Side switching between light and dark

[Zeek]

Side switching between light and dark

I'm trying to think through my lore and I can't remember if there are any demons who are purified by the light. I know we have heroes and angels who are corrupted by the darkness. Can anybody think of a character who goes the other way?

Note: I haven't read any Diablo novels. Feel free to post spoilers. If you don't want to be spoiled about the novels then run for your life! :crazyeyes:

 

[ThulRasha]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

Nope, no fallen demons (as the other demons would see it). As far as I know.

If you start reading book one of the sin war, you might think that there is one who is somewhat friendly, but of course this is for selfish evil goals.

 

[Zeek]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

So, what does that say about the power of the two sides? I would say that dark has a distinct advantage. They've been able to persuade or force people to their side. While the light seems to be unable to do the same. I find that to be somewhat interesting.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

There was really only one fallen Angel. That would have been Izual. And even so, he didn't walk willingly into the darkness. He was captured during an attempt assault at the Hellforge and, while a prisoner, only then corrupted against his will.

Izual words when one first encounters him are very revealing of his sad fate and the "tortured soul" (as described by Tyrael) within: "Save yourself!"

The only other Angel (and an archangel, no less) that seemed a little off place was Inarius. However, he never fell. He just didn't agree with the Great Conflict and decided to join like-minded angels and demons to leave in peace in a world they'd create; Sanctuary.

 

[Zeek]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

Yeah I guess purely going from light to dark is not as obvious, but if you consider "good humans" switching then there's much more corruption going on. All the heroes of D1 were corrupted by the darkness. Pretty much anyone who gets close to a soulstone gets corrupted. There seems to be a lot more power to the darkness.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

I'd think it more tempting.

Traditionally, in the Judaic-Christian religions from which much of the Occidental world bases their believes, the forces of evil work on the basis of promise of power, whereas the forces of good on the premise of sacrifice. For most human beings caught between these two forces, sacrifice is against their natural survival instinct, whereas power is certainly a part of their dreams. Meanwhile the actual forces are pretty much balanced since often their fight is depicted as an "eternal struggle between good and evil".

So, yes. I'd say that in some ways the dark side has the potential to be more powerful. But in contrast, the forces of good are usually depicted as united and like-minded. Everyone working for the same goal, while the forces of evil often battle and destroy themselves. Going back to the Diablo lore, this happens constantly and one of the reasons the Hells haven't invaded Sanctuary yet may be tied to the fact Belial and Azmodan have been (or had been) fighting the Prime Evils for control of the Hells.

 

[Grug]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

Inarius wasn't corrupted against his will. When you kill him and the angel emerges, he flat out said he was working with the 3 all along. He gave the horadrim the soul stones and taught the primes how to corrupt them.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

Inarius wasn't corrupted against his will. When you kill him and the angel emerges, he flat out said he was working with the 3 all along. He gave the horadrim the soul stones and taught the primes how to corrupt them.

All these things he did after having been captured and corrupted, Grug.

 

[Ouroboros]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

Wait you mean Izual, right Grug?

Regarding Izual's corruption.

After his demon form is defeated, Izual's spirit is released and players can proceed to talk with the fallen angel, completing the quest. Izual goes on to reveal that it was he who first tricked Tyrael into using the soulstones to defeat the Prime Evils though whether this was before or after his corruption is unclear.

Would Inarius count as a "fallen" angel ..? Seening as how he went against the will of the Ingris, consorted with Lilith, and formed Sanctuary?

And to the OP, I don't think anyone ever switched from the Demon side to the Light. Seems like only the good guys are susceptible .. while demons are pretty set in their ways. :nod:

 

[Krugar]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

I must insist

Izual corruption is what led to the events on D1 and D2. Izual was captured while attempting an assault at the Hellforge to stop the making of an evil blade which I can't quiet remember the name... Shadowfang?

He was an hero Angel. Part of a cast of warrior angels who constantly battle the Hells. And he was the greatest of them and the bearer of Azurewrath. Once captured Izual was forced to betray his own kind by the corrupting powers of the prime evils. And only after the deed was done was his spirit contained within a demon's body.

This information is scattered a little over the books which contain much of the game lore. I'd have trouble finding exact quotes from them. But could search if indeed this becomes important. On any case I do insist, Izual was not a traitor, didn't fall on his own accord or consorted with the Prime Evils until after he was captured and corrupted. He was the greatest of the warrior angels and even Tyrael, the Archangel of Justice, pities him for his fate. He was also a very great loss to the Heavens and an angel has yet to rise that could match Izual's dedication, devotion and victories against evil.

EDIT: In fact, the whole Diablo lore seems to fall in a trend in which Demons and Angels alike are pretty much set in their views. The notion of fallen angels is not a straightforward matter. There's however the matter of Inarius which is, I agree, debatable. Personally I do not see him as a fallen Angel, in the traditional sense. This was in fact an Angel that wanted to leave in Peace. But I cannot sustain my view of him very well when considering other aspects of his personality like his wish for the Nephalem to submit and worship him. Perhaps his tentative relationship with Demons ended up affecting him, but the books don't support or contest this claim. There's also the matter that the Heavens do consider the Humans an abomination and want them destroyed. So, between wanting them destroyed and wanting them as lowly worshipers, I'd take the second as more benevolent.

 

[Ouroboros]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

Hmm .. thats really interesting. I never read any of the books. Maybe you can clear this out for me. When I was checking out the DiabloWiki entry for Izual, I reread his speech. Goes like this:

"Tyrael was a fool to have trusted me! You see, it was I who told Diablo and his brothers about the Soulstones and how to corrupt them. It was I who helped the Prime Evils mastermind their exile to your world. The plan we set in motion so long ago cannot be stopped by any mortal agency. Hell itself is poised to spill into your world like a tidal wave of blood and nightmares. You and all your kind...are doomed".

Sounds to me like collaboration on Izzy's part, more than him being coerced into doing it. I know, the lore isn't that clear.

While another source of official Izzy lore says this:

Izual now remains as a dark, tortured soul who is trapped within the forsaken realms of Hell. Despite his valor and strength, his form was twisted by the perverse powers of the Prime Evils. They forced him to betray his own kind and give up Heaven's most guarded secrets. Izual became a corrupt shadow of his former self; a fallen angel trusted neither by Heaven nor Hell.

Now, here it seems like, it was indeed the torture that coerced Izual to give up heaven's secrets.

If you have any other sources which document Izual's role in the soulstones, the Dark exile, and heaven's betrayal, could you please share? I mean if its too tedious, then just point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance bro. :thumbup:

 

[Krugar]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

Let's see...

Izual's tale is mentioned, IIRC, in books 1 and 2 of the Sin War trilogy. It's been a while since I last read them and I really don't feel like digging them out and search for passages.

However I do advise you to get the trilogy, Ouroboros. I'm not a big fan of Richard's writing. Even though I love fantasy books since I was a kid, Richard's writing always seemed too artificial to me. I guess I feel he lacks a distinctive personal writing style and the reading ends up too clean and unpersonalized. Solely my opinion. But just so that you have an idea, Dragonlance was probably my favorite AD&D setting. And yet, I didn't enjoy the books.

However everything and then some more you will ever want to know about Diablo's lore is in the trilogy -- along with the previous two other books (although the Sin Wars are way much more interesting reading, since they establish the world's myth).

 

[Zeek]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

This could well be from which point of view the tale of Izual is told. If heaven is writing history surely they'll say that Izual was corrupted and forced to reveal secrets. If Hell is telling the tale it will be that the foolish angels were tricked by Izual who voluntarily betrayed them.

The Izual we talk to is thoroughly on the side of hell. So, can he really be trusted? By the same token the Angels don't want to admit their mistakes so can they be trusted?

I guess it depends on whether the book is an omniscient narrator following the events of Izual's corruption or if it's telling the tale that everyone was told about Izual. Until D2 none of the humans or angel's would likely have heard that Izual betrayed heaven on purpose. Theoretically this was a secret eh divulged to us.

 

[ohnoyellowdinosaur]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

stuff

I think what you guys are forgetting is that Izual is an angel. Whether or not he did it through his free will, he probably holds himself to a very high standard. If he was even ABLE to be corrupted, maybe he feels that his heart was in the wrong place even before?

 

[sicilian]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

Going back to the Diablo lore, this happens constantly and one of the reasons the Hells haven't invaded Sanctuary yet may be tied to the fact Belial and Azmodan have been (or had been) fighting the Prime Evils for control of the Hells.

And possibly because Belial and Azmodan are constantly fighting each other for control of Hell. I believe somewhere in the lore it described that almost as soon as the Three were exiled, Hell erupted in a civil war between the two to decide who was the prime ruler.

Plot device just popped into my head... Belial, either disguised or under false piety (he IS the Lord of Lies) enlists you to defeat Azmodan, claiming the Lord of Sin has conquered Hell and unleashed it upon Sanctuary. Then, once Azmodan is defeated, Belial claims the throne of Hell for himself.

 

[GuardianHadriel]

Re: Side switching between light and dark

there are no famous or great demons that has switched side or become good but i do think some have become good, and in most cases because of fear, but that´s almost entirely speculation...:whistling: