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Skelie Mages+Posion Nova+Lower Resist

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Varnon, May 31, 2005.

  1. Varnon

    Varnon IncGamers Member

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    Skelie Mages+Posion Nova+Lower Resist

    So... I was thinking... Nobody really uses skelliton mages.
    But say you had a posion nova necro... and he maxed posion nova, explosion, and dagger to get the most damage out of posion nova. Thats 60 points... Then to increase the effectiveness 20 points in lower resist...
    Thats only 80 points out of like 110 max... not that many ever get to use all 110...

    Could Mages be used with lower resist for a good build? You could almost max skelliton mage and skelliton mastery and do all the posion/lower resist stuff. You would decrease the posion damage in the end by trying, but you would have several other mages fighting with you.

    Anybody tried this build? It seems like it could be good. A strong merc could do most of the tanking as the necro applied the appropriate curse. And then lower reist ups the damnage of posion nova and the mages. Plus you can cover 4 elements that way.
    Mages don't have any numbers listed on the skill screen for life and damnage. Is this actualy viable?
     
  2. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    It's been talked about but I'm too lazy to dig up the thread. The answer, I think, is YES. It's totally doable, although with skeletons of any kind comes the need for at least one point in Skeleton Mastery, as well as another three points for Summon Resist or bosses will simply blast your skellies off the map. Don't forget that it takes 7 points to get to lower resist, but it's really not necessary or prudent to put more than one point in since good plus skill gear will take it to the point of severely diminishing returns and this build is going to be tight on the skill points.

    So, to max everything that's more like 110 if you don't want Corpse Explode for two more points. I'm not certain, but I suspect Skeletal mage damage relies more evenly on Skeleton Mastery than skeleton warriors do, so rather than taking the typical skellie/poison hybrid strategy of only putting one point into mastery, you may want to max or at least put 10-15 in SM and leave the remaining poison synergies for last since those last 10 points come at the expense of thousands of Baal runs.

    In my experience, Poison Nova works just fine with 50 points in it and the ideal poison equipment (triple trangs, Death's Web). You could supplement with facets to improve its performance.

    If you don't believe me, I have the worst DWeb possible, no facets at all, am about 6-7 synergies short of 60 and my nova still kills faster than anything else I've ever used in Hell. Few enemies can take more than a couple novas. Most in Act I only need one.

    The annoying things about this build are that it won't be complete until LATE in the game and you will have to spend countless hours unsummoning poison mages every time they pop up since they hardly do any damage and are redundant anyway. Also, bosses could be trouble since poison kills them painfully slowly and I'm not sure how it goes with mages alone, but they are more fragile so could get wiped out by the more powerful elemental attacks. You may have to rely on a strong merc in certain scenarios (holy freeze would probably be ideal).

    There are safer, probably more effective builds, IMO, but this one should do well with good gear and a smart player.
     
  3. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    While I do use Mages with my Skelemancer, they won't be overly effective in your build. Their damage can do a bit of killing, esp. with Lower Resist, but you probably aren't going to put a lot of +skills into the summon tree, which isn't exactly helping them. And while mages, at least at higher levels, aren't 1-hit-kills for monsters, they are considerably more fragile than warriors.
     
  4. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    That's what prebuffing with AoKL and a +3 summoning head is for. Focus your remaining nonessential poison gear on +all skills and you won't lose as many mages when you switch back to DWeb and Trang's Shield.

    I also think Enigma would be important for keeping those mages focused and Infinity on your merc makes almost any elemental build viable.

    Those two points in corpse explode are probably worth shaving off a couple skeleton mastery skills for as well.

    Regardless, this is not going to be a happy untwinked build. I suspect you're really going to need the gear to be pleased with it.
     
  5. batuchka

    batuchka IncGamers Member

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    I agree with Pherdnut : additional points into Lower Resist aren't that worth it due to diminishing returns. There is a table available for respective levels of mastery/mages @ Arreat Summit and one could always go AOKL+ Golemlord Head and summon GCs to buff em up :D There are reports of necros using Enigma + mages that a nice stream of ele goodness is experienced from mages hehe. But ya for the rich : LR +Conviction from Infinity stacks in -resist (except poison resist)
     
  6. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Welcome Newcomer to The Darkness. Grab a brew :drink: and feel free to raise some corpses.

    Yes. There was a thread on this a while back. Use the search feature.
     
  7. Damric

    Damric IncGamers Member

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    You are better off placing 1 point in all skills in the summon tree. This gives you any golem. This gives you some revives. Revives make good tanks even with 1 point in Mastery. Then I would max Lower Resist to get the huge range. If you are worried about poison immunes, try using a Full Trang's Set. The Firewall + Lower Resist can kill creatures (and players lol) in hell.
     
  8. Varnon

    Varnon IncGamers Member

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    yeah i tried a search
    and tried again after you guys said there was one allready... found this thread but no others, not that i doubt you

    anyway... so basicaly mages end up useless, cause no matter what you did there would allways be a better way
    thats totally lame... as much better as 1.10 is some changes still need to be made

    as for playing untwincked with non uber items, i totally don't do that, i don't have the time to collect stuff like that and it totally ruins new characters for me...

    but thanks for the info etc
     
  9. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Mages aren't useless. Just don't expect them to be the "best" option. As with most builds there is always a better way. However sometimes we do things because we enjoy them. rickcarson has made a few LoM builds and Mages-hybrids. They function rather well.
     
  10. Damric

    Damric IncGamers Member

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    Mages are actually very useful if your entire build is focused on mages. I'll submit my guide soon maybe this week on my Lich Lord.
     
  11. rickcarson

    rickcarson IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, I did the LoM + PNooba thing.

    It was: "ehh... okay, I guess".

    Keep in mind thats the untwinked, not tripped out on 'way out ublar gearzorz' point of view (eg no Enigmas or Death's Webs). Also that I'm usually entering Hell at level 59-60. No doubt with another 20 levels and a Death's Web I'd have gotten a similar 'OMG' reaction to Pherdnut's.

    The basic problem is that there is too much to do. Eg:
    (a) Spot monsters (ideally before they spot you)
    (b) Apply some crowd control
    (c) Cast Lower Resist
    (d) Get into position
    (e) dodge all sorts of random damage flying around (especially in hell)
    (f) Cast PNova

    With this sort of build its got a very good offense, but I'm not really all that comfortable getting up close to the monsters on Hell difficulty.

    Generally the way I play a LoM is to stick fairly close to the Mages... so running out to position myself for the PNova is really dangerous compared to my normal style of play.

    If I was more aggressive, had better gear, and was faster on the hotkeys I'd probably like the build more.

    Personally *my recommendation* is that you not look at Mages for the 'last 30 pts', but I recommend to you.... the humble Revive. If you have a steady stream of mana (*cough* Insight *uncough*) then Revives are your best friend in the summon tree. And I'd focus on weight of numbers more than mastery.

    So the build looks like this:

    60 Poison
    1 Teeth
    1 CE
    -----
    62 Points

    1 in all summons (more in Revive and maybe mastery much later on)
    -----
    10 Points

    1+ in Lower Resist and prereqs
    -----
    7 Points

    : 79 points total

    ... so you'd have completed the foundation of the build potentially by level 67.

    However I'd probably get my Revive to 10 in preference to maxing out synergies early (I'd still max the synergies, just a bit later on). So I'd try to have about 12 points saved at level 29, then at 30 put a point into FG, PN, RV and LR. Then from 31-40 pump PN and RV. Prior to lvl 30 you lack any big killing ability, so either twink good low level gear, or party with other people. For killing big D pre lvl 30 for instance, I usually have a +3 Bone Spear wand and +3 Bone Spear fetish, and just snipe him from a distance. For normal play pre lvl 30 your Posion Explosion is probably your MVP (believe it or not), especially for doorways and other restricted areas.

    If I wasn't going to put 10 points into Revive, but only say 5ish at level 30+ (and more later), then I'd put the extra points into Poison Explosion. (Or maybe PDagger if I wanted to pretend to be a meleemancer for a couple of levels - I've tried both and I think the extra points in PE has a slight edge over early points in PD)

    The Revive's fulfill a triple role: Defense, Offense (against Poison Immunes) and helping with the Boss killing. Don't underestimate the importance of Defense, as the extra bodies will help keep you and your merc alive in quite hectic situations. Also vs bosses providing the boss with a target rich environment will help preserve your merc.
     
  12. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    Maybe you should read my second post where... :eek: we're 100% in agreement with each other on that.
     

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