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Skill and monster progression

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Archile, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. Archile

    Archile Diabloii.Net Member

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    Skill and monster progression

    Hey guys,
    I have been looking at the skills for all characters recently and i'v come to notice how low the damage is for all spells.

    Example:This is the wizard spell Blizzard
    Rank 1: 6-10 damage per second for 3 seconds.

    I realise that there is alot to improve % dmg. But 6-10 dmg at level one with only 3-5 as max rank. I don't remember any skill synergies in d3 and even if we had them we are very limited to spend on synergies with the allowable skill points being lowish.
    Okay skill runes will be powerful but can they amp a spell that much?

    I guess in the demo's and d3 videos all looked good in normal, but when you get to hell in a max game it just doesn't seem like your going to even hurt them. Okay blizzard must be hiding something or i'm I just missing out on something? :scratchchin:
     
  2. MortIIs

    MortIIs Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Well higher lvl get the more skill lvl you'll have + the better items improving stats/skills ofc
     
  3. The Rockman

    The Rockman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Well for starters STATs increase Spell damage now and items have high +% spell damage IE +100% spell damage will be a common item mod for casters (Barbs get +X% damage on there skills).

    As for other way produced out of the hat:
    Maybe there's a level component to the base damage as well (IE lvl X Wizz Rank 1 Blizzard does 6-10 damage where as a a lvl X+10 Wiz might have 16-20 base damage with the same skill)

    Also the Rank damage increase is not doing to be 6-10 8-12 etc but is likely to be more like 6-10 16-20 etc.
     
  4. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Did you base this conclusion on a comparison between known skill damage values and monster health numbers that you just made up, or what? :)


     
  5. Archile

    Archile Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    I guess i based on d2 haha ( i know i shouldn't compare them ) but in d2 you started in normal with dmg likewise to d3's known skill dmg. BUT you had lvl 20 spells with massive synergies.Which you needed by hell because monster health went from like 10-500(normal) to like 2,000-10,000(hell) roughly.

    I guess i was wandering if monster progression would be close to how it was in d2 or would it be different all together. If it was to follow in d2 footprint , then how would your spell's progression keep up? With minimal lvls and no synergies


     
  6. The Rockman

    The Rockman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Like I stated before Moons post theres high % spell damage boosts in D3 also we have got any true scaling info on skills. BTW an extra thing I just thought of maybe difficulty mode has an effect on skills like Blizzard?
     
  7. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Well, as you pointed out, D3 is using a slightly different progression model, so before we know exactly how that'll scale and how much HP the average monster has, it's impossible to answer your question. :)

    However, I can guarantee you that you don't need to worry - Blizzard will balance all these things in due time, whether they do so by making your skill damage scale rapidly, or just by reducing monster HP so there is no need for high skill damage. It's just a matter of adjusting the numbers.


     
  8. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    as others alluded to, you're thinking in d2 terms. spells in d3 are like items in previous diablo games. they are a small base number that stats and other things modify to create your actual damage. with spells, attributes and items will largely control your damage. +%spell damage mods are as important as +%dmg mods are on weapons.

    You'd no sooner use the base skill damage in D3 than you could a base white weapon in D2.
     
  9. yovargas

    yovargas Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Funny, I was on this very site 10+ years ago arguing that Blizz should try and find a way to make the low level skills retain their viability throughout the game. Most people at the time called me stupid for that. I even recall our very own Flux telling me something along the lines of "It's a level 1 skill - it's supposed to be crappier than your level 30!" I'm glad to see we've all learned the errors of our ways. ;)
     
  10. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    i will fully admit to being one that said a level 1 skill was supposed to be worthless. doubt you will get many others who will admit it but i know for sure i did lol
     
  11. Andy2702

    Andy2702 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Different skill level with varying damage allowed for customization and uniqueness.

    +% spell damage seems like a developer's lazy way out of designing each skill individually. Oh, and it's like World of Warcraft. UNLESS they make items vary their spell power addition (for example, an item can spawn +5% while another same item can spawn +10%, then they can have Diablo 2esque customization). Without any information past what we already know on items, I can only pray now that Jay Wilson wasn't stoned when he designed items.



     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2010
  12. fnwc

    fnwc Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Blizzard (and Jay Wilson, for that matter) don't make decisions on a multi-million dollar franchise frivolously or simply out of laziness.

    The whole purpose of +% spell damage is to even out the equipment requirements among classes, to avoid the D2 situation where certain classes were less equipment dependent than others.


     
  13. konfeta

    konfeta Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    It's the correct way to design skills in an item centric game. Spell damage that doesn't scale with equipment only works for short games like DotA where each stage of character development lasts 10-15 minutes and heroes are designed to be weak or strong at certain stages of the game. In Diablo, all 5 classes are supposed to be equally powerful at all levels.
    Every other attribute we know of varies. Why would you assume otherwise?
     
  14. Andy2702

    Andy2702 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Good, looks like they finally kept something good from Diablo 2 in Diablo 3.



     
  15. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Skill and monster progression

    Well that was the D1 and then D2 design. Like it or not.

    Lower level skills were replaced by better ones that did more or less the same thing. It worked okay in D1, with skill books. In D2 it was less clever, given finite skill points and no respecs, and invariably led to point hoarding and rushing and low level boring play. The fact that 90% of D2's balancing went on from lvl 1-20, and 99% went into normal difficulty was a problem when 99% of player time was ultimately spent in hell difficulty.

    How could beginning D2 skills have been made viable in later difficulties? Huge scaling up at higher skill points, maybe. They'd have had to put greater limits on how fast you could put points into them, though. If a Lvl 1 skill with 20 points was equivalent to a lvl 30 skill with 20 points, you obviously couldn't have that at lvl 21.

    In retrospect, heretical though it feels to admit, the D2 skills weren't imaginative enough or varied enough. fire arrow > exploding arrow > immo arrow. cold arrow > freezing arrow. 3 levels of lightning spear hit. etc. They didn't think up enough individual, varied skills to have 10 or 15 viable active skill options at higher levels. So they had to make skills that replaced earlier ones.

    On that front, the D3 devs seem to be FAR ahead of D2's. There's so much more skill variety, and there will be hugely greater build variety.



     

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