Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

[AnimeCraze]

Re: Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

What's your chance to hit? I find that within 2 volley, just about every cow is hit (they are all blue + green). It might not be the exact 1 volley advertised, but at 7 frame nobody is really going to care. She isn't decked out, but does have WF + faith merc, and AR charms so that her AR is over 14k.

 

[WrongdayJ]

Re: Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

OK,

I decided to fully test this thing before posting any further, so that I might be able to fully understand this Multi-Pierce thing fully (I mean, I did before, but now I am 'refreshed').

The Zon I used was a Level 90. She was packing 23 in Multi and 23 in Magic arrow (good thing, too. . .read on. . .) A few in Pierce and Penetrate (to get that 100%. Valk is level 17 after the +skills. (another good thing).

Her gear:
Crown of Thieves, Treachery, Razortail, LoH, Waterwalks, Windforce, blah-blah. . .not exotic by any means. . .just whatever she had on at the time . . .She is my test mule. Merc was packing Faith. This Zon IS NOT a glass-cannon. I play hardcore in Hell and Glass Cannons don't cut the mustard there. . .so she has about 280 in dex (after gear bonuses) and 200 in Vit. She does have a butt load of charms. Her Multi damage is roughly 3k average (with the Venom from Treachery :azn. Magic arrow damage was quite a bit higher- upwards of roughly 5k. Again, not bad, but not great either. Chance to hit was hanging in at about 90%. I'm simply testing here.

Now to test I went to the Cow Level and 'er rip.

Honestly- I was underwhelmed. I was piercing 3-4 cows deep on average, with the occasional 5-6 cow'er on a good shot. And that's about the only thing I can say that went well. I basically got my booty handed to me. I ended up dropping the Multi (after running out of Mana- even with a +100 to mana from a ring, a SoJ, and a Cresent moon amulet) and plunking with Magic arrow and didn't notice a drop in killing speed. I ran for my life. Cows are pretty tough in Hell, but this Multi-pierce thing is the Bomb, right?

Bottom line: It sucked about as hard as my last WandaZon build.

So I went to the Frozen tundra. . .thinking that the 6000+ Hp Skeleton archers would be easier. After all that was the original area that spawned this debate.
I was not 'breezing' thru here at all. Packs of *normal* skeletons took multiple spammings of Multi to drop. And not all of them were hit with each volley, so (like I thought) the ones that did not die after a few volleys (and all surrounding -much tougher- champion/unique packs and thorn beasts . . .) started pummeling me. I had to basically walk slowly until I barely saw an enemy. . .then SOAK the area with multi's (3-4 for starters and then clean up with Magic Arrow- which ain't bad when maxed.)

It was not fun, it was not pretty, and I highly do NOT recommend this strategy for this area. But I can see using it in other areas in the game. Just not in the outdoor areas of Act V.

In all fairness, though, I was not built to the hilt and I think that with some high-end equipment I could have killed a bit easier- but then again- wands of Dim Vision are common and do not require exotic equipment :scratch:.

And this stratagy WOULD work really well throughout Nightmare though and was killer in the Chaos Santuary.

'Blind and shoot' works ALOT better and is even quite nice in Hardcore (where I originally started using it).

 

[AnimeCraze]

Re: Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

1) Are you playing P1 or P8...... I had absolutely no problems with lower player counts. On high player counts it won't put them into hit recovery, I know, but it should certainly be OK with P1.
2) My gear is not much better than yours (well, she does have fort). So I don't get it, as I am using a WF with merc faith as well.
3) WF should leech back more than enough mana, so running out of mana should be impossible in cows. (unless you have so much +skills and so much multi that you are wasting like 40 mana per shot)
4) SoJ and +100 mana ring......, can you please tell me your AR and chance to hit? I had 2 ravenfrosts and maxed penetrate. So I was hitting 95%. Edit: Can you just tell us your AR? I mean, I can't tell what your chance to hit was vs towards.
5) Edit: I don't quite see 3k damage, even with treachery, without fort. I am dishing out only 2.5k or so.

P.S. Don't max multi. Any real multi zon player will tell you to only get say 15 or so arrows. I dumped the other points into strafe, penetrate, and valk.

 

[synx]

Re: Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

You are correct about multishot being terrible in cows, I had thought it'd be amazing but it takes me several volleys to kill a group of cows (17k ar, so each volley is pretty much piercing every single one), while my fishy can wipe out a group in a single amped CE, or 1x blizz from my sorc.

For a5 around shenk, that is one of my favorite areas to multi in. I just point and spam until the life/mana leech animation ceaces, move up, and loot.

For the archers its just multi multi, move, repeat and they go down easy.

I've all but abandoned my zon though after making that summon necro, MUCH more survivability and killing power.

 

[AnimeCraze]

Re: Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

I actually like my zon for areas say chaos better than my venom/summoner. They kill the roughly the same speed, just no IM problems. The venom/summoner is rather decked out, too, save for still lacking a few skillers. No argument about they survive better, especially say in WSK.

It does take a few volleys to kill a group of cows, but I am not complaining. (if I am, I would have made a javazon instead)

@WrongdayJ: If you are making changes to correct data errors and major editions, can you PLEASE do it in a new post? It's very confusing to read otherwise. It's also definitely not fun to edit my own posts to be consistent with yours.

 

[BlushNine]

Re: Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

Actually your chance to hit and the target's chance to block do not affect your chance to pierce. I tested this personally. You can too. Get an ama and a pally, hostile and you will see all combinations of pierce, with hit shots, missed shots, blocked and not blocked. I'm not sure about dodge/evade/avoid though I would suspect the same.

Yes, it sounds stupid but thats how it works. You can block an arrow and it may still pierce.

 

[AnimeCraze]

Re: Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

Interesting, then there should be absolutely no reason why it only pierces 3 or 4 cows, as from what I heard the pierce cap is 5.

 

[WrongdayJ]

Re: Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

@ AnimeCraze- Sorry man. I wasn't expecting such a fast response.
I had started typing from memory and realized I had to make some last second corrections. My bad. It's just that I've seen some folks get flamed (sometimes by mod's) for not using the edit function during the window of time allowed and just making another post.

The arrows disappeared after the 3rd or 4th Cow. . .most of the time. Like I said, there were some that continued on and did pierce and Poison cows 5, and beyond from time to time. I was watching for arrows to pierce and not poison, or pierce and not hit, or some other effect, but as I was also trying to stay alive and continue shooting it was difficult to stay put and do any long term viewing.

Regardless- I was almost instantly overwhelmed. The Cows 5 rows back weren't the problem. It was the ones I couldn't get out of my face.

I think I would like Multi more if more than one arrow could hit a target. . .like Charged Bolts. I have the same fundamental problem with the Teeth skill.

But I can say that the experiment (regardless of outcome) was entertaining and worth the time taken. If for no other reason than to satisfy my own curiosity.

 

[bowdiddly]

Re: Skeleton archers in LOD 1.11 hell part V

1.11, non-ladder, battle.net. I can notice missiles slowed noticeably to a crawl. There's a few things you should know about SM.
1) When you cast it, monsters within range of the zon gets their missile slowed. They will have the slow missile animations on their head (looks like inner sight).
2) Missiles that are already fired are NOT slowed. Only missiles fired after the creature is "cursed" are slowed.
3) If you engage a new pack of enemies, you must cast SM again. SM targets monsters like a curse, as you have said.

OK, thanks. I guess I didn't notice before hell/frozen tundra because before then, I never found any monsters much of a challenge.

Slow Missles doesn't stack, right? You can only slow missles one time? And to "curse" the monster you have to have a clear path (not behind a tree)?

One of the problems with frozen tundra is that some of the "curse" stuff above the head is hard to see.