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Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by CCCenturion, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. CCCenturion

    CCCenturion IncGamers Member

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    Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    One of the biggest drawbacks to using 2 handers in Diablo games so far is that you lose a few slots for magic affixes. Magic items in D2 could have 2 affixes, whether they took one or two hands to use. Similarly for rare items, crafted items, and even uniques usually had around the same number of affixes.

    Of course, 2-handers could do more damage, but that benefit is already balanced by the fact that when you use a 1-handed weapon you get the added defense of a shield. But should that still be a consideration in how many mods an item can get?

    For the sake of variety, I'd like to see more characters using two-handed swords, spears, poleaxes, and battle axes. I think that giving 2-handers more mods is the way to make this happen.
     
  2. Daerius

    Daerius IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    Actually, the main reason 2-handers in D2 were rare, was because you lost out on the 75% chance to block.

    If they really want people to use 2-handed weapons, they will either reduce the block chance with a shield, or implement the chance to block or parry with a 2-handed weapon.

    I hate to make a WoW comparison, but 2 handed weapons in WoW get about as much stat bonuses as two single-handed weapons, so there is that.
     
  3. Hector

    Hector IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    Yes. The extra damage of a 2-hander usually does not compensate for the loss of a shield or extra mods.

    In the case of Bows, two solutions would be viable. Either increase number of possible modifiers or make arrows/bolts spawn as magical/rare/uniques. I certainly wouldn't mind a stack of unique arrows with stuff like leech, IAS, Replenishes Quantity, Increased Stack Size [1,000], lol... :cloud9:
     
  4. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    2h weapons should have the same item budget as 1h + shield or 1h + 1h, for obvious reasons.
     
  5. Daerius

    Daerius IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    Jumping the gun, are we? :whistling:
     
  6. a black kid

    a black kid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    yea, but he's jumping the LOGIC gun... so even if he ends up being wrong, no one will fault him for it.

    (for the record, i also feel the game would feel weird without someone that used bows)



     
  7. theeliminator

    theeliminator Well-Known Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    No he isn't, Bows are already in the game and Barbs can already use them.


     
  8. Daerius

    Daerius IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    Ah, I stand corrected. Although a bow wielding barb does not a bowyer make.

    I too hope for a ranged physical class, but staying on topic, It's a bit early to question the mods on a weapon designed for a class we don't know the mechanics of.
     
  9. RWHEEZY

    RWHEEZY IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    or 2 handers could get a bonus to reduce an enemy's blocking %. I mean if you're swinging a freaking hammer with two hands onto a shield, the guy holding the shield is going to have a hell of a time blocking and keeping balance....just saying
     
  10. Funkopotamus

    Funkopotamus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    Mod-wise, I think the only thing you're missing out with a 2 hander is variety. At the core, you're going to be aiming for the same mods either way, right?
     
  11. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    I'd say not persé more but "better", same as with higher level items.


     
  12. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    Technically, it's the same thing. Whether a sword has 10 strength or 5 strength + 5 vitality doesn't change the total amount of stats it has.


     
  13. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    Funny because if we are in fact talking "technically" it is not the same at all.
    Or are you arguing that "technically" a sword with a maximum of one magical attribute, lets say 100 strength, is the same (remember, "technically") as a sword with 10 different magical attributes where each one can only be as strong as one tenth of the one attribute sword? This is all based on the fact that technically we never agreed on the total amount of stats any given item can have being the only factor to technically differentiate one item from another.

    Why am i even explaining this?


     
  14. Darkflight

    Darkflight IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    That depends on how each stat is valued. In WoW stamina has a lower value then strenght for instance, so for each point of strenght on an item there could be something like 1.2 stamina.



     
  15. Kromp

    Kromp IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    That's only the case because they needed to explicitly change the itemization formula going from WoW 1.0 to the first expansion, because they felt that hit point pools weren't scaling appropriately. It's still kind of a mystery to me why they didn't just increase the hit points granted by stamina, even if it would affect pre-expansion content in a minor way. Ironically, since they keep stacking more and more offensive stuff (i.e. talents and skills) on top of the existing pile, without ever boosting defensive stuff, they're in the same situation as of the second expansion that they were in initially.

    In any case, they should attempt to maintain equal valuation of stats, and modify the interpretation of those stats as appropriate.


     
  16. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    In terms of the total amount of stats, yes. You're granted the same amount of stat points, whether you put all 100 points into one stat (strength) or spread them out equally among ten different stats. More stats and higher values of said stats are the same under these simplified conditions. Whether you, as a player, prefer one over the other is irrelevant.

    The number and magnitude of an item's stats are pretty much all there is to an item. If you can come up with a way to differentiate items from each other that has nothing to do with an item's stats or graphical appearance, feel free to list it. Sockets, weapon speed and skills requiring the use of specific weapons are not valid answers because the former two are variations of item statistics and the latter is a case of the skill forcing the use of a weapon, not the other way around.

    WoW's item budget system is complicated because not only do different stats have different costs in the system (e.g. 1 stamina = 2/3 strength), each stat's cost increases exponentially the more of it you stack on one item. My example doesn't translate very well into WoW terms and, more importantly, it doesn't really need to, since the WoW system was not created with randomized items in mind because there simply aren't any randomized items in WoW.

    When I previously said I wanted 2h weapons to have the same item budget as a combination of two 1h items, I meant the total amount of randomized stats available. For instance, dual-wielding rare 1h weapons should give you a total of 2-6 + 2-6 stats, whereas wielding a rare 2h weapon should give 4-12. I am not familiar with whether or not D3 barbarians can wield 2h weapons in one hand, so I don't view that as a concern yet.


     
  17. Srikandi

    Srikandi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    Theoretically at least, there's a third case: a character that uses a single one-hand weapon ONLY, because there's no suitable offhand item for their class or build. I suppose Blizz is likely to avoid this case by offering an offhand to every build, but this does lead IMO to some silliness: orbs, books, relics, and other types of non-weapon offhands that exist just to fill in the slot. These tend to look kinda dumb; something a character wouldn't naturally be carrying in their left hand during a swordfight.

    I'd prefer to see a one-hand weapon that, say, doubled its stats in the case where no offhand is being used ;)
     
  18. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    Bows *were* in the game, since one dropped in the WWI demo. None have ever been seen since, and they certainly weren't dropping in either year's Blizzcon build. I assume, like everyone else, that there will be bows and that the 5th char will specialize in their use. But it's still an assumption, and could be wrong.



     
  19. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    As for *more* mods on 2H weapons, that's not necessarily the only way to go about it.

    • There could be skills that only worked with 2H weapons that had bigger bonuses. Or that had bigger bonuses with 2H weapons.
    • 2H weapons could have inherent magical properties, on top of their greater damage. Say they all include +defense, or +hit recovery, etc.
    • 2H weapons could have higher caps on the individual stats. e.g. Cruel = 250-400% damage on a 2H, but 200-300% on a 1H.
    • Or 2H weapons just have access to the next higher level of mods, the way magicals had that over rares in earlier versions of D2.
    • Or all stats on a 2H are automatically boosted by say 25-50%.
    • Or there are bonus stats that can only spawn on 2H weapons.
    • Or 2H weapons have substantially more sockets.
    That's all about melee type 2H weapons. How about caster weapons? Staves are virtually unused in D2 since they can never compare with 1h + shield bonuses + block. Adding some/all of the above, plus more potential mods on 2H caster weapons, would be a potential way to go.

    Note that I'm not even sure we'll see 2h staves in D3. There were short staves in the blizzcon build, and while the wizard couldn't dual wield them, or use a shield with them, when I found an orb I was able to equip it along with the short staff. That might just be how it goes in D3, eliminating the whole issue of 2h caster weapons.
     
  20. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost IncGamers Member

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    Re: Should 2 handed weapons get more mods?

    I think the monk is using 2h staves, or at least very similar weapons.


     

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