Shadow Master viable in Hell?

sacmb8

Diabloii.Net Member
Shadow Master viable in Hell?

How tough is the Shadow Master in Hell? I know the Amazon's Valkyrie is tough as nails. At what level do you need the SM to last more than a few seconds in Hell?

Thx in advance
 

BaNiSeR

Diabloii.Net Member
my lvl 24 SM lasts longer than my HF merc who is lvl 78 and fairely well equiped

IMO max shadow master is the only way to go. while she doesnt have the D/E/A like the valk, she has access to every assasin attack which makes her stronger for me.
 

sr126

Diabloii.Net Member
true, my shadow is up to lvl33.

over 2200life. +74 to resist (doesn't suffer from penalties)
very durable. i usually have to cast her once in a game.
other than that, only iron maiden can take her down.

i love my shadow, it's pretty rare when i revive my merc... what for?
 

RTB

Diabloii.Net Member
Let's take a look at the stats.

Base stats:
376 life
196 defense
50% block chance (don't think this is used, problably because of a lack of a blocking anim, she has Weapon Block though IIRC)
163 AR in normal
243 AR in NM
323 AR in hell
40% damage resist

Per Slvl the Shadow Master gets:
+40% ar
+10 strength
+10 dex
+15% life

The simplified formula for her resists is:
Resist all = (82.5 * Slvl) / (Slvl + 6) + 5, rounded down

The base casting cost is 35 mana and per Slvl 0.5 (rounded down) is added to the casting cost.

The Slvls for her skills are already known, find the formula at the Assassin FAQ.

The assassin players here can give their opinions about the power of SMs, I don't know about using her too much... My kicker is not high lvl enough yet.
 

Ossar

Diabloii.Net Member
Why Shadow Master? Why not Shadow Warrior? Then you have more control over what to use your Shadow for.
 

BaNiSeR

Diabloii.Net Member
its personal preferance really.

i go master because that way she can do things i cant do, IE kill lightning immunes for my trapsin, and kill PI's for my kicker

if i had a worrior on my trapsin, all she could do is normal attack and cast LS/DS when i do, and whats the point of that when only 5 traps can be out :)
 

Starkey

Diabloii.Net Member
shadow is viable now well i think so, blizzard have seem to given her a brain this time not like 1.09 where she do her own thing mainly cast mind blast but 1.10 she does everything and she can last longer now real good tank
 

Super5

Diabloii.Net Member
I only have a couple things to say about the shadow master. She can last a long time, but she doesn't kill things very well in hell. I think one reason this is the case is that she makes decisions so slowly. The AI isn't fast (not nearly as fast as most monsters - probably because she has such a variety of actions to choose from), so I've often seen a shadow use cobra strike, wait half a second or more, then use cobra strike again, wait again, then use tiger strike, wait, etc., etc. This makes here very slow at taking out enemies, since her primary killing power is MA skills (unless you're a trapsin, in which case her traps can be quite powerful). I've also noticed she casts traps a lot faster than she attacks, i.e., the AI 'decision' to use traps and what kind is much more rapid than the decision to use MA skills and which one. She also doesn't acquire more than 4-6 charges before releasing them. Probably because they would expire before use, since the shadow doesn't act very quickly. I've also seen a SM frequently let charges expire, even when there was an enemy to use them on. IMO, the Shadow AI is very poor when it comes to martial arts skills, but her toughness in general usually makes up for this.
 

Sv_Lorax

Diabloii.Net Member
Shadow master is a must in my opinion. Not only is she one heck of a tank but she is not too bad for killing either. My sin is a trap variation and not only does she lay down awesome traps but can tank even the toughest of bosses. The other great thing about her is that if you are attcking a monster she will attack the same thing. It's a one track mind of hers... good and bad. The pros for this is when you have a swarm and a boss. If you are attacking the boss she will pop in from wherever she is on the map (ie. through walls, accross pits) and tele-kick onto your target. I find that this is not as helpful when you aren't worried about one monster rather than 20 though. It would be nice if her AI was as fast as the monsters but for the tanking ability alone she is worth all 20 points in every build I make. In fact, she is often the first thing I will max, almost all the time. Shadow Warrior is much less of a tank (I tried it once and had to delete a lev 60+ sin for wasting all those points). Talk about a waste of points (in my opinion). Warrior of course only does what you do and the problem with that is obvious. If you are a trapper, you want a tank, and if you are a martial artist then you want a trapper. Plus HP and resists don't go up in the same fashion (I think, can't remember). I do have problems once in a while with SM dying but it's very rare, like once an hour or so. When you think about it, that's one of the most pro-active ways to spend your mana in the whole game (as well as the Valk). So overall, in my opinion, SM is a great tool in every area of the game.
 

wildjinn

Diabloii.Net Member
I personally think that the Shadow Master is an incredible tank. I have found her killing power too slow for my tastes, but a high level one will almost never die, as some members have already posted. I haven't bothered using a Shadow Warrior, as I primarily play MA assassins and I much prefer an autonomous companion.

For an MA 'sin, I find her best used in combination with good tactics: CoS, Cast SM next to the pack, MB a bit, then wade in and attack the fringing enemies. If you do that properly, she'll last a long time (often longer than my merc) and you'll be able to attack almost completely unhindered.

From experience, I've found that a situational recast is good: if you have a good mob of monsters either CoSed or focused on your merc, casting your SM next to you will have her MB, cast a few traps, then wade into battle. If you cast her into the mob, she'll go hand-to-hand and divert a lot of attention from either you and your merc--useful either way.
 

Super5

Diabloii.Net Member
Starkey said:
And also fun to watch her go hard out on monsters
I don't know if she ever goes "hard out"... my vision of that would be like a MA sin building charges like crazy, and then frying an entire pack of monsters with a finisher. The shadow is slow at attacking, but she'll get the job done by herself if you wait long enough. Of course you'll be helping so it will be over a lot quicker than that ;) On the positive side, a high level SM is a really good tank as everyone has said. Kind of like the valk in that she practically never dies, but not too bright either :grrr:
 

det

Diabloii.Net Member
Super5 said:
... my vision of that would be like a MA sin building charges like crazy, and then frying an entire pack of monsters with a finisher.
Hmm..I enjoy beating the game myself, not watching My SM do it for me :lol:

Read somewhere that the longer she lasts, the more she "learns" Don't know if its true. Like she uses the attacks that you use at the start, then adds more and more stuff (like PS) and the more she uses it, the longer she lives, the more powerful it becomes.

I still keep adding to her, she is only lv 14 now and has a decent survival rate in hell.
 

det

Diabloii.Net Member
From Arreat Summit:

Shadow Warrior uses the skills you have selected. This allows you to control what kind of spells she will use.

The Shadow Master, the next minion, can cast spells that you do not have so consider this before spending many points in Shadow Warrior.

He will cast traps, even if you have none invested...like mine attacks with PS, where I have no points
 
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