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Singer Barb?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by LordofWar, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. LordofWar

    LordofWar IncGamers Member

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    Singer Barb?

    Whats the most damage any1 ever been able to pull out of this 1?


    Im hearing lows 1000's
     
  2. Doctor Clock

    Doctor Clock IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    That's about right. You can play around with it on the skill calc.
     
  3. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    2023 - 2070 personally could probably pump that up for the expense of alot of mana
     
  4. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    +3 Warcries/+3 War Cry Magic Barb Pelt
    Any +2 Armor
    'Heart of the Oak' x2
    Arachnid Mesh
    Sounding Amulet
    Any +1 Ring x2
    Annihilus, Torch, 9x Sounding
    Battle Command

    War Cry: 2208 - 2254, 63 Mana Cost

    It's not ideal, the mana cost is way too high. 1000-1500 is a comfortable level for PvM.
     
  5. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    Don't quite argee here. This is one of those "don't put a single point in energy, energy is the devil" reasonings ;) . If you get a good mana regen rate, and invest some in mana, you can get a barb to regen that much. I'll give the numbers a spin when I get home and can access the arreat summit for the damn formula (I'm at work behind a firewall that blocks half the net - the juicy part :( ). I've done the math for infinicasting teleport, fireball, charge, CE,... and all of those have infinicast possibilities. And with the high lvl BO you'll get with this char I think it's fairly easily acchievable.



     
  6. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    forgot the shrine :grin:
    i agree with this completely.
    i'll be interested in seeing this. will you be going for the 105% bp?



     
  7. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    Yeah, I'll be interested in seeing a good set-up that centralizes around max damage too. Just how much energy are we talking about here though? 1 point of energy gives 1 point of mana to a Barbarian, with BO at 180%, 50% from SoJ, and 5% from Arachnid, that's a 235% boost to mana, so 200 points in energy would give you ~700 mana (would have been ~2400 life), which is around only 11 casts of War Cry. :(



     
  8. TemplarRoadkill

    TemplarRoadkill IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    hmm i solved my short mana prob by throwing few Serpent's SC but if you stuff your inventory full of charms like that your total dmg would suffer :)



     
  9. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    My current ladder Singer uses a different set up and finishes at level 94.
    Skills
    20 Warcry plus synergies
    20 Battle orders
    1 Battle Command

    1 Iron skin
    1 Natural Resists

    1 Leap

    Gear
    2 20 barb (cost me lem) no other stats to note socketed perfect sapphire
    Enigma Mage Plate
    Arachnid mesh
    3 warcrys 10 FCR amulet
    2x soj
    Frostburns
    Silkweaves

    Now I have In my possession 2x Hotos for bo switch and occasional use but these proved the worst possible weapons for PvP and PvM. Now Wizardspike seems like the only option but to be honest. Wizardspike still doesnt cut it because Mana based on character level isn't effected by bo which is a waste.

    The best possible set up in my opinion is 1x spirit and 1x wizardspike with the richer people moving onto the dual spirits for the mass mana 2 all skills and huge FHR. Spirits only weakness is the resists and if you can make that up elsewhere Spirit is the better choice.

    Now in top end gear 1 point in natural resists can provide 60+ all resistance with 1 point in it.

    Quick basic calculation
    60 Natural resists
    75 wizardspike
    30 anya(temp)
    20 Torch+anni

    185

    My current singer stats are
    110 FCR
    86 FHR

    6.5k Health
    1.7k mana
    50 all resists in hell
    1931 - 1977 Warcry damage.

    I need a much better circlet to safely lose the second wizard spike its kinda risky running around with 2x spirit.

    Reason for leap is for mostly for PvP to stun sorcs a little to make the initial warcry easier to land.

    With my Ideal Circlet/Tiara and some more mana charms I think I could creep into the 2.6k mark without a sacrifice in damage.
     
  10. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    i did testrun the build with almost(no barb helm) perfect gear.

    Realistically though, it would be better to have one of the weapons as beast, and reaper/botd merc weapon(or use brand bow on a low defense setup) as merc is the main damage source, lol.
     
  11. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    Here's the formula for mana regen:

    Mana Regenerated per second = 25 * [[256 * max_mana / (25 * 120)] * (%Mana Regeneration/100 + 1] / 256

    As you can see, both mana regeneration rate and max mana define how much you regen. Since you can't get mana regeneration from charms, I'm gonna give a possible setup following the one above and calculate the regen rate. I've gone for 3 things: 105% FCR bp, mana regen and max mana.

    adjusted build:

    +3 Warcries/+3 War Cry Magic Barb Pelt
    any +2 armour (no caster-friendly +2 armours around)
    'Heart of the Oak' x2 (40% FCR, +10% max mana)
    Arachnid mesh (20% FCR, +5% max mana)
    sounding amulet
    2x SoJ (+25% max mana)
    magefists (20% FCR, 25% mana regen)



    So now for the actual math:


    First we determine how much mana we actually need:

    105% FCR = 8 frame warcry = 3.125 warcry/second
    65 mana * 3.125 = 203.125 mana/second needed for infinicast warcry.


    We have 25% mana regen on our char (which is quite low), so I'm gonna do 2 calculations: with or without perfect insight.

    From the mana regen formula I got the following:

    max_mana = mps*256*25*100/((regen/100+1)*25*256)


    so the mana needed without insight (25% regen) = 16240 mana
    and with insight (725% regen) = 2460 mana



    So if you use insight you need to hit 2460 mana after BO and all the bonusses to max mana on the gear. Should be doable imho. How much hard mana points this is depends on your lvl of BO, and I only got data for a < lvl 20 BO (which we allready top on +skills alone). Without any BO and just the ups to max mana on gear, you'd need 1447 hard mana points from gear and points in enery, so depending on how many hard skillpoints you have in BO, you should be able to get away with around 800 mana (guesstimation).



    If there's anyone who can tell me how much %max_mana BO gives at lvl 35 (slvl 1 + skills) and lvl 54 (slvl 20 + skills), I can give you correct numbers. But all in all it seems doable with an investment in energy.



     
  12. Ghoulz

    Ghoulz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    Like to know how you managed 8000/2100 life/mana.


     
  13. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?


    Level 35 - +137%
    Level 40 - +152%
    Level 45 - +167%
    Level 50 - +182%
    Level 54 - +194%

    Most could get 45-50

    And he used the absolute perfect gear possible
    So 9 45 lifers and 10 20/17s.

    So around 1111 after bo just from charms.
    Although personally I would say that the Perfect barb helm was actually a tiara like the below.

    2 Barb skills
    20 FCR
    90 mana
    60 life
    2 Soc circlet
    2 perfect sapphire



     
  14. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    For a practical build you're probably right in using a tiara. People were just saying fully maxed out warcry is to hard on mana, and I gave an example of how it's possible. I wouldn't really call it a practical build all around, but it's definately possible :D .


    So for the last calculations:

    With lvl 1 + skills BO you'll need 1188 hard mana points from gear and stats
    with lvl 20 + skills BO you'll need 932 mana

    And the previous posts show these are attainable values.



    Last remark: This ammount of mana allows you to continually cast Warcry without seeing a dip in your mana bulb (it's allways full), we're talking 3 cries/second every second. So in practice, you could do with less mana, since you'll also be running around not using mana, casting other (less mana demanding) skills like taunt, howl, leap, teleport,...
     
  15. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    its pure vit and lifers & 17/20s so with high lvl bo it goes uuuppp high



     
  16. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    Hm, that's pretty cool. :D

    @kardinaal: I'm not sure why, but when I used your numbers (203, 725%) in the formula, I am getting Max_Mana = ~2900, not 2460.

    Max_Mana = (203.125 * 256 * 3000) / (8.35 * 256 * 25) = 156,000,000 / 53,440 = 2919

    Or am I getting my simple algebra wrong? :d

    So it looks like it would be next to impossible to infinite-cast without a merc carrying 'Insight'? That's somewhat disappointing... :\

    ---

    With an 'Insight' build (700% Mana Regen), and the following theorycrafted high-end but reasonable build:

    Level 90

    +2 Barb/2os Circlet or Pelt with 2x PSapphire (76 Mana)
    'Enigma'
    'HotO' x2 (30% Mana)
    Magefist (25% Regen)
    Arachnid Mesh (5% Mana)
    Caster Boots (20 Mana, 5% Mana, 10% Mana Regen)
    Sounding Amulet
    2x SoJ (50% Mana, 40 Mana)

    7x Serpent Small Charms (119 Mana)

    +40 NRG = +40 Non-BOable Mana

    Slvl 46 BO (6 Skillers, Anni, Torch, leaving space for H.Cube and 2x8 slots) = 170%

    Putting it into the formula:

    Regen = 735%
    MPS = 203

    Total Mana Needed = ~2900

    ~2900 - [40 = Anni/Torch +NRG Mana] = ~2850
    ~2850 / [3.6 = BO + %Mana] = ~790
    ~790 - [99 = Character Levels] = ~690
    ~690 - [255 = Gear Mana] = ~435

    ---

    So we're lacking approximately 435 Mana = 435 points of Energy. :badteeth:

    With Frostburns, it's approximately 385 Mana = 385 points of Energy. :badteeth:

    Unless my numbers/calculations are wrong, it looks like infinitecast is quite costly stat point-wise. Of course, judging by zrk's video, you don't need infinitecast (his Barb's mana dips, but regenerates fast enough when he's not using War Cry).

    ---

    zrk, can you do a video with my theoretical gear, and see if it's manageable?

    Clvl 90 Barb, with the above listed gear, Anni, Torch, 6x Sounding Skillers only, 7x 17/20's, and make the circlet a plain 2/20 FCR/2os with 2x P.Sapphires, keep the same stat distribution as your previous barb. This would be a lot more realistic, and I wanna see if it's still manageable to keep the mana bulb full.
     
  17. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    instead of trying to raise your mana to extremely high heights, why not lower the wc level? also many times adding +mana items adds more mana over all than %max mana. try your calculations with wizzys and/or spirits and +100 mana rings.
     
  18. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    Spirit + wizard spike is my personal recommendation as a

    20 Arach
    50 Wizardspike
    35 Spirit

    105 fcr

    The straight mana from spirit adds over 300 mana to my barb per sword after bo.

    My barb
    dual hoto - 894
    dual wizzy - 1374
    1 wizzy 1 spirit - 1630
    dual spirit - 1721

    Best value is wizzy + spirit if you can get 1 point in natural resists it will give you most of the resists you need.
     
  19. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    Sorry, cba to make more vids atm.. and the gear is almost identical to what i used anyway.
    As far as lowering cost through lower level, it would work but again to compensate for it something extra damage is necessary and beast or brand would provide that since merc is doing most of the dps anyway
     
  20. Ghoulz

    Ghoulz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Singer Barb?

    That's ludicrous. Im packed to the teeth with 55+ mana gcs and a few scs and Im only at 1500 mana.


     

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