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Slightly OT - can someone help with LLD/VLLD valuations? i

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Nolomite, Mar 27, 2005.

  1. Nolomite

    Nolomite IncGamers Member

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    Slightly OT - can someone help with LLD/VLLD valuations?

    We're trying to breathe a little life back into the Trade Values forum, and we've got no info whatsoever on how to do evals for LLD/VLLD gear.

    For instance, I've got the following shield:

    Superior Rondache - 10% e-def, 13% e-dur
    Req Level 6, Req Str 26
    20 def, 35% chance to block
    +29 all resists
    4os


    Is this thing Godly or God-Awful, and more importantly, why is it good or bad?

    We also get jewels, armors, charms, and weaps that pop up from time to time with low level requirements, which makes people immediately think that they might be good LLD equipment. Obviously few of them really are - and we'd LOVE to be able to tell the difference so we can help the people posting in the Trade Values forum.

    Any guidance would be greatly appreciated - GIR is putting together a guide on how to evaluate items, and we'd appreciate any imput we can get for this stuff so he can include it.
     
  2. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

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    Hmm, its a tough question, I think mostly, you realize when an item is great for a LLDer, for one of three reasons:
    1. Its a very common, well known LLD item (such as lvl 8 and 18 +max dmg jewels, the higher the better) I think thats pretty standard knowledge, same for many other things... angelic jewelry, cow kings boots, deaths glove/sash, 3 socket masks/light plates, 4 socket gothic plates, small charms of life/sustinence, basically, the things MOST LLDers will use. Given some experience in LLDing, most people will quickly pick up on what these are...

    2. They have some mods you think might be useful for a LLDer, pretty self explanitory, but if you saw, for example, a +5 max dmg large charm, I think they're lvl 16. Now you might not know this is a common LLD item, but you DO know +max dmg is highly sought after by LLDers, and this is a lvl 16 charm, with +5 max... you would hang on to it, and ask someone, and find out that yes, that is a good LLD item. (basically, you think its good, but you're not sure, ask someone and find out)

    3. You see something which you dont think is a "common" lld item, but which you can think of a use for. An example would be 20% IAS, eth replenish war jav. No max dmg on it, so you might not see it right off as a keeper, but hey, 20% IAS hits a jabber breakpoint, and eth/replenish adds some damage (and is just really cool) Its a useable item until you find a better damage one with 20% IAS. Basically, these are usually found for less common builds, like smiters, jabbers, hammerdins, I find that even more commonly, its for ~lvl 30 characters... An example would be a level 34 hammerdin I made, he used some very good, but not "cookie cutter" gear, like a FCR/+combat skills circlet, you wouldnt think "LLD" when you saw it)

    The basic things to keep in mind are that LLDers are going for a LOT of damage, at a low level, therefore, +max dmg is a HUGE mod for most LLDers. (ED doesnt help as much)
    Life is also useful, though its generally obtained through charms.
    You'll want CBF (deaths sash)
    Basically, you want a lot of low level, socketable things, armors and hats, and then good jewels to fill the sockets, which on most builds is +max.

    Charms, max and life (or, ideally, max+life on one charm)

    Jewelry: Angelics on most builds 12-20's, sometimes higher

    Boots: Cow kings 13-20, sanders until you can use waterwalks

    Belt+glove I like deaths, other good ones are string at 29, bloodfists instead of deaths gloves.

    Weapon: Clegs sword, or a max'd 6 socket mil pick on melee builds, IAS on most javs is key.

    I guess its a hard question to answer, how do you tell whats valuable... just try to learn whats "ideal" for each common build, and get as close to it as you can.

    As for the shield, its decent, nothing great. Why? 4 sockets is really nice, but paladin shields can get up to 65%ED 100+AR, which is FAR better for almost every paladin at that level, since hammerdins are not viable till later on.

    hope I helped at least a bit ;)

    -Matt
     
  3. Nolomite

    Nolomite IncGamers Member

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    Terrific info, thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for. People come to the board and ISO the low level set and uniques, so we've got a decent handle on the demand, and therefore the price, of them; it's the rares and magicals we struggle with.


    Someone on the TValues board pointed out the pally shields of choice were the ones with the 'Knight's" mods, rather than the resists. That makes perfect sense, at these low levels.


    Two follow-up questions, specific to level 9 and level 18 melee duellers & their armor: where does their strength usually end up, after items, charms, jewels, gems, and everything else gets applied? Knowing that (just ballpark figures would be great) would help us figure out which armors were usable, which were 'too heavy', and which were not robust enough. Also, If an armor's got 4os, how many would typically get devoted to the -15 req jewels?


    Thanks again for your help, Matt!!
     
  4. Herald of Doom

    Herald of Doom IncGamers Member

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    Anything with 1xx ar and 5x%ed is usable, it gets a little more expensive when you have 11x or higher and 6x%ed. The only shields that people will really pay quite a lot for are the 121ar 65%ed 15%sup shields :)


    Usually lld dont go above 60 str. Sup ancient armors are used by rich people who have -15% jewels with dmg mods, else its stuff like lightplates. Rare armors can be worth quite a lot if they have %defense, -req , 2 open sockets and +life.

    HoD
     
  5. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

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    I'd agree with heraldofDoom on the armors.

    For low levels, some will go to 70 for a gothic plate (or 60 for an eth one) with 4 sockets, it all depends on the build. Generally, if I'm gonna use clegs sword (55 str), I use an eth gothic plate (I also play hardcore, and generally, eth items live longer than the characters, in SC, you might have to replace them...)

    Basically, if its not a barb or paladin, and its level 21 or lower, dont count on 4 socket armors. The only exception that comes to mind is a kicker. Like HoD said, ancient armors are not usually used, since they require -req/dmg jewels to be at all strength efficient.

    As for how many sockets are devoted to -req jewels, unless its a -req//dmg jewel, none. Plain -req jewels mean you might as well lose negligible defense, and gain back a speed bonus from using a lighter armor, since that jewel is taking up a socket, which is really the only reason to be using a heavier armor in the first place...

    You dont actually want a shield with "knights" mod on it, the shields you're looking for for paladins are going to be plain grey or white (white, you;ll have to find in late NM/hell, and socket for 4). You wont find a blue (aka kights) shield with 4 sockets for a LLDer :)

    You're welcome, anytime :)

    -Matt
     
  6. Nolomite

    Nolomite IncGamers Member

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    Sorry for the confusion - I just call the AR/ED mod on a shield 'Knight's Mod" out of habit - I did not mean the actual blue shield called "Knight's whatever Shield of whatever".

    Oddly enough, it's the 4os Ancient armors that people ISO on the trade board, and request price checks for on the TV board. I had (erroneously) formed the opinion that these were standard LLD gear. Glad to know now that they are the exceptions.


    This information is not only perfect, but looks to be complete as well - this is as much detail on LLD armor and shields as we'll ever need, and gives us a great base of knowlege with which to evaluate items for people.

    Bless you!

    Nolomite
     
  7. Rampageoh

    Rampageoh IncGamers Member

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    All the Elite level 9s use either 4os Superior Ancient or 4os Superior Gothic armors. The stuff that brings in the big prices are the 15ed variaties, Also the same goes for Mask and Crowns. We all want the 15ed ones. For Barbs everyone is looking for Jawbone or Fanged helms with 2-3 sockets and +3 to Masteries and +3 to shout or Bash or Both. Druid Pelts with 3 os and +3 to Wearbear or Werewolf and + to Oak sage and Lyca are also in demand.
    3os 15ed Superior Blade Talons, 6os 15Ed/3ar Superior Military Picks and 5os 15ed Superior Flails are the weapons of choice. 12DTM Vulpine Bone Shield of Deflection w/2os, 4os Rondache w/ 65ED/121AR and rare shields with FHR/DeflectionMods and 2os are HOT! Any charms with 15Life AND mana/AR or Def whether it be a LC or SC is highly sought after. Rare boots w/ FHR/AR/3 DEX. Jewels with more than 8Max or 6 MIN and any other mod like _15REQ/ 30+ AR/ 8+DTM/ 5 Life/ 3 Dex will make you rich quick. Any of the above items will fetch somewhere between one soj and ten or more soj.
    More common items that will fetch a reasonable price are:
    Death Gloves and Sash
    Sigons Gloves Belt and Boots
    Hotspurs
    Hsaurus Boots and Belt
    Pelta Lunata
    Umbral Disc
    Angelics Ammy and Rings
    Cow KIng Boots
    That is just to mention a few.
     
  8. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

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    I mostly agree, though I'd wager this is a non-ladder LLD summary. On ladder, especially hardcore ladder, people are not usually going to spend the time getting 7 jewels (3 hat, 4 armor), maybe more (weapon) duel modded jewels.
    99% of the time, people will go for single mod, +max jewels (on hardcore ladder, probably less on SC, since the jewels are not apt to "dissipear" when you die) on ladder. The richer folks will go for perfect single mod damage jewels, and some double mod jewels, +max and another, however, unless you're SC non ladder, its VERY rare someone plans a build around loads of perfect max//-req jewels.

    That said, I agree with everything else, except that values on them will also change across "game types" (ladder/nonladder and sc/hc).

    -Matt
     
  9. GIR

    GIR Banned

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    Good useful info here guys, thanks. I'm sure I'll be adding some of it to my Evaluations Guide within the next couple of days.
     
  10. Rampageoh

    Rampageoh IncGamers Member

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    Yeah Matt I was talking Non-Ladder. I find that the vast majority of VLLD and most LLD are on Non. This is especially true of VLLD which is my passion where it is not unusual to have a year or more invested in an Elite character. My Lvl 9 JavaZon, Lil_KiraSin is now 4 years old. People that play hardcore would never make an investment like that in a character nor would most Ladder players because the Ladder would reset in a few months or a year and you would either have to go back to playing non-ladder (like I did) or start all over again. Sorry, I should have stated that in my first post.
     
  11. Cyberwaste

    Cyberwaste IncGamers Member

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    I'm ALMOST positive this wasn't mentioned when I read through this entire thread, but for most good lld barbs you would want Ornate plates with the "Holy" mod and some other mods because of the massive defense. Although I do think that this armor is very hard to get and expensive especially when it has more than 2 sockets on it. So if your making an lld barb and aren't very rich I wouldn't go for this armor. :lol:
     

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