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so what was that about Spain not suffering from more terrorism? de

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Sergeant, Apr 4, 2004.

  1. Sergeant

    Sergeant IncGamers Member

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    so what was that about Spain not suffering from more terrorism?

    source

    This was not a "terror attack" per se but, they were terrorists who did detonate an explosive device as Spanish authorities closed on them, chanting as they went to meet Allah.

    Even though it was not an "attack" rather a forced hand, it does prove terrorists were still in the stages of planning another attack against Spain.

    I'd like to think it shows that bowing to terrorism won't keep you safe from them. Likewise, the US has not bowed to terrorism and look how many attacks there have been in our country since Sept. 11.

    You give in to terrorism, you subject yourselves to them even more. You stand up to them, hunt them to the ends of the earth, they look for an easier target (i.e. Spain).

    Thoughts on this?
     
  2. masterazn

    masterazn Banned

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    I kinda agree with Sarge, if you show yourself to be weak and open to attacks, the terrorists will just take advantage of that...I mean, it's what they do.
     
  3. SquareRootOfBob

    SquareRootOfBob IncGamers Member

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    None in the country, but many against our soldiers. I still agree with you, though.
     
  4. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    For the umpteenth, and certainly not the last time, the Spainish government has not 'bowed down' to terrorism. I thought we had covered this a couple weeks ago.

    Aw, forget it. I've got better ways to waste my time.

    Cheers
     
  5. Xasis

    Xasis IncGamers Member

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    I am spanish and I think that you are saying stupid things.... far from reality
     
  6. Corneo

    Corneo IncGamers Member

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    Yes, hunting down terrorist groups down to the core then and then commit the most horrible act of punishment on them. I suggest punishing terrorist by taboo's of their religion. See if their God wants them in heaven afterwards.
     
  7. swami

    swami Banned

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    i think you are saying stupid things too, far from reality.:lol:
     
  8. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    Spain's problem is that they attacked AQ unprovokedly and are approximately 9 miles north of the western edge of the arab world. I don't know about you guys, but I travel farther than that to get to school every day.

    AQ is in the same situation as Spain really. AQ attacked us and we retalliated. AQ's cessation of hostilities against our mainland did not stop our offensive. Again, what one must recognize is that this isn't simply an issue of the world vs. terrorism. AQ started on us, but Spain is the one that initiated aggression in its relationship with AQ.

    Nothing's ever as clear-cut as the movies or even the president would have you believe. There is no such thing as a conflict between a pure good force and a pure evil force. If either side had no rational reason for being at conflict, there would be no conflict.
     
  9. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    Sarge, my first gut reaction was the same as yours.

    Then I tried blaming Bush (after all, Aznar opposed the will of his own people to join us in Iraq).

    But the fact is, this has to do with matters internal to Spain and isn't really related to al Qa'eda or Iraq at all. Don't believe me, believe the Spaniard in this thread. Believe the news reports from people who have been living in Spain.

    The primary reasons cited were two things:
    • More people than usual voted. It turns out that the people who normally don't vote turned out to be socialists.
    • Aznar got caught early in a lie when he tried pinning the bombings on a local, non-Muslim terrorist group (which his party is famous for being tough on). The people reacted very negatively to his use of the disaster for political gain. Imagine if Bush tried to politicize Sept. 11 the day after. How do you imagine this country would have reacted to that?

    And Duped, I disagree with you. Yes, there were technically good things about Hitler's National Socialists, Stalin, Mao's Cultural Revolution, etc., but for all intents and purposes, those were all pure evil. Ditto with al Qa'eda. There is no spin you can put on them that makes them anything other than evil.

    Indeed, they were otherwise when they helped push the Soviets out of Afghanistan.

    They had their hearts in the right place when they helped out in Kosovo and Chechnya, but they ultimately caused more harm than good.

    But ever since they subjugated Afghanistan under the thumb of the Taliban, they have been a force for evil. No amount of spin will make them look good to anyone other than radical fundamentalist wackos.
     
  10. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    Maybe what we need is to set up a puppet cleric. One that will condem these attack, and explain that you won't be meeting Allah via bombings.
     
  11. pixelpowder

    pixelpowder IncGamers Member

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    You will never acknowledge the facts, but I'll repeat them anyway :

    1) Spaniards have already proven when facing ETA that they are not cowards and they do not need a certificate from any American to know they are not
    2) 80% of the Spanish population didn't want the Iraq war BEFORE the attacks in Madrid
    3) The socialists had pledged to get out of Iraq BEFORE the attacks in Madrid
    4) The lies of the Aznar to try to blame the attacks on ETA at least until the elections was the "last straw" that got the Spanish population angry and probably sealed Aznar's fate
    5) The Spanish police seems to be on the right track in identifying the perpetrators of the Madrid attacks. The US on the other hand, with all it's bombing and invading of other countries, hasn't arrested anyone yet save 600+ randomly picked Muslims who had probably never even traveled to the US
    6) The occupation of Iraq has provided Al Quaida with both new recruits and an appealing rationale. The Madrid attacks would have been much harder to recruit for had it not been for the Iraq operation
    7) France, Germany, Belgium and the lot which you surely consider to have "bowed to terrorists" didn't have terrorist attacks either. Turkey that partly supported the US ont the other hand did. So your argument doesn't hold
    8) If - God forbid - a new terrorist attack occurred here in the US, I assume that by the same logic you are using you would come to the conclusion that the US was wrong to attack Iraq ? Er OK I know the answer you will make :"If there is no further attack on US soil it proves that Bush was right to do what he did. If on the other hand there is a new attack, it proves that Bush was right to do what he did"
    9) And lastly once and for all attacking Iraq and being efficient against terrorism are two entirely separate things except in the mind of confused and / or proselitysing Neo-Cons.
     
  12. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    If you believe in democracy, then you must respect their decision.

    It's as simple as that Sarge.
     
  13. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    Gotta add one more thing: Spain has decided it will pull out of Iraq, but will be doubling their troops in Afghanistan. You can hardly call this backing down in the face of terrorism, since unlike our administration the Spaniards will be concentrating entirely on al Qa'eda.
     
  14. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    Huzzah for specious reasoning!!! :rolleyes: They don't look for easier targets. They are fanatics and believe that dying for their beliefs is the ultimate honour. They don't care how hard a target is to get to. If they can feasibly get there and strike it, they will. I can almost guarantee you there will be another attack on U.S. soil before this so-called war on terrorism is over. Someone will eventually get through.
     
  15. kanga_jay

    kanga_jay IncGamers Member

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    I agree with Anakha1, these people are fanatical in their beliefs. It's a sickening state of affairs, when you realize the leads of these groups have total disregard for life. Preying on and recruiting the uneducated and easily manipulated minds of women and children to do their dirty work. Promising, that dying in the name of Allah will make them martyrs and they and their families will be granted passage into paradise!!

    These terrorist have proven time and time again that they will stoop to any level, at any time, in any place.

    The Palestinian boy caught with explosives strapped to his body trying to pass a Israeli check point. When asked why he did it, he replies "I just want to be liked" Some relatives condemned the leaders, some were proud!
    How do you fight people with this mentality?

    Sure, they look for the softer targets. The Bali bomb was proof of that, making the politicians; and the world sit up and realize we all have to more vigilant

    My personal opinion, if they want to hit you, they will..


    What if there was no oil in the middle east to fight over and protect, would they still come?

    I think so!
     
  16. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    Sarge, you'll never convince them. They lack the basic warrior's spirit. They'll never understand what it takes to make somebody afraid of you. I mean terrified to their very core.

    Pres. Bush knows what it takes. We haven't been attacked again because they saw what happened. We kicked the crap out of the Taliban. Why else do you think that even though Hamas has declared war on the US, they are scared to hit us here? Because there is no force in the world that can stop us from going in and killing them.

    There are some terrorists too dumb or too fanatical to accept this simple lesson. Those we terminate with extreme prejudice. And in such a way as to remind the rest of their lunatic buddies that the same fate awaits them if they make the same mistake.

    Spain failed to teach the terrorists this lesson. I believe France will make the same mistake as well. Maybe then they will begin to learn. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
     
  17. Crispyknight

    Crispyknight IncGamers Member

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    Group threatens to turn Spain into ‘inferno’
    Islamic group issues warning after alleged bomb plotters kill selves


    I dont know how to link to other sites, or to turn that cool colors, but thats the headline on MSN right now. (I know, its MSN, but hey) Pretty straightforward, dont you think?
     
  18. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    What would you think of helping Spain militarily deal with this threat? I'd support it if they ask.
     
  19. Crispyknight

    Crispyknight IncGamers Member

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    Yup. I'd help, but on the condition they don't wuss out of future military actions.
     
  20. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    These men will NEVER be afraid of you. The worst you can do is kill them and according to their beliefs, being killed by you is a free ticket to paradise. Many of their people's life mission is to be killed by a western soldier and thus die fighting against the infendel.

    And I find it amusing hearing talk about the "warrior's spirit' from someone who's never worn a military uniform or fought in his life. You don't know what you're talking about. You've been talking a lot of tough talk lately and yet you still haven't ponied up the proof that you have any guts behind your words. Armchair strategy at its best.
     

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