So I described this crafting system I think will work for D4.

osobaum

Diabloii.Net Member
Blizzard needs help creating this beast and so I tried.
In this thread I've linked to on the blizz forums I described a crafting system that I think might be just what the doctor ordered, for the D2 crowd and blizzard to get what they want. Or at least come close to it.
Disclamer - I have described a crafting system, I did not try to balance items. That is for David Kim to handle with the dev team.

us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/d4-crafting-system-and-general-specialized-play-my-pitch/10261

Please read the thread and like/comment if you agree that the system represent a way forward for you! Give the thread as much visibility as it deserves, maybe Blizz will notice.
 

T72on1

Diabloii.Net Member
I must admit I'm not enough into the technical side of games to be add something relevant to the thread. I just wanted to thank you for coming up with a system and sparking the discussion. Hopefully it will indeed lead to improving D4 and in the end maybe giving us a terrific game !!
 

In the name of Zod

Diabloii.Net Member
To me, the most important aspect of having different categories of items is that each category gets at least one affix that is unique to that category. You can come up with lots of different ways to craft but if all you end up with ultimately is just another rare, magic or legendary item then its value would be diminished to the player. A crafted item needs more separation/specialization to stay pertinent. Lest we end up with more useless items.
 

osobaum

Diabloii.Net Member
To me, the most important aspect of having different categories of items is that each category gets at least one affix that is unique to that category. You can come up with lots of different ways to craft but if all you end up with ultimately is just another rare, magic or legendary item then its value would be diminished to the player. A crafted item needs more separation/specialization to stay pertinent. Lest we end up with more useless items.
In this sysstem getting another rare is the point and you would use crafted items all game long. The system doesnt hinder a late game crafting option with legendary/unique/separated items, though its not described in the system.
To not diminish the value of rares, the system recuires a D2 like drop rate imo, as I wrote in the thread.
Edit: I love the Idea of the different tiers of items having at least one affix that is unique to that tier. That could easily be implemented in this system by making it so that perticulair affix simply doesnt transfer to the crafter rare. However, I dont imagine Blizzard liking that option since it is a potentially frustrating aspect of gameplay that easily could be left out..
I myself would love to spend all of normal difficulty looking for magics and rares while wearing white gear, but then again, Blizz. Plus affixes are cool, so Im hoping for a lot of variety.
Edit 2: If you want to speculate on what the cost of crafting a rare (a white an blue and?) plus what drop rate would equal a satisfactory scarcity of rares for the player, please do so! I would love to hear your thoghts about it (and if you wanna give the thread more exposure, do so in the linked thread).

What are your thoughts on the crafting in Grim Dawn?
Im on my way to work. Ill come back to it later :)
 
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osobaum

Diabloii.Net Member
What are your thoughts on the crafting in Grim Dawn?
I never played Grim Dawn, so i did some quick research so tell me if I get anything twisted.
I wont speak to the deeper relationship between the crafting system itself and the rest of the game btw, just look at the crafting in general.
Ok, so the talking points that I see are related to the system I described in my thread are as follows:

  • Types of items
In Grim Dawn all Item tiers below rares are for crafting while all above are like uniques or sets from D2, so no items below rare matter, besides as crafting materials. Im guessing this really puts the crafting component of the game in the foreground, probably even before item drops.
What I would like to see in D4 is that crafting is a complementary component, especially in the late game.

  • Number of affixes on crafted item and how many, if any, are random.
Im wondering, how many affixes can a rare have in Grim Dawn?
If conjoined with the crafting system I described I think less affixes from a bigger pool are a good option for D4.

  • Materials and items contra just items to be used in crafting.
So in Grim Dawn you craft higher tier loot with lower tier crafting materials, most of which are items you also can use to better your character independent of crafting.
While the UI clutter and grinding for materials are no-nos for me, the notion that you craft with independently useful crafting materials is sexy as hell.
Translated to the crafting system I described for D4, it would be like using gems, in addition to the base and magic items, in crafting recipes.
How this would be implemented and balanced so that its keeping gems as useful items outside of crafting, as well as making the gem add something to the crafted item, (which I think is an importand factor for both immersion and ease of use), I dont know...

  • legendary/unique items.
Epics and legendarys in Grim Dawn are crafted using rare items and materials in a sort of natural progression of the games crafting system and still, quite uninspiring. Though legendarys might be so expencive and rare that the fun of the hunt is still there. I wouldnt know.
Im not adressing legendarys/sets/uniques in the crafting system for D4 that I described, mostly because I really have no idea what the devs are leaning towards, but also because the end game balancing of legendarys works kind of independantly to the rest of the game if the items in question are very rare.
I'm guessing most of, if not all the people on this forum want legendarys, uniques and set items to play in tandem with rares and magics and so do I. If I were to give it a shot and relate legendarys to the crafting system I described, perhaps crafting legendarys with a base white, a couple blues and a gem would be the way to go, but its a shot in the dark.


Though Grim Dawns crafting system is a lot deeper and more like Anarchy Online or Titan Quest, the system reminded me of the crafting in diablo 3 in that you gather materials to craft from a list of recipes. Visually this is very uninspiring to me, quite cumbersome and not very intuitive.
Im sure I would have lots of fun with the Grim Dawn system because of its depth, though I dont think it will be what Blizzard is looking for because of how non accessable the system is due to the many crafting materials and the hud clusterfuck that follows. Needless to say, we will have to let some, or most, of our previous Diablo misc items go for D4.
Like what I imagine Blizzard is looking for, I also want as few crafting materials as possible in my games. Give me sexy drop instead!
 

drmalawi

Diabloii.Net Member
Im wondering, how many affixes can a rare have in Grim Dawn?
affix system in Grim Dawn works differently than in Diablo games.
You have two kind of prefixes : magic tier and rare tier and similar for suffixes.
A magic item have two magic tier affixes (one pre- and one suffix)
A rare item have at least one rare tier affix.

Some items that you craft require very rare crafting materials where some of those are monster specific (i.e. you have to farm certain monsters/bosses to have change of such material to drop).

The crafting UI has been improved during the last patches, so perhaps you looked at something that is outdated now but anyway UI and crafting system are two separate things.

But yeah, Blizzard will go with something that casual dudes can understand.
 

osobaum

Diabloii.Net Member
You have two kind of prefixes : magic tier and rare tier and similar for suffixes.
A magic item have two magic tier affixes (one pre- and one suffix)
A rare item have at least one rare tier affix.
Thats kinda cool. You could implement that directly into the system I described as well by making it so that looted rares, but not crafted ones, have a chance of getting a affix from a pool separate from magics items, if that special pool also should be separate from the legendary affix pool I leave unsaid.
 

drmalawi

Diabloii.Net Member
You also have chance of getting certain extra properties depending on which blacksmith you craft the item at.

Some legendary items that are "craft only" also have certain legendary affixes that can roll on them.
 
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