Socketing stormlash

Astilin

Diabloii.Net Member
Socketing stormlash

Just got a stormlash for my k/t sin. I don't feel like putting a jah in it since I am saving that jah to build last wish. Would it be worth my time to put an eth in it for th -25% monster def? How does this work exactly? Does it work on Uniques (i.e. ubers?). Does it apply to kicks?

thanks.
 

stephan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

-25% TD just reduces the targets defense by that amount, which in turn increases your chance to hit. By how much is a really dependent on the situation. It does works against bosses, but only at half effectiveness (25% becomes 12.5%). It does work on kicks.
 

wizAdept

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

vouch what stephan said.

But honestly I like a Jah'd stormlash k/t build over a lwpb k/t build. >.>
 

Astilin

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Is there a specific reason you like stormlash over lwpb? I was looking at removing dracs for laying of hands for the 300% damage to demons and IAS- add to that the 200 from CoH plus might damage... I realize that crushing blow is what really takes them down, but 3-4k kicks (did I do math correctly?) can't hurt. If stormlash is really better, I would gladly save my Hrs for a faith bow for my light hyrbid mf zon.
 

wizAdept

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

%damage to demons does not add to kicks

I liked jah'd stormlash more than lwpb when I played my kick/trapsin because I only did ubers every once in a while, and stormlash with itd + static is one of the fastest room clearers since it softens everything up for death sentry. I suppose you could get faster uber killing speed using a lwpb build, although a stormlash build can do the job as well. imo stormlash build is a better choice for pvming anywhere else in the game, keyrunning or rushing or just leveling up.


imho go for the faith and keep using stormlash.
 

Scudstorm

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

I hate last wish just because it's 6 hrs. Its only use seems to be for uber-tristing with a kicksin...
 

Indecisive

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Is there a specific reason you like stormlash over lwpb? I was looking at removing dracs for laying of hands for the 300% damage to demons and IAS- add to that the 200 from CoH plus might damage... I realize that crushing blow is what really takes them down, but 3-4k kicks (did I do math correctly?) can't hurt. If stormlash is really better, I would gladly save my Hrs for a faith bow for my light hyrbid mf zon.
Say you have level 30 Dtalon, 950 ED bonus (fortitude, laying hands, phoenix shield), upped gores, 220 Strength. Then you will do 2223 damage on average each kick, with maximum at 2787 and minimum at 1660 damage. With 2040 ED tigerstrike, you would do 6196 damage when you release the charge, on average. However I'm not sure that the ED from non-weapon items adds with tigerstrike. Maybe someone knows?


 

improvius

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Say you have level 30 Dtalon, 950 ED bonus (fortitude, laying hands, phoenix shield), upped gores, 220 Strength. Then you will do 2223 damage on average each kick, with maximum at 2787 and minimum at 1660 damage. With 2040 ED tigerstrike, you would do 6196 damage when you release the charge, on average. However I'm not sure that the ED from non-weapon items adds with tigerstrike. Maybe someone knows?
You only get the ED from TS on the first kick. You're better off not using it at all and just kicking.



 

Indecisive

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

I know Improvius. Dtail however is great with Tigerstrike. I was just interested if TS is even less effective than I presumed.
 

wizAdept

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Say you have level 30 Dtalon, 950 ED bonus (fortitude, laying hands, phoenix shield), upped gores, 220 Strength. Then you will do 2223 damage on average each kick, with maximum at 2787 and minimum at 1660 damage. With 2040 ED tigerstrike, you would do 6196 damage when you release the charge, on average. However I'm not sure that the ED from non-weapon items adds with tigerstrike. Maybe someone knows?
laying of hands and other %damage demons/undead does not add to kicks.
physical damage is also weak on kicks no matter how you pump it through ed% items. TS is also fairly bad. z.z @ theorycraft



 

Indecisive

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

You're right wizAdept. There are so many exceptions that I can't keep track of them all.

Effects and the kick skills

The following effects are carried by the kicking skills:
? Life Leech
? Mana Leech
? Elemental Damage
? Magical Damage
? Chance to cast X on striking
? Crushing Blow
? Open Wounds
? Prevent Monster Heal
? Ignore Target Defense
? Hit Blinds Target
? Hit Causes Monster to Flee
? Hit Freezes target
? Hit Slows Target
It says nothing about non-weapon ED here.
 

wizAdept

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

none weapon ed% adds to kicks but just.. dtalon damage is never going to be worthwhile with physical damage no matter how hard you try. Trust me many kicksin players have tried I was never impressed with their characters.
 

Indecisive

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

wizAdept,
I have put the kick formula in an excel spreadsheet so I can look att the difference. With 220 strength, 115 dext, level 30 dtalon and myrmideon greaves, each % ED from non-equipment, increases the kick damage with 1,16. So with a fortitude, you'll get 300*1,16 = 348 more damage per kick.
This is not very impressive, but take into account that you will kick 6 times in a second. So in one second you'll do 2088 more damage with fortitude than if you did not use fortitude.

OT: with these stats and skills, each point invested in strength will increase damage by 2,162 on average.
Using Enigma and Dragon shield for example will increase kickdamage by about 210 on average. Or how about Stormshield, Beast and CoH? That's 90 strength right there, and ~180 more damage to kicks.
 
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wizAdept

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Stop theorycrafting with spreadsheets and try actually dueling on a fortsin and dueling on an enigmasin. I have seen players attempt physical damage kicksins on priv realms with perfect items, fortitude kicksins just are not worth it. Im telling you from gameplay experience. A stormshield/beast/coh build will be a failure, so is fort.
 

wizAdept

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Meh, regardless of how you do your kicksin damage in pvm the main thing speeding up your killing is a high radius corpse explosion.

I suppose a kicksin with a higher physical damage setup will kill bosses quicker as once cb% drops the boss to low hp the physical damage will make somewhat of a difference. As for the rest of pvm.. does not really matter, cb% will do the majority of the damage to single targets. If anything an enigma build is actually faster for overall pvm than a fort build because you will get around faster, you will kill faster because you can move from pack of enemies to pack of enemies instead of being ground-bound. Not to mention there are some very useful perks with teleport, such as aiming your merc/shadow to attack single targets or saving them if they are about to die. Telestomping with a high damage merc is more useful in overall pvm than the additional damage you would get from trying a fort setup, even if higher physical kick damage build (having cb% as well) will kill single targets faster. A stormlash/enigma build will clear out areas faster than a beast/fort build, and its safer since tele can always get you out of tight spots.
 

Indecisive

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Ok, thanks for the explanation.

The problem with teleporting is that the assassin has the following breakpoints:

16 fpa: 0 fcr
15 fpa: 8 fcr
14 fpa: 16 fcr
13 fpa: 27 fcr
12 fpa: 42 fcr
11 fpa: 65 fcr
10 fpa: 102 fcr
9 fpa: 174 fcr

At least this is alot better than the Dragon Flight, which is stuck at 23 frames, and unfortunately this cannot be changed.


I was thinking of doing a Dtalon - stormlash build with the following equipment:

* Weapon: Stormlash
* Helm: Vampire Gaze (for LL, ML, DR and %DR) and Guilamuere's helm (for CB when needed)
* Armor: Fortitude or Enigma (the good thing about Enigma is that the strength bonus is almost half the extra damage that you get from Fortitude).
* Belt: String of Ears (for %DR and ll and MDR)
* Shield: Gerke's Sanctuary (for DR and MDR)
* Amulet: Crescent Moon (for ll and ml and MDR)
* Rings: Raven Frost and BK5 (AR and LL and Freeze immune)
* Boots: Upped upped Goblin toes (for CB)
* Gloves: Steelrends or maybe T'rang gloves for FCR and poison.

That will leave me with

* Life leech: 18-27%
* Mana leech: 17-23%
* Crushing blow: 68% (100% with Guilameres helmet)
* Strength bonus: 15-20
* Dexterity bonus: 15-20
* Physical resist: 25%-35%
* Resist to all: 45% - 60 % with Fortitude, 20-35% without.
* Enhanced Damage: 360 with Steelrends and 300 without. and 0 with Enigma and T'rang Gloves.
* Damage Reduced by 19-24
* Magic Damage Reduced by 45-59
* Faster Cast Rate: 25 with Steelrends, 45 fcr with T'rang gloves (which means I teleport at 12 fpa).
* IAS breakpoint: 9/3 attacks.
* Required level: 82
* Required Strength: 185 (steelrends), otherwise 133 for Gerkes
* Required Dexterity: 77 (stormlash)

With the low Physical resist and resist to all, Fade is needed, and I will also need to put Um rune or Pdiamond in the shield and helm. FHR is also a problem. To reach 42, I would need to use three 5 FHR small charms and Guil Helm.

I'd also give the merc Reaper's toll, Treachery armor and Andy's helmet. Aura: Might.
 
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Indecisive

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Nevermind, I looked it up. Dragonflight is stuck at 23 fpa, which sucks. I would rather play around with an Enigma at 12 fpa. So the equipment would be something like this:

* Stormlash
* Enigma
* String of Ears
* Raven frost & Bk5
* Upped upped Goblin toes
* T'rang Gloves
* Vampire Gaze or Guilamuaeres...
* Gerke's Sanctuary or just the runeword Sanctuary if MDR and PDR isn't worth it.

Then I will have:

* Life leech: 18-27%
* Mana leech: 17-23%
* Crushing blow: 68% (100% with Guilameres helmet)
* Strength bonus: ~85-~90
* Dexterity bonus: 15-20
* Physical resist: 33%-43%
* Resist to all: 20% - 30%. However, with Um rune in Helm and Shield, I will have 57% - 67%. Level 30 fade gives an additional 69%, and anni + torch increases the resistance further. So I should be pretty close to max resistance with these numbers.
* Enhanced Damage: 0 :(
* Damage Reduced by 19-24
* Magic Damage Reduced by 45-59
* Faster Cast Rate: 45, which means that I teleport at 12 fpa
* IAS breakpoint: 9/3 attacks.
* Faster Block Rate: 5 fpa (I have 0 FBA)
* FHR breakpoint: 9 fpa (I have 0 FHR, but should try somehow to increase this to 7 (8 fpa), 15 (7 fpa), 27 (6 fpa), 48 (5 fpa), 86 (4 fpa))
* Required level: 82
* Required Strength: 133 (Gerkes)
* Required Dexterity: 77 (stormlash)

As for skills:
20 venom
20 shadow master
20 fade
20 dtalon
1 death sentry
1 blade shield
Total skill points invested: 96 and build is complete at level 85 if I am correct.

I'm not so sure if PDR and MDR is so good for a build where you don't have ES shield or a druid shield etc. Any inputs about this?

Also, mana is going to be a problem with this build, if I am going to teleport alot.
 
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Scudstorm

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Dragonflight is stuck at 23 fpa, which sucks. I would rather play around with an Enigma at 12 fpa.
Dragonflight is an utility still. You should only use it strategically (e.g. bringing minions to where they should be, telestomping with merc...). Teleport, on the other hand, is more used for going around. So comparing their cast rates isn't very interesting.

If, however, you only use teleport the same way you would Dragonflight (+ a little tele to skip obstacles on special occasions), the cast rate comparison would be relevant as a faster cast may save your life. In this case, however, mana would not be a problem.
 

wizAdept

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Socketing stormlash

Actually its better to telestomp with merc using teleport than using flight to minion stack, its faster and you have more control over where you stomp. Teleport is not used for just moving around.

If you spam teleports in a row to get around or if you just teleport to stack minions or better place yourself to attack, fcr is still useful for the ability.

Mana could be a problem but while playing Im sure you'll learn to budget your mana, and death sentry will be taking up more of your mana pool than teleport.


@ Indecisive: for your skill layout be sure to have and make use of cloak of shadows and mindblast, both are amazing 1 point wonders.
mdr/idr is possibly a good idea for hc, I havent really played around with mdr/idr much but I think someone else on these forums has and will probably comment. You should also try to get at least 8/3 kicks imo.
 
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