  3. IntelligentX

    IntelligentX IncGamers Member

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    I will say because soj and high runes have fixed stats, so there are no way to tell if they are duped or not. But for 32020 or 40/15, as the chances of getting anything maxed is very slim as they all are variables (E.g. the max damage on fine small charm can be 1 to 3, attack rating can be 11-20, and the suffix "of vita" can be 16-20) , so they are pretty much duped instead of legit.
     
  4. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    Do we have to talk about the drop rate for runes? Finding a high rune is almost as unlikely to happen.
     
  5. IntelligentX

    IntelligentX IncGamers Member

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    Still much better than 32020 and 40/15, imo.
     
  6. greenjello

    greenjello IncGamers Member

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    I think runes are a great form of currency. You have a big list of em and as you go up the price increases. It's exactly what works.

    The problem is dupes. We need a form of trading between players that filters out dupes. Obviously the game or Blizzard has some method of knowing whether or not an item is duped. That needs to be applied to the trade window somehow.

    I think in a situation like this the price of items and rune scarcity can be more sensible. Runes like Um and Ist would be worth more in terms of Uniques than they are currently. Rare runes would truly be rare...you couldn't make high runes the standard because it would be next to impossible.
     
  7. uncountednose

    uncountednose IncGamers Member

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    well i might have to agree that you pretty much have to have something as a form of currency but the chances of getting a ohm,sur,ber,jah etc... is worse than getting a 32020 especially when you take rerolling into acct.

    another point: items like last wish, you have a better chance of winning state lotteries in two states on the same day than getting one of those that doesn't have a dupe in it.

    in fact i have to side with a lot of people that say if blizzard truly didnt want dupes they wouldnt have made runewords like that so that really calls into question just how serious blizzard is about duping. or even better, the d.clone was a "response" to duping that seems to encourage soj duping
     
  8. RequiemDeath

    RequiemDeath IncGamers Member

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    I agree with this... Thus, I don't worry about it, and just play... If it poofs, big deal... Life goes on... In fact, I think working toward a legit item is something that keeps the game interesting...

    I don't agree with this... With the way I play, coming across a high rune is easier than coming across a rare amulet, and it having any combination of stats... Plus, think about it... You can upgrade runes... Rerolling is still random... 2 hell forges COULD get you 2 Gul runes... 2 Gul runes will upgrade to a legit Vex rune... This is guaranteed... No 90% chance of getting a worthless turd of an amulet...

    Plus, you're playing and killing things, rather than crossing your fingers before you click the transmute button... I only reroll grand charms... Just seems like better odds to me...
     
  9. uncountednose

    uncountednose IncGamers Member

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    lets see hell forge drops randomly within its range which is hel to gul. so if you do hellforge 22 times on average you will get 2 of each of those runes. lets not just cube the gul lets cube them all see how long it takes to get me a ber(i wanna make a coh).

    thinking.....(man this math is hard i think i need a spreadsheet)

    ok im losing patience im gonna simplify the math 22 runs=3.6 guls(thats fairly close i think its actually 3.55555555555 or thereabouts). 1 ber=2 sur=4 lo=8 ohm=16 vex=32 guls. ok just need 32 guls. 32/3.6 is 8.89. 8.89*22 is 195-196 runs.

    ok i know this example is extreme(at least i didnt want botd) but it shows how impractical using forges to get any appreciable amounts of hr's is. and i know i could have traded that vex for most any hr but we are talking about legitimate hr's which includes all of them not just vex.

    during these 195 or so hell rushes(which im sure no one ever left early) how many p.gems can you accumulate? lets see each forge does 1 perf and 3 flawless i think. basically 2 each drop and i know some skulls drop to but pgems found during the rush would more than make up for that. 2*195=390. 390/3=130. 130 rerolls, chances for 32020 or other banned sc arent to bad(cant do the math on that) thats along with regular drops during rush.

    now dont get me wrong the vast majority of 32020's out there are duped and the vast majority of legit ones were probably found or rerolled by botters the same can be said for hr's so i stand by my original point hr just as likely duped as 32020
     
  10. RequiemDeath

    RequiemDeath IncGamers Member

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    You missed my point entirely... I wasn't talking about cubing up to what ever rune you need... Just saying that a legit high rune is easier to come by then what you were saying... Countess has dropped me a few Ists, Hell Forge has dropped me a few Gul's, a few Ists, and everything in between, and I've gotten Vex, Mal, and Ohm from random drops in various games... Legit runes ARE out there... You just have to play...

    *Requiem_Death
     
  11. uncountednose

    uncountednose IncGamers Member

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    i didnt miss your point but the highest rune you have listed is an ohm(27) there are 6 runes above that with decreasing likeliness of dropping and while they trade the same because of the jacked up economy we have i would not consider ist mal or gul hr's. well i guess gul doesnt trade the same but thats besides the point. im saying if you were really dedicated to getting a 32020 or 390 or any of the other small charms you could do it in that amount of time it just takes a lot of tedious gem collecting and even more tedious rerolling(unless you get lucky and one actually drops).
    ive tried rerolling a baal gc and after a mule full of p.gems i still havent got a useful charm(very frustrating)

    in all the time ive played ive gotten some ists and mals and even a sur drop during a baal run. i dont know maybe you have a point when it comes to the lower end of the high rune spectrum but ber,jah,cham,zod? i think we are talking pretty equivalent odds when you compare to those really high runes and take rerolling into account.

    i know i keep bringing up rerolling and while i will probably never reroll again after i get something useful out of this stinking baal gc it does really up the odds on getting good mods on a charm.
     
  12. RequiemDeath

    RequiemDeath IncGamers Member

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    Just make sure you collect the gems your self rather than trading for mass perfect gems... That alone will up your chances of getting a good rune drop... ^_^

    Rerolling is just such a pain sometimes... Especially when you empty a mule full of gems, and get nothing to show for it...

    *Requiem_Death
     
  13. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind IncGamers Member

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    Sorry to rain on this parade

    Alright, I've had enough of this ****. Stones of Jordan and rare runes drop/reroll less frequently than Ruby Jewels of Fervor and Fine Charms of Vita, yet the former are allowed to be traded as 'currency' while the latter aren't. It isn't because they're currency, it's because the people that decide these things have more of a use for SoJs and HRs and they don't see them unbalancing the game. Let me repeat what no one seems to understand:

    Extremely infrequently dropped items cannot become currency unless they're duped. When they're recognized as being duped, you cannot allow them to be traded at all, much less become currency. If you allow duped items to be traded and, as a result, they become currency, you lose the moral ground for deciding which duped items are currency and, therefore, allowed to be traded. You either allow duped items to be traded or you don't, period.
     
  14. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Banned

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    Sounds like you've got quite an axe to grind, Ax2Grind.
     
  15. Evrae Altana

    Evrae Altana IncGamers Member

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    I'm not talking about the rarity of items. Runes and SoJs are the currency; 40/15 and 32020's are not. Why are SoJs and runes the currency while 40/15 and 32020 aren't? How the hell should I know? That's just the way it is. Banning runes and SoJs from being traded would effectively shut down the closest thing we have to a currency and force us to go back to the lovely thing called bartering. You know, hoping for that one-in-a-million chance that someone has an item you need *and* that he actually wants your item in return. Fun, isn't it?
    And yet they ARE the currency. Myself, I prefer a legit form of currency , but sadly, I can't have everything I want, and you can't either. As I've said many times before, in order to ban SoJs and runes from being traded, you'll have to find a way to make them NOT the currency. Good luck on achieving that.
    If you have a problem with trading runes and SoJs due to "moral" reasons (whatever that's supposed to mean), then don't. If you have a problem with the site itself allowing runes and SoJs to be traded, then send a PM to Elly and have a talk with her.
     
  16. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Banned

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    Hey Evrae isn't it hot in there?
     
  17. plasmo

    plasmo IncGamers Member

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    I used to never, ever worry about items traded on these forums being duped (there were a few people who were obviously botting / getting dupes, but they stuck out like sore thumbs). However, now in any trade involving a HR, if I ask the person if it's legit, and they say they don't know, even people on these forums.

    I've found a few of the very high runes, but only about 3 or 4 (which were stashed on a different mule from my other HRs), and I've been playing since D2 came out. I have a fair number of HRs, and have had many more in the past, so even I pretty much have to deal with dupes now. It's just a sad fact of life.

    I don't think SOJs are really currency any more. And as has been pointed out, HRs can possibly be legit; 32020s really cannot be (from a practical point of view). I've found a Jah, a Lo, and a few others; the best charm I've found was something like 1-10-5. Plus, runes are useful to more people as actual items rather than just currency. Only super-rich PvPers use the best charms, while any PvMer or PvPer can use a few HRs to make a useful runeword.
     
  18. RequiemDeath

    RequiemDeath IncGamers Member

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    My point exactly!

    Moral high horses need to be stabled... Either play and deal, or play alone...

    *Requiem_Death
     
  19. Athelstan

    Athelstan IncGamers Member

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    Wow I'm glad someone has finally said this. I can't stand the attitude of some of the "legit" players on this or any other forum. I don't like the situation any more than everyone else, but please don't tell me you are somehow more legit because you don't use items that "might" be duped.
     
  20. bruticus

    bruticus IncGamers Member

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    preach on brother. we're not talkin about counterfeit money, or grand theft auto here. at the end of the day .. it's a game. with all the things in it, for better or worse, still a game. i think we all still play it? :wink3:
     
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